In her final TV interview, taped Wednesday and aired Thursday on CNN, Tammy Faye Messner didn’t declare that she knew God’s will. She didn’t excuse her own fallibility or pass selective judgment against others. And she didn’t order up a set of litmus tests for would-be followers to pass in order to win divine approval.
True to her lifelong calling, Messner spoke of a personal faith and unconditional love. As she was dying, she said, “I talk to God every single day. And I say, God, my life is in your hands and I trust you with me.”
Her son Jay Bakker struggled with religion for years after Jerry Falwell and other conservative Christians effectively excommunicated his family following scandals in the late 1980s. In recent years, Bakker was disinvited from a speaking engagement at Exodus International’s annual ex-gay convention in 2005 due to his affirmation of same-sex-attracted persons and his then-nascent support for their right to marry. Falwell, his family’s now-deceased nemesis, keynoted that Exodus conference.
Of Bakker’s ministry among society’s outcasts, some of whom have have tattoos and body piercing like his, Messner said:
I think it’s wonderful. I don’t think God cares what you put in your body or on your body. And he is just doing fantastic.
A world that sometimes heaped scorn upon Messner for her makeup learned in 2000 that she had a wonderfully self-deprecating sense of humor — as well as an axe to grind against Jerry Falwell — when she became the subject of a documentary, The Eyes of Tammy Faye.
She reminded the public again of her humor in her final CNN interview:
KING: …An e-mail from Jane in Ashburn, Virginia: Tammy Faye — “If you could have people remember you for one thing, what would it be?”
T.F. MESSNER: Well, my eyelashes.
(LAUGHTER)
T.F. MESSNER: No.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: You’ve still got that humor.
T.F. MESSNER: Well, I walk with the lord. I think people need to know that there’s great peace and joy in knowing the lord — the lord Jesus Christ as your savior. I have a prayer partner. Her name is Deb — Deborah Keener (ph). And she’s with me right now. And she’s doing the hospice work. And we pray together constantly. We pray for you. We pray for your family. And we pray for many other people.
Unlike many evangelicals — including ex-gay leaders — who seem to lose their prophetic voice and their ability to express compassion where same-sex-attracted persons and sexual struggle are concerned, Messner remained unflinching:
KING: We have an e-mail question from Jimmy, Sherman Oaks, California: “Unlike many of your Christian contemporaries, you have been a very positive influence in the gay community. Why do you think you found it in your heart to love and accept us?”
T.F. MESSNER: Well, you know when I went — we lost everything — it was the gay people that came to my rescue and I will always love them for that.
Jay Bakker told Larry King that he cherishes what he learned from a lifetime with Messner:
BAKKER: I’ve learned a ton from my mom. She stood up for people when it wasn’t popular. She had one of the first people in the early ’80s on Christian Television with AIDS. I mean Reagan didn’t even mention the word AIDS during the ’80s and here my mom was talking about it on Christian Television.
She had one of the first MCC pastors, which is the first gay denomination. She did an interview with them and always that she might not have agreed on everything with them, she loved them and built a bridge. And I just had a huge conference for MCC and hundreds of people just said, your mom built the bridge between Christianity and homosexuality and we love her and pray for her every day.
And, to me, that’s — you know, she will not be forgotten not just by the gay community but all communities. The people really have loved her because she’s never changed when people tried to make her change. And she always stood up for the underdog and for those who were hurting.
Lest anyone think Messner was grandstanding for attention, author Deepak Chopra emphasized that Messner was peacefully coping with death and constructively facing a future that many people would honestly fear:
CHOPRA: Well, again, she’s connected. She’s connected to her relatives. She’s connected to her children. She’s connected to actually her fans even at this moment. And she has the ability to crack a joke. You know that’s an extraordinary ability to have humor in the face of stepping out into the unknown at this moment.
King asked Bakker whether the process of dying had changed Messner:
KING: Has this ending, coming ending, changed her, Jay?
BAKKER: Well, it’s where the rubber has hit the road. You know she has always talked about you can make it and you know God’s not through using you, all this kind of encouragement. And what it’s done is it’s caused her to put it into effect. And she’s taken all this positive — I mean I can’t believe it. I can’t believe how positive she stays.
She’s had a few moments here and there where she said she was scared or she was worried. But really she’s just like, we’ve got to keep living, keep going, and she’s really — you know, if anything has changed about her, it’s just her wanting to know how much she loves people and that’s why she came on this show is because she wanted people to know how much she loves her fans and all those people, too, and how much she loves you, Larry.
When people learn that they or a loved one is dying, many may blame God. King asked whether Messner struggled with blame.
KING: Why doesn’t she blame God, Jay?
BAKKER: Well, I mean, I’m sure that there’s been times in her quiet moments where she’s asked God why. We all do. We all like to blame God for things. But we also know we live in a fallen world and a world that’s full of disease and all sorts of things, and that’s just part of humanity. So it’s so easy to blame God for everything. But instead of blaming God, we just try to trust God, you know.
Messner offered a final message to well-wishers:
I’d like to say that I genuinely love you, and I genuinely care, and I genuinely want to see you in heaven some day. I want you to find peace. I want you to find joy.
Her favorite Bible verse for finding peace and enduring adversity happened to be a verse that eschews conformity and instead affirms the value of every unique person:
Romans 8:28. “For we know that all things work together for good to those who love God and those that are called according to his purpose.”
Messner died Friday morning and was cremated Saturday. Her death, at age 65, was publicly announced Saturday evening. A public ceremony is being planned.
Addenda: Media coverage of Messner’s last days
Video excerpt: CNN interview of Messner and Bakker, 19 July 2007, via YouTube
Video report: Access Hollywood remembers Messner
Remembrance: MSNBC’s Alex Johnson puts Messner’s role in past scandals in perspective
It is weird. This morning I said that I thought she had passed away–this is before the news. I had a long discussion about her. Yes, she was silly in many ways; yes, she did not seem that bright. However, I thought she was fairly genuine in a ministry world where many are fake. I believe she loved everyone, and I admire her for her tough stances. She got to know people. I was sad when I found out that she did die. At least she stood out from the very generic pack of evangelical leaders that run the world. Her son Jay is a very nice, honest, open guy (who I told just two months ago that I wished the best for his mother)–and if I was not agnostic, I would want to join a church like his. I suggest everyone watch One Punk under God because his ministry seems very Christlike to me. It is the total spirit of Christ.
I hope gay people fill up the pews at her services. I hope we show that there is mutual love–she was one of the only Christian leaders to really reach out to AIDS patients and not show fear. We owe her respect. She was a small person with a checkered past, but she made an impact on many. Falwell probably had more people at his funeral, but I suspect that Tammy’s funeral will have more color, love, and hope than any Christian leader can have. Thanks for posting the story.
Amen!
I have been praying for Tammy Faye for months, as she finally said she was not going to take chemo anymore.
Aaron, everything you said is so true. Tammy Faye had such a backbone, given everything she went through. What I loved about her is she wasn’t above joking about herself, her trademark eye-lashes, make-up, etc. At the same time, I always felt that she was genuine in her love and concern for others, even during the horrible time she went through after the PTL club scandals.
I was amazed at her final interview with Larry King. Her physical appearance shocked me–as it did many–but she had such a strong dignity about her, and she really seemed at peace with everything.
What a shining example of a true Christian. Her love of the gay community is an example of how she took what Jesus taught to heart, when many of her brothers and sisters in the evangelical community spit on us.
She was one tough lady, with enough pain to last a lifetime, but she forged ahead with a smile on her face and a spirit that will transcend time.
She will be missed, but I am happy that she is at peace and with her Lord.
The life of Christ in us as believers was as unique in Tammy Faye as it was meant to be! (Galatians 2:20)She proved the nature of God the Father by her love for all men. She had a beautiful spirit in Christ and showed it to everyone she met. The Father’s love is not exclusive to people who fit into a certain mold that man creates, but rather depends upon our belief in Christ as Savior. God bless her family and friends as they walk through their loss.
Thank you for honoring Tammy Faye with this article. I was a teenager when the Bakkers were at their peak and then during the scandals. I remember that they were the only television evangelists who not only did not say that AIDS was God’s punishment of homosexuality, but actively sought to help educate and to preach love and genuine compassion during those awful years. Especially as a teenager, that meant very much to me. I will remember Tammy Faye for her genuine love. Unlike many self-proclaimed Christians who claim to love LGBT people (but who we know really do not), Tammy Faye’s example was the litmus test: she did not seek to impose her religious beliefs on our community and everyone else through the law – she respected the boundaries of religious freedom. Jay’s ministry gives me great hope for the future. He exhibits not only his mother’s love, but also her courage.
I met Tammy Faye herself, several years ago at a church in Hollywood. The Gateway. Tammy had her husband along, and an amazing gospel singer, Dottie Rambo who sang several of her signature songs for us.
What a great night! And all because a sixteen year old friend of mine, had come all the way from NM to see her there.
Tammy Faye had an altar call, and Josiah didn’t want to go up without me. So I went.
Tammy Faye put her hands on my head, and reached way up to touch Josiah’s head.
She told me I had a beautiful glow, she wasn’t sure what it was, but she loved it. And she kissed Josiah and told him he was stronger than he thought and she could tell he was close to his mother.
Very prophetic, as it turns out.
The thing is, some other showbiz friends of mine were there. Lots of homeless folks, young folks with tattoos and piercings. Transgendered and just plain off the wall.
Tammy Faye and Dottie, were showing the love.
And I enjoyed the rest of the congregation as much as the folks leading the service.
Mostly because everyone was so different and interesting.
And one homeless mother, and her little boy just broke my heart. I think of them all the time since. The church closed it’s doors sad to say.
Tammy Faye left us quite a legacy in her son Jaye. He’s being very brave, like his mom…in the face of those who persecute.
Just like Jesus himself.
And Roe Messner is a handsome affectionate man, and he’s been right there as accepting and welcoming as his wife.
May she rest in peace. She’s given us all a good time, and another way of showing what faith in God, and compassion really means.
When I hugged her, she felt like a little bird. Fly on, Tammy.
And thank you….
Tammy,
As I sit and remember when I was younger and watched the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker Show, I recall the sincerity that literally poured from your spirit. I am not naive as to ignore the scandal that followed. However, As I remember you now, I only recall how warm and loved you made me feel then, and now. May the grace of our Lord Jesus abide with you now, hence forth, and forever more Tammy. Tell Jesus that I said hello and I’ll look for you somewhere around the throne of God soon. I am so happy for you. Rest now, in the Lord forever… Amen.
Yours in Christ, Carol
The gay community has lost a powerful ally. I will miss her. I am glad she is not in pain anymore … flying high with the Lord.
Amazing is the beauty the crisp clean air that surrounds me your lushes greens and purple majesty raises my awareness of what a beautiful and wonderful creation.
God bless you Tammy Faye Baker. You will always hold a special place in my heart.
From Tammy:
R.I.P.
Franc….thanks for that! I LOVE it! That’s SO her…and was she right!
haha, i dont even know her work or her voice very well – but somehow that sounds exactly like something she would say and think about. I think it’s that simplicity that everyone finds so endearing. I would think she has a place close to God where she is now.
I love this woman and her family. Her son Jay Bakker continues to preach the TRUE GOSPEL which is unconditional love. Her memory will live on.
God Bless
i loved tammy and when i seen her on larry king i was moved and i prayed for her.
May God bless this family and continue to bless the gay people because God wants u to be saved and not die and go to hell.