In what continues to be a surprisingly visceral response to the recent testimonies of Ex-Gay Survivors, Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX) has placed an open letter to all such people on their MySpace page.
While you all claim in websites, protests, in organizations, or coalitions, to want to help people who are “trapped in the ex-gay movement,” you seem to be more concerned with sticking your nose in my business, and telling me the way you think I should live, along with who I am. You don’t know me, and you don’t know my needs and wants. While you go on and on with slogans like “I survived the ex-gay movement,” it’s actually the groups like you that make it harder for us to “survive” if anything. Thanks to you and your biased, inaccurate, and false claims, you’ve managed to help our existence fall below the radar. [Emphasis Added]
That last line sounds odd, but perhaps is telling of what this emotional response is about. As for the rest, indeed much of this letter, it could easily be reversed as a response to the nearly 10 years of activity by PFOX against GLBT people.
The only thing that your organizations tell me is that because of some bad experiences you all had in the past, you’ve decided to carry your bitterness over to people like me, and try to rub it in my face, along with everyone else who desires change. Your pain and hurt, along with your frustration is extremely evident, and I’m sorry you had some bad experiences, but again, please respect the fact that I along with several other people have changed our lives.
Again, the anger is extraordinary considering the rather docile, heartfelt testimonies made by those to whom this letter is written. Compare them to the “Diary of an Ex-Gay Man” post, which seems more like a contrivance of PFOX views than anything else. The reference to “several other people who have changed our lives” was refreshing, however.
Your attempts to get what you and you only want don’t scare me, nor do your lies and false accusations. If I want to change, that’s my business. Who are you to tell me who I am or how I should live? You know what? You’re no one. So get a life stay outta my business!
It’s one of the most significant surprises of the recent Ex-Gay Survivor activities — the intensity of the angry responses by ex-gays, far beyond any I have seen in response to the most aggressive protest. What do you suppose this means?
I bet a paycheck that soon there will be press releases and articles in publications like One News Now, as well as interviews on religious right radio shows with “ex gays” talking in “emotional ” and “heartfelt” tones about how the ex-ex-gays are “attacking” them and trying to “weaken their resolve.”
In other words, this sounds like the beginning of a media campaign.
My favorite part is the use of the word “supposedly”, as in, “supposedly tried to ‘change’.” Oh, and that civil closure! The hell of it is, if they’re really “no one,” they shouldn’t bother this writer at all.
And of course, can’t the point of ex-gay organizations (and groups like PFOX) be stated as “because of some bad experiences you all had in the past, you’ve decided to carry your bitterness over to people like me, and try to rub it in my face…”? The leaders and speakers, at least, mostly try to show why LGBTs need to change, after all.
I find the defensiveness on the part of ex-gays to be curious. Over at http://www.beyondexgay.com Christine Bakke and I have been clear about our message.
On our home page we say,
“We believe that ex-gay experiences cause more harm than good. Certain people who currently identify as ex-gay say they are content as such. We dont seek to invalidate their experience. For us such a lifestyle was not possible or healthy.
Not that it was all bad: Some of us received positive help through our ex-gay experiences. We grew to understand our sexuality better and in some cases even overcame life-controlling problems.
But for most of us, these experiences brought us inner turmoil, confusion, and shame. We are still in a process of recovery from the damage. Through sharing our stories with each other, we find wholeness and healing.”
In other words this isn’t about current ex-gays (although current ex-gay leaders may be interested in our experiences if they have a heart for the people who have been under their care.)
I understand the ex-gay life is not easy. Ex-gay individuals do not always get the support they need from the church or thoughtful understanding from many gays and lesbians without ex-gay experiences.
I do not seek to pick on ex-gays, but simply to share my experience and to encourage others to share their own. If this happens to threaten or challenge someone in regards to their own life choices, perhaps they need to explore that discomfort and pray about it to determine its source.
Wow!!! Would there be an exgay watch or exgay concerns if groups like PFOX did not think that we all have to follow suit? Groups that are political are the ones that come under fire because they stick their noses in other people’s business. We are told that our attractions are from mental illness and separation from God. We are told that with bile that our loves and relationships are not real. We are told that we can’t have a fully satisfying life unless we succumb to their way of thinking.
If they want to change, great–keep it their business and don’t generalize to all gay people. Allow true choice. The anger and statements suggest that exgay group movements are falling apart, but maybe it is not “us,” the exgay survivors. Maybe the general public is understanding that there is no magical, mystery cure awaiting them for deep-seated feelings, straight or gay. Maybe people are realizing that there is nothing threatening or scary about being gay. Maybe parents are realizing that their kids are still their kids and can live terrific, successful lives if the kids turn out gay.
PFOX can tell my friends, the sick and the dead who believed hollow promises of change, that exgay groups did nothing to lead to their ultimate conclusions. PFOX can give actual statistics of true change and success rather than rounded out figures and ghostly testimonies.
Freedom cuts both ways–you want freedom then fight for gay and exgay rights. Trust me–if PFOX states clearly that gay people should have the same rights as everyone, there will be no need for ex-ex-gay stories to counterbalance their message.
The “supposedly” also struck me as funny. I have heard people say, “Well, you did not have enough faith” or “you did not try hard enough.” Maybe true change was never fully defined.
The ex-gay survivors’ testimonies must be resonating somehow. It’s like Chambers’ attitude (paraphrased); ‘so what if you were hurt, just get on with your life…‘ And the ever classic; ‘where’s my apology.’
The claim of injury is again perceived as an attack. The whole thing is pure projection:
^Almost one per paragraph, and then there’s this:
Ex-gay survivor testimony is taken as being purposfully projected on to all those who identify as ex-gay. Absurd.
Do they really see the world as being made up of only liars like themselves with nefarious intent, or do they consciously decide to accuse us and ex-gay survivors of doing to them what they are doing to us?
Maybe the only people who are qualified and/or capable of running and speaking for orgs like PFOX are the ones whose defense mechanisms are so prolific that they are able to turn their consciences on and off at will.
Stay out of our lives???
One can almost wish to hear Catherine Tate’s Nan Taylor replying to that on our behalf! (and if you don’t mind reading rude words, it’ll be the first catch phrase in the list).
But what do we suppose this all means?
Simply: these are brittle, insecure, and abusive people who cannot cope with a new situation: namely, that their “failures” are no longer prepared to remain broken and silent.
Interestingly, these ex-ex-gays have not spoken in such ugly and violent terms.
But I wouldn’t turn the other cheek to PFOX — they’d willingly slap that as well.
Here’s a guess at what that perplexing last “fall below the radar” line might mean.
What if the recent actions of the dos equis have caused a change in the perceived importance of the ex-gay cause at the rich umbrella organizations like Focus on the Family?
I’ve long suspected that the right wing fundamentalists were most interested in Exodus-style movements because they countered the argument that because homosexuality is an innate and unalterable behavior any inequality in the way gays are treated is bigotry.
Sure, there was some occasional fallout from the way these ministries behaved, but the net effect was a plus; Dobson, et al, gained more from maintaining the argument, “they can change” than they lost from the occasional revelation of cruel treatment or history of failures.
But by making this debate public, with the media’s love of turning every issue into a bi-polar confrontation, these ministries now become controversial issues in their own right, raising the question that they are the 21st century versions of electroshock therapy.
Perhaps these mea culpas from former ex-gay leaders have focused public attention on these ministries as yet one more example of the fundamentalist community raising money through its message of intolerance and bigotry; perhaps pop culture is starting to see them as just one more attempt to force religious mandates on secular society. That’s why the “shock therapy” and “huge amounts of money” line was included when it was clearly so out of place.
I posted a reply in the comments section, and put a copy at my blog.
I also am surprised by the intensity of the anger in the PFOX response, which doesn’t seem remotely descriptive of the conference. Even as one who leads an exgay ministry and has a very different perspective, I found the exexgay event (which I visited Saturday evening) to be presented in a respectful and gracious manner. The only bit of data that may explain some of the intensity is that the writer of the open letter may be relatively young, based on the “myspace” profile listing an age of 19.
That would be neat if they posted that Steve, it was right on target.
It’s pure drama, girlfriend…. DRAH-MAH!!
I agree.
I know this site trys to steer clear of “attacking” religion, but I’m not sure we can be accurate without at least identifying it.
The thing I find most claring in this letter and some of the other offensive/defensive responses from the ex-gay court, is the simple humanity of it. Where’s God? Don’t these organizations exist so gays won’t fry in hell for eternity? Don’t they believe they represent God/Jesus? Aren’t we the “enemy?” Aren’t those who follow God supposed to “love” their enemies? Isn’t love “patient, kind, takes no thought for itself”. Aren’t those who claim a relationship with God supposed to be the ones “turn[ing] the other cheek?”
What it “means” to this ex ex-gay is they are only people and God is not with them. At least, I see no evidence of “God” now or when I was involved with them. And if God is not with them, why do they exist?
What an ironic statement given that they stick their noses in our business, tell us the way they think we should live, along with who are all the time. The disproportionate emotional response says to me that the testimonies of ex-ex-gays are doing serious damage to their message. Ex-ex-gays need to remain a calm, cool but ever present voice in all this. Keep it up!
Oh, dear, the schoolyard bully has a bloody nose. Diddums.
“How dare you tell me how to live my life? Why do you project your bad experiences onto me? Why do you marginalise us and make us feel unsafe? This really hurts!”
Oh, does it now? Shucks. Now where did I put my sympathy again, I can’t seem to find it.
You could send that letter to Michael Glatze without changing more than 10 words. In fact I’m sure PFOX have gotten letters a lot like that. Maybe they echo them as a kind of post modern literary experiment. If so, it’s pretty cool. I sure found it eye-popping.
The weirdest thing is how badly this writer has misheard BXG. Where do they get this stuff?
“Who are you to tell me who I am or how I should live? You know what? You’re no one. So get a life stay outta my business!”
The guy invites you into his “business” when he posts his life story on the web as an example of the possibility and the desirability of change, but woe to those who beg to differ! If you wish to keep others out of your business, here’s an idea: don’t post a manufactured morality tale on the worldwide web.
His message is really, “I hate myself and unless you hate yourself too, I can’t hear what you’re saying.”
What an ironic statement given that they stick their noses in our business, tell us the way they think we should live, along with who are all the time.
And not only that, but many of them (and I know not all, I see you, Sonia) lobby in the political arena as well. They make their anti-gay opinions known in cities, states, and the federal government. As far as I know, no ex-ex-gay is lobbying to have ex-gay ministries made illegal, make life more difficult for ex-gays, ban ex-gays from meeting in schools and ex-gay literature from public libraries, invalidate ex-gays’ marriages, etc. They speak of a changeable lifestyle, as if religion (another protected status) is not changeable. They use their own experiences to “prove” that LGBT people don’t really need that job protection bill after all–I saw this with my own eyes in Orlando, with Alan Chambers and Randy Thomas.
Should any ex-ex-gays take a similar approach, I might have more sympathy for this letter-writer.
Oh, and Marybethyl, you make an awesome point! I actually blog, in part, to show what a bisexual life and a same-sex marriage can look like, because I hear so many myths, suppositions, and outright lies. Don’t tell me this person doesn’t have something of their own to prove–all bloggers do, even if it’s just to show off how cute their cat is.
One of my favorite lines from the PFOX letter:
Classic ex-gay attitude towards those who don’t change: “You must’ve done something wrong. It’s your fault it didn’t work. Try (pray) harder next time.”
I posted a reply in the comments section, and put a copy at my blog.
Well I didn’t see it when I looked a couple minutes ago. How…unsurprising…
This reminds me of a behavioral psychology phenomenon called “Extinction Burst.” This is where a reinforcer is removed but the organism continues to use old ways of attaining the reinforcement. The behavior actually becomes more pronounced until the behavior eventually extinguishes.
The reinforcement of the “peace of mind” people get through the their belief that Exodus angencies will help them gets removed when people tell their stories. The PFOX folks do not like to hear these stories and will work hard to quiet them so they can keep their “peace of mind” reinforcer.
I guess I expect it to get worse but eventually die down.
you seem to be more concerned with sticking your nose in my business, and telling me the way you think I should live, along with who I am.
and
I can only recommend that you try going about whatever you considered “change” in a different way, and next time, from what I’ve heard you say some of your stories of horror, be more careful who you trust.
Don’t tell me what to do… and here’s what you should do.
ah, irony
Reminds me of people in the media, such as Ann Coulter, who get upset when they provoke, but when they are criticized or challenged, they say their free speech is being taken away.
To the writer of the letter on PFOX…
1. Spare me the fake sentimentality. You are not appreciative of anyone’s concern, rather you are being extremely sarcastic and transparently so.
2. Learn a bit of the history. Ex-gay survivors didn’t event the term ex-gay, that was invented by people on your side of the table.
3. Consider who you are associating with before you blast anyone for as you put it ‘minding your business’. You are associating with PFOX, an organization well known for ‘minding the business’ of GLBTs for some time now. So for you to demand that others stay out of your business while having your letter sponsored by busybodies just makes your comment sound completely ridiculous.
4. As for people telling you how to live your life, you need to get used to that, it’s part of being human.
5. Since when is it hard to be ex-gay? And how has anyone made it hard for you to survive?
6. Consider your age and life experience before making sweeping comments. I’ve been your age, while you have not been mine.
7. How about listening? If you were listening, you would realize that ex-gay survivors have already done the ‘going about change in a different way’ routine.
8. As for rubbing it in your face, who is doing that?
9. No one said you personally or ex-gays generally were getting shock therapy or even reparative therapy. These are stories from individuals of varying ages and experiences. The fact that you have not experienced these things is irrelevant. As for the money issue, again this is individual experience. Many pursued a therapeutic approach, and that costs money, a lot of money. (By the way, no one ever said that shock therapy was given in a group context, despite what someone posting comments to your letter seems to think.)
10. As for changing, go for it, but let me say this, you say it’s ‘your business’, well remember that next time you see PFOX, Exodus, Focus on the Family, and so forth use the stories of those who have changed as an excuse for them to continue their political war against GLBT people. I’ll bet you didn’t know your personal pursuit was fodder for the culture warriors.
11. Lastly, you speak of respect, yet you write “You are no one.” So how can you demand respect when you prove with your own words that you have none for others?
And by the way, to PFOX and its blog commenters, with friends like this guy…well you get the idea.
I am saddened by the comments made by PFOX and Exodus President Alan Chambers. My heart really goes out to someone with so much anger. I am not sure why they feel so backed in a corner by us or so restless that they need to get so defensive. My message has been clear from the begining that I spent 10 years in ex-gay therapy, reparative therapy, four of which were spent in a residential live in program and I still turned out gay. There was some good that came out of the ex-gay movement like the community of friends, but there was more harm. The spiritual abuse that happened as a result and 50,550 dollars spent on trying to change my sexuality. Those are just a few things of harm I experienced.
‘The only thing that your organizations tell me is that because of some bad experiences you all had in the past, you’ve decided to carry your bitterness over to people like me, and try to rub it in my face, along with everyone else who desires change. Your pain and hurt, along with your frustration is extremely evident, and I’m sorry you had some bad experiences, but again, please respect the fact that I along with several other people have changed our lives.’
I am in no way bitter of some bad experience I had. I am just sharing my story that these programs didn’t work. And as seen above in other comments who has rubbed it in your face. If you believe our pain, hurt, and frustration is real why are you spouting such hate. I can only pray for you. I hope you will be more like Christ.
First of all Ex-Gay Watch’s website is far more sophisticated than PFOX could ever hope to be. Most importantly I must say to the writer of Diary of an Ex-Gay Man, THOU PROTEST TOO MUCH. You know that the truth never needs to defend itself in such a way. It just is. When someone protests the way the writer of that article protests I begin to think that he is projecting his own inner turmoil and is unwilling to face the truth that is inside of him. Why do people constantly look outside of themselves for the truth as opposed to trusting that innate goodness that is inside of themselves? I think it is because they are taught or dare I say brainwashed by their pastors and parents not to trust their inner being but to trust in a book that is bound up by their pastors interpretation and it is in those places that the GLBT children of God begin to learn the lessons of self-hate and begin to look outside of themselves to become dependent on a toxic religion of self distrust as a crutch as opposed to truly trusting in Christ’s pure love and Gospel which includes a passionate love of diversity within God’s creations.
This nation is the leader in so much chaos and insanity these days especially when it comes to religion. I don’t know of any other nation that has actually sought (through religion) to marginalize a whole minority group and to write that passive agressive hate into the constitution of the U.S. Naturally much of the “ex-gay” movement is very political because religion needs the ex-gay facade in order to sustain its anti-gay dogma as being true.
It is so incredibly sad that there are so many GLBT Christians who are still caught up in the destructive cycle of the ex-gay movement. I do feel, however, that some people need to hit their heads against the proverbial wall hundreds of times before they will wake up and trust themselvs and their inner feelings about their orientation as a gift from God as opposed to something to be warring and struggling against. What a peaceful state and realization that truly is and Shawn you are truly growing a tremendous amount and I am very proud of you. Keep up the crucial and amazing work of Christ in helping your GLBT brothers and sisters. If GLBT find a haven of love and peace within the GLBT Christian community we will know that we are doing our job.
First of all Ex-Gay Watch’s website is far more sophisticated than PFOX could ever hope to be. Most importantly I must say to the writer of Diary of an Ex-Gay Man, THOU PROTEST TOO MUCH. You know that the truth never needs to defend itself in such a way. It just is. When someone protests the way the writer of that article protests I begin to think that he is projecting his own inner turmoil and is unwilling to face the truth that is inside of him. Why do people constantly look outside of themselves for the truth as opposed to trusting that innate goodness that is inside of themselves? I think it is because they are taught or dare I say brainwashed by their pastors and parents not to trust their inner being but to trust in a book that is bound up by their pastors interpretation and it is in those places that the GLBT children of God begin to learn the lessons of self-hate and begin to look outside of themselves to become dependent on a toxic religion of self distrust as a crutch as opposed to truly trusting in Christ’s pure love and Gospel which includes a passionate love of diversity within God’s creations.
This nation is the leader in so much chaos and insanity these days especially when it comes to religion. I don’t know of any other nation that has actually sought (through religion) to marginalize a whole minority group and to write that passive agressive hate into the constitution of the U.S. Naturally much of the “ex-gay” movement is very political because religion needs the ex-gay facade in order to sustain its anti-gay dogma as being true.
It is so incredibly sad that there are so many GLBT Christians who are still caught up in the destructive cycle of the ex-gay movement. I do feel, however, that some people need to hit their heads against the proverbial wall hundreds of times before they will wake up and trust themselvs and their inner feelings about their orientation as a gift from God as opposed to something to be warring and struggling against. What a peaceful state and realization that truly is and Shawn you are truly growing a tremendous amount and I am very proud of you. Keep up the crucial and amazing work of Christ in helping your GLBT brothers and sisters. If GLBT find a haven of love and peace within the GLBT Christian community we will know that we are doing our job.
Oh and by the way, check out the book THE SECRET by Rhonda Byrne and also the DVD movie THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR. I hope that this kind of spirituality can sweep through our community and support a deep relationship with Christ that is filled with authentic love as opposed to conflict and the all too common EGO/Superiority complex issues that many Christians struggle with.
I believe those still involved with programs like Living Waters/Desert Stream have found a sense of security, belonging, and love that is based on a belief that what they are preaching and praying for is to honor God. The anger I believe stems from fear. I also believe there are borderline personality disordered folks in conservative Christian circles because of the need for black and white, all or nothing thinking and relating. However, a fear based position from my Christ consciousness is not about Christ at all. In our security, we can hear other voices. In our confidence, we can learn other people’s perspective and not become so reactive. I find it very sad that those who have found life outside of the ex-gay programs are not considered liberated or enlightened. They are considered now under the influence of Satan. I also find it sad that the ex gay programs often times teach same gender love is an addiction. The emotional response from ex-gays to folks still in the reparative counseling programs seems compassionate, while the other side feels very angry, afraid, and hostile. I do believe that religious addiction creates these kinds of responses, so I wonder if that is what the ex gay programs really are-a different type of addiction.
Ben thaks for your comments. Yes, it has taken a great amount of effort and tremendous prayer and meditation to get to the point that I am reaching today. For the first time in a long time I am searching out what God wants and not what man wants. Though not perfect. I look to the heavens and pray for those who continue to act out of anger. My favorite movie, is Saved with Mandy Moore. When she throughs the bible at the noutrious Jena Malone for having a child with her former boyfriend who turns out to be gay himself. Jena in a fit of rage turns around and says, “this is not a weapon”! How appropriate to what we are seeing today with the ex-gay movement and their repsonses to our testimonies and stories. It makes my heart weep.
Jennifer that is an excellent position regarding religious addiction. Religious addiction thrives in religions who use fear and Satan to create a dependence upon that belief system and a fear of the outside. They have one thing in common and that is extremism and fear. Those are hallmarks of a CULT. That is a word that people like Shawn O’Donnel and many others should use on CNN and other national media interviews to describe these ex-gay ministries when they meet the test of a cult which most (if not all) do.