The Family Research Council is justifiably outraged that in U.S.-liberated and U.S.-subsidized Afghanistan, people can be put to death for converting to Christianity.
But the pro-Israel, national-security journal The American Thinker notes that it isn’t just Christians who are being threatened with execution:
Homosexuality, “lesbianism,” and conversion to faiths such as Judaism or Buddhism are also punishable by death. Afghanistan may exemplify what can happen when voting majorities are permitted unmitigated control over so-called “democracies” and when individual rights are respected only at the majority’s leisure.
I share the FRC’s outrage at Islamic intolerance of Christians. But I am disappointed that the FRC apparently does not care enough about the lives of gay people and non-Christians to protest their execution.
The age old story…If I cannot convince you,I’m truly sorry but I’ll have to kill you(And all said with L-O-V-E Love!)The FRC would have more concern for us if we were in a womb.
I don’t think any believer in an Abrahamic religion has a right to be outraged by this. All the Abrahamic religions use threats of eternal torture to get people to go along with them – an eternity of torture is a greater crime than the temporary torture and ending of a life on earth.
The punishment should fit the crime and given hundreds, perhaps thousands of flavours of conflicting Abrahamic and other religions all claiming to be the absolute truth (and with the same easily forged “proof” to back it up) surely it is not much of a crime to be confused and pick the wrong one. Any religion that believes people are tortured eternally for that mistake has nothing to do with love.
David (Reasonable) contrary to what you told me several months ago “wave” offerings do involve waving meat at God:
Numbers 18:17-19
In my bible it says “this is a permanent contract between the Lord and you and your decendants.”. Yours may refer to “a covenant of salt”.
Numbers 19:17-21 in my bible also mentions sin sacrifice being part of a permanent law.
These so-called Christians at FRC are showing the public just exactly how Pharasaical, self-righteous and bigoted they are. In my book they are not true Christians but pseudo-Christians.
The public typically sees through their hypocrisy so I hope that their rantings and self-righteous complaining will continue to be exposed for what it truly is. Just let them continue being the bigots they are because it will all fall to pieces come election day this fall when the Democrats take back Congress.
Posted by: Randi Schimnosky at March 22, 2006 12:42 PM
Randi, to be honest I only vaguely remember the point of that discussion but I do seem to remember Raj being a big part of it which probably made most of it fruitless (sorry, but that’s just a fact). I have no problem with you pointing out the possible religious origins of the fears and frustrations of someone living under a theocratic rule as you have done here. It’s an important part of this story, though not exactly the point of the original post. What disturbs me are the occasions when you go much further into what can only be taken as a passionate assault on certain beliefs. You seem particularly taken with the idea of hell or eternal punishment, which leads me to believe that someone may have indeed pummeled you with such ideas at some point and really hurt you.
The bottom line is this, we all have the right to express such personal opinions but not necessarily here. That is what a personal blog is for, where one can be more open and raw, without necessarily worrying about the beliefs and feelings of the next guy. XGW needs to maintain the kind of mutual respect that is crucial to a civil dialog. You’ve made your personal disdain for these beliefs quite clear on many, many occasions. Let’s just give that a rest and go on with the insightful commentary which you otherwise tend to give.
David
David, I suspect most children raised as Christian feared the rath of an unpredictable all powerful and angry god and I am no different. Its ironic that the anti-gays talk about freedom from the bondage of “homosexuality” when I (and I’m sure many others) want to be freed from the bondage of threatening religion drilled into us when we were too young to assess truth. While I’m not 100% free from fear of the boogey man 100% of the time now that I’ve committed to putting fairness first I’m about as close to fearless as is possible for me. I’m not trying to simply show disdain, but to minimize the needless pain that spreading antagonistic beliefs causes. I’ll think again if I can do that without causing offense.
Randi said:
David, I suspect most children raised as Christian feared the rath of an unpredictable all powerful and angry god and I am no different.
Speaking for myself, I absolutely was not raised with that kind of fear – quite the opposite. Mass, generalized assumptions are not usually too accurate, no matter what the subject. While I am aware that there are those who do it, I would consider such terrorizing of a child to be abuse. I do not, however, consider it a necessary component of my faith by any means.
I’m not trying to simply show disdain, but to minimize the needless pain that spreading antagonistic beliefs causes.
Again Randi, you probably should blog about something over which you feel so passionate. I just don’t think that becoming an anti-[insert faith here] site is what XGW is about.
David
Its always hard to fully understand other’s experiences when they differ from our own. If you think about it though its probably not too surprising that there are people like me who’ve been scarred for life by psychological/religious terrorism when we were children. I am mystified as to how any child would completely avoid that in traditional society. I’d like to thank both my religious and non-religous family members for continuing to threaten me with hell. My favourite is the subtle version “Jesus loves you enough to not force you to be with him.” – funny concept of love. No doubt, I should have my own blog. I’m just such a technology hater though, I’m really resistant to change (still subconciously fighting childhood insecurity) and I haven’t figured out how to set up my own blog yet. Its probably not even a big deal…
Randi,
Believe me when I say that I am truly sorry (and even angry) that you have been subjected to that kind of treatment. There is nothing remotely Christ-like in that. Unfortunately, when people want to exercise control over you, that is the club they sometimes use. I only encourage you to accept that we are not all like that.
As for the blog, I’ve been told that Blogger is quite easy and the basic version is free. I’m sure if you take an evening to follow the easy steps on there that you would be up and running in no time. Good luck.
David
Thankyou David, and may I at least say that you and Timothy are fine ambassadors for your religion.
I’m often reminded of Chesterton (I think, but it may have been C.S. Lewis) who said that the best argument against Christianity is Christians.
You are not alone in your frustration and pain. Many Christians share your concern and observations, although they aren’t the ones invited to appear on Fox News these days.
I have the advantage of having a good friend who is also an ordained pastor in the UCC. I’ve told her that if more Christians acted like her, Christianity would have a much better reputation.
She (playfully) admonishes me for tempting her to the sin of pride.
My favorite bit about the Rahman story (not that it isn’t a clusterfarge of human cruelty and ignorance) was the US State Department flack who was obliged to state at a press conference that the Administration sees this trial as a sign of progress – under the Taliban, Rahman would simply have been put to death, but under Karzai’s government, he’s getting a trial! My job may bite sometimes, but at least I don’t have to say evil nonsense like that in public and pretend to believe it.
Robert,
The State Department seems to have made the same argument that Michael Marcavage (Repent America founder) used to justify his support of a federal death penalty for homosexuals.
He said that a federal death penalty is a just and Biblical alternative to disorganized mob lynchings.
It still amazes me that Exodus would defend Marcavage’s group in its advertising.
Marcavage is one of those people that makes me feel like I’m living next door to Iran. George Bush saying he was called by God doesn’t help either. Marcavage advocating death for gays (or any other group or person) would be a crime in Canada and I think apropriately so. I’ve never been able to understand why many Americans think that would be any kind of unreasonable imposition on free speech – in what specific situation is such a law going to cause more harm than good?
Randi Schimnosky at March 22, 2006 05:04 PM
Thank you, Randi. But I certainly don’t want you to judge Christianity based on me – I think I’d be a pretty faulty ambassador. I try, but I know that I demonstrate Christ’s message at a C- level at best.
🙂
Timothy Kincaid said:
Thank you, Randi. But I certainly don’t want you to judge Christianity based on me – I think I’d be a pretty faulty ambassador.
Timothy’s modesty aside (and I would tend to say the same of myself), if you must look to an example I’d still rather you look at us than whoever has been beating you over the head with that other stuff 😉
David
Yeah, I have to agree with you on that one David. I do feel tired and beat up by religion. I know irs nor accurate but religion and anti-gay have become equated in my emotional response. Its been my experience that if I have to be threatened into going along with something there probably aren’t good rational reasons why I should in the first place. I’ve been particularly on edge since I read Stacy Harp’s whining about how people ask her why she doesn’t mind her own business when it comes to “homosexuality”. She said sodomy becomes her business when its forced on her, her family, and her culture. I doubt she is actually going to confirm someone anally raped her or her family, she and her family are free to practice their culture however she wants, its her that wants to tell others how to live, not vice versa. She’s changed her site since then and seems to have toned it down but I only glanced at the new version.
My sweety read this thread and I discussed my recent anti-religious posts with him and we convinced me I’ve probably gone over the line and taken more than my fair share of exgaywatch’s soapbox for that purpose. I still waver a bit on that, whether what I’ve said is apropriate, but I can certainly see merit to both views although they’re quite a ways apart. Its a bit confusing and sometimes I wonder, am I crazy, or is it most of the world?
Posted by: Randi Schimnosky at March 23, 2006 06:08 PM
Why do you think grantdale tells me to go organize my sock drawer all the time? After I read a run of Stacy Harp or Exodus Blog, I get very edgy and combative. Their advice to me one time was to go do something mundane to let it wear off (like organizing socks or working in the garden). If you expect to read that stuff without a negative reaction, forget it – you are supposed to get a negative reaction to hate. The challenge is not to let those people color your view of others.
Listen, I’ve been in some of the most run of the mill, Southern Baptist churches you will find and the people I know there, many of them would see right through Stacy. They may not all agree with homosexuality, but they know when someone is full of themselves. Trust me, it’s not just you.
David
The snow was starting to melt today and I managed to get outside and do some sandblasting and welding. I feel better but the manly activity isn’t making me want to revert to male yet, maybe I should tell Exodus.
I often wonder what on earth is with supposed heterosexuals like Stacy Harp. I can understand how a same sex attracted person might give in to society’s rejection and be strongly anti-gay as a crutch to deny his/her own same sex attractions, but why would any true heterosexual be so obessessed as to put in the time and effort Stacy does to minimizing gays? If a gay’s biggest crime is having the audacity to exist in her thoughts why give in and become obessesed with them? I still think a lot of straight identified people like her are fighting to ignore their own same sex attractions. The hate and anger helps them avoid concious awarness of feelings unacceptable to themselves because they mean social rejection. I think a complete heterosexual just couldn’t be that concerned with condeming something that doesn’t affect them.
Randi Schimnosky at March 23, 2006 11:39 PM
“I still think a lot of straight identified people like her are fighting to ignore their own same sex attractions. The hate and anger helps them avoid concious awarness of feelings unacceptable to themselves because they mean social rejection. I think a complete heterosexual just couldn’t be that concerned with condeming something that doesn’t affect them.”
We’ve long known that one of the biggest contributors to homophobia results from the battles that rage inside us before we come to terms with our own sexuality. Although with the changes in society this seems to be diminishing, most of us who are in our 30’s or older have gone though some point in which we ridiculed gay people in an effort to fight – or deflect attention from – our own desires and attraction.
However, I don’t think it correct to automatically assume that anyone obsessed with gay people is themself a “latent homosexual”. Some of these folk are self-declared culture warriors and view us as an enemy to be defeated and destroyed. Just as many anti-abortion activists are not secretly wishing for an abortion, so too many anti-gay activists (often the same people) are not secretly harboring gay inclinations.
This isn’t to suggest that Stacy L Harp doesn’t have some serious emotional issues. Anyone expending so much energy to harm the lives of others – who are not in any way harming her – obviously has problems. And anyone so driven by hatred that they expend the time that she gives to seek to diminish others through lies, deceit, and cruelty surely isn’t coming from a rational place.
But her’s may be more general insecurities, frustrations, martyr complexes or perhaps mania rather than a sign of secret lesbian inclinations.
Timothy, I guess that’s possible, but I think unlikely. I’ve got $50 that says Stacy enjoys lesbian sex with me more than she enjoys straight sex with her husband.