Kyra Phillips host of CNN Newsroom, today interviewed moderate evangelical author Tony Campolo on the Rev. Ted Haggard’s upcoming “restoration.” Here’s a transcript:
CAMPOLO: [Haggard has] said all the right things up to this point. The real question is, when he does get counsel, when he does enter into this restoration process, will he be forthcoming and honest about everything? Will he just say, I have a little problem on the side? Or will he begin to face the fact that maybe I have a sexual orientation that does not offer an easy fix. And if he does turn out to be homosexual in his orientation, he’s going to have to live with that orientation and figure out what this means for the rest of his life, because there’s not an easy fix for that. And to suggest that a few prayers and a few spiritual things, some scripture reading, is going to solve the problem, it won’t. That’s a good beginning. But — and with God’s help, he can go beyond that. But I have to tell you, you do have to go beyond just a spiritual experience in the process of restoration.
Hmm… “he’s going to have to live with that orientation,” it’ll be interesting to see if other talk about “restoration” from evangelicals is this realistic. Oh but then there’s the matter of Mormon ex-gay ministry leader David Pruden who told a Utah TV station:
“Absolutely, one can change one’s sexual identity,” says David Prudenm [sic] executive director of Evergreen International, a group founded to help members of the LDS Church deal with issues of same-sex attraction.
Hat tip bcb and Cliff
Dave Pruden also said several things regarding Michael LeVay that were total lies which Michael LeVay refuted in the Salt Lake Tribune. Mr. Pruden never responded to Dr. LeVay’s correction. Take a look at the July 17th, 2006 article by Timothy Kincaid.
https://exgaywatch.com/blog/archives/2006/07/levay_exposes_e.html
Someone needs to forward Camplo’s remarks to Alan Chambers.
Some months ago, Alan told me he wanted to “do away with the term ex-gay intirely” because he felt the term was “more negative than anything” and did not accurately convey what the actual change process can delivers. It sounded like he was close to admitting the truth that Campolo is expressing, namely:
“And if he does turn out to be homosexual in his orientation, he’s going to have to live with that orientation.”
That’s the real question — how to “LIVE with that orientation”, not changing the orientation. For me, living with that orientation has meant telliing the truth about it and living a life guided by the Golden Rule.
If EXODUS also helps people live with that orientation, good for them. Even if that means they help them be celibate or settle down with one woman, or not have sex at all if their religious teachings forbid it.
But don’t LIE to people to “spin” the truth. The main difference between me and them is that I accept my God-given orientation and they don’t. I also don’t have to make up any new words to describe my life now. Not ex-gay” or “post-gay” or “formerly gay identified” — none of which have been defined clearly by the “change ministries”. I can use simple English. I am proud, Christian, gay man.
Changing one’s sexual identity is not the same thing as a change in sexual orientation. It’s just a change is self-concept — the way one looks at oneself or defines oneself. It may or may not include an actual change in sexual behavior. Some ex-hays have more gay sex AFTER they change their identity.
Tony Campolo is an evangelical I have admired for a long time.
If you have ever read the debate about homosexuality he had with his wife you’ll find a discussion done with mutual respect and love which puts all this in its proper perspective.
https://www.bridges-across.org/ba/campolo.htm
“Absolutely, one can change one’s sexual identity,” says David Prudenm.
Can someone tell me what sexuality identity is? Is that the same as sexual orientation?
I’ve never heard of Tony Campolo before, but based on this, I already like him. It’s refreshing to see other evangelicals being completely honest and realistic. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one.
“Absolutely, one can change one’s sexual identity,” says David Prudenm.
Can someone tell me what sexuality identity is? Is that the same as sexual orientation?
Anon,
Sexual identity is the notion that one can claim anything about oneself and decide that it’s true. Pruden thinks that if you don’t like the fact that you are same-sex attracted, you just decide that “gay” is not your identity and viola you are something else that isn’t gay.
When a gay person identifies as such, he or she is bringing the external label into line with the internal reality. An ex-gay spends years trying to get his inside attractions and desires to come in line with his self-proclaimed identity.
It’s as if you decided that humans are violent and nasty so therefore you are a dolphin. Viola, just like that you have a new identity. Of course the problem arises when you try to live in the water.
And just like ex-human dolphins, many ex-gays eventually drown.
Thanks for the link, Dan. I like this Campolo guy already, and it’s been a long time since the last time I said that about an evangelical preacher.
I think Dobson knows in his heart that there is no change in sexual orientation. He doesn’t want to be part of what he himself would call a failure.
Campolo’s wife Peggy is a leading spiritual advocate for the rights of GLBT persons and their full inclusion in the Church. Tony has advocated for full civil rights for GLBT persons, including civil unions that include all of the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexual marriage, just with a different name. Tony also argues that GLBT persons should be welcomed into the full life of the Church (as are divorced persons, etc.) with no stigmatization or discrimination, though he still believes that scripture precludes the religious blessing or celebration of same-sex unions. The church loses nothing in recognizing the couple’s union, he argues (in the same way many churches will not perform marriages for persons previously divorced, but still recognize them as a family), and serves to gain much from such a practice. He also practices what he preaches. He is one of a few prominent evangelicals ever to accept an invitation to preach at predominately gay congregation.
CNN associates “restoration” with evangelicals, who are sketchy in their own effort to show Biblical support:
According to the CNN story, there are even manuals and workbooks about restoration.
Honestly, I don’t have a problem with gay people trying to not engage due to family problems, religious problems, etc. Of course I wish, for their own happiness, that they could find peace with their sexuality, but I cannot mandate it, obviously. I just think it’s sad and unethical to choose marriage over celibacy. My sister was married to a gay man, had one child. she was miserable and so was he. Imagine living your life with someone who didn’t feel desire for you. And not just sexual desire. My sister’s ex once told me, “I love her dearly, but not deeply.” How much sadder can a life be? Just my thoughts.
Well, Rev. Campolo said there is no easy fix for Haggard’s orientation.
I’d say there is no easy fix for his SITUATION. His betrayal of his family and congregation is revealed.
The was NO fix for his orientation, and more is the point there is no NECESSITY to fix his orientation.
The ex gay movement and ministry sets people up with conundrums and circular activity, if not impossibly ironic issues to deal with.
They insist gay people are ‘broken’ and then proceed with exercises, dictations and deprivations that a NORMAL person would end up having MORE problems.
It’s like the sensitivity challenged dolt that insists he’s an expert on something, but ultimately doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing, let alone not even knowing where he shouldn’t be sticking his nose in the first place!