EDITED: I’ve edited this posting to narrow my focus of criticism.
Addendum, July 7: CWFA has revoked intern Sarah Kuziomko’s original press release without explanation or apology; here is a copy of the original press release, obtained from Google cache. Here is CWFA’s revised press release.
Grove City College, where prominent ex-gay proponent Warren Throckmorton teaches, has contributed a new combatant in the Culture Wars. Sarah Kuziomko, an intern at Concerned Women for America, is a communications major at the school.
However, Ms. Kuziomko appears to be learning the lie, spin, and distort branch of communications. Her latest effort was to repeat the false story about the “mobbing” of the son of anti-gay activist David Parker.
A mob of schoolchildren seized and beat the 7-year-old son of pro-family activist David Parker behind his school, Estabrook Elementary, in Lexington, Massachusetts, recently, on the second anniversary of same-sex “marriage” in Massachusetts.
The victim, first-grader Jacob Parker, apparently is feeling the heat for his father’s opposition to forced pro-homosexual education.
The school became aware of the fight immediately and discussed it with all parties. The investigation determined that the scuffle was over who sat where in the cafeteria. When the Parkers issued a press release filled with paranoia, the school administration invited an investigation by the police. All of this is clearly explained on the website of the school.
We know that Kuziomko has seen either the site or read some of the refuting evidence because her story references the police involvement, which was not included on the original press release:
Recently the school superintendent asked three different government agencies to investigate the beatings. All three mysteriously declined.
There was nothing mysterious about their disinclination to become involved with a schoolyard fight over a chair. If the boys were so content with the resolution that they had a subsequent play date, surely this is not a police matter.
There is no question that Kuziomko knows that the story she’s spreading is false. It is clear in the way that she selects phrases like “apparently is feeling the heat”, “mysteriously declined”, and “many observers believe”. She’s walking the fine line between an outright lie and giving a false impression.
I am concerned that this behavior is evident in a student at a Christian school. It makes me wonder whether the Communications Department at Grove City College is adequately teaching an ethic that places emphasis on truth, fact, and honesty.
(thanks GoodAsYou)
Is it possible the school system could sue any of the groups involved in spreading these lies for libel?
I am concerned that this behavior is evident in a student at a Christian school. It makes me wonder if the faculty and staff at Grove City are teaching an ethic that has no regard for truth, fact, and honesty.
Sadly, the regard for truth goes out the window when it conflicts with their ideology. These “Christian” schools are little better than madrassas in the Muslim world; they promote an insular and xenophobic worldview in their students and teach them that actually engaging someone in honest intellectual debate or discussion is bad, because it may expose them to ideas that make them question what their religon teaches them.
There are no Christian schools; there are only indoctrination centers to immerse children/students into the fundamentalist “Christian” worldview and to teach them to hate their fellow man. Clearly these are not values that Jesus taught or would have taught in his name. My preferred term for these faux-Christians is actually “Latter Day Hebrews”, for their love of the jealous, petty, anthropomorphic, fire and brimstone throwing Yahweh/Jehova/Allah of the “Old Testament”. They fall far short of being called followers of Christ since they almost entirely ignore his basic teachings of love, charity and forgiveness.
Jonathon, in your reference to “Latter Day Hebrews,” you seem to be blaming Judaism for the distortions of the Old Testament that are committed by modern-day fundamentalist Christian and Jewish sects. Or am I misunderstanding you?
I think the only thing that is “mysterious” is that this young woman is a “communications” major. . .obviously that department needs to be changed to “School of Propaganda.”
There is nothing “christian” about deliberate lying.
I think Jonathan may have adopted the theology of the Marcionites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionites
Modern day Hebrews still consider lying to be wrong 😉 It’s one of the Big Ten and even the ancient Hebrews were down with that, despite their ancient warlike ways.
The main issue that I have with Jonathons ‘preferred term’ and his disdain for the “Old Testament” is that it ignores the Books of Moses many references to love and charity as well as the reforms made by the Prophets, which Jesus appears to have been following (and which the Pharisees also followed in their reforms at approximately the same time). I prefer “Intellectually lazy and biased modern day Christians”.
An anachronistic reading of the Books of Moses will produce a wide range of responses, one of which is to use the Bronze Age conception of the Deity as an example of why the book should be rejected as a source of religious teaching. Another might be the pick and choose method of the ILaBC’s. I find both simplistic, but then, I’m a religious geek.
I honestly don’t think these people have a very deep understanding of the Books of Moses or the rest of the “Old Testament”. They seem to be superimposing what they want to believe onto whatever texts they are reading (including the New Testament) and that includes their irrational biases and hatreds. Were they incorporating the “Old Testament’s teaching” they wouldn’t be spreading lies and malicious gossip.
Jonathan said:
These “Christian” schools are little better than madrassas in the Muslim world; they promote an insular and xenophobic worldview in their students and teach them that actually engaging someone in honest intellectual debate or discussion is bad, because it may expose them to ideas that make them question what their religon teaches them.
There are no Christian schools; there are only indoctrination centers to immerse children/students into the fundamentalist “Christian” worldview and to teach them to hate their fellow man.
Jonathan, you know better than to make such sweeping generalizations, and worse state them as fact. You may have a legitimate point in there somewhere but it is buried in too much dogma to be effective. Please be more specific about which schools you mean by these “Christian” schools and provide some authoritative reference to back up your view. Otherwise, please state opinions as opinions.
David Roberts
A few clarifications:
1. I use the term “Latter Day Hebrews” not as an insult against Jews but to point out that by emphasizing the social and moral codes that are found in the “Old Testament”, literalist “Christians” are aligning themselves with something more akin to the ancient religion of the Jews. It was also intended to be a slight against the Mormons, who I also see as false “Christians”. I certainly understand that most modern Jews don’t hold beliefs similar to the Dobsons, Falwells, Robertsons, etc. of the world. Sorry if anyone was offended, but that is certainly not what I intended. I am not “blaming” Judaism for the gross misinterpretations that the literalists and fundamentalists make, but one cannot deny that the scriptures that inspire modern-day bigotry and hatred amongst fundamentalists is grounded in Bronze Age Hebrew customs and beliefs.
2. I don’t self-identify as a Marcionist; rather I lean more heavily towards what used to be called gnosticism. I don’t claim to have achieved a state of “gnosis”, but I’d like to think that I am on my way towards it.
3. Hava Israel, we agree much more than we disagree. I don’t really have a “disdain” for the “Old Testament”; rather I have disdain for those who claim to be followers of Jesus yet cling to selected “rules” from the “OT” and use them to abuse other people. You are indeed correct that most people do not have a good understanding of scripture, certainly in such a way that allows them to understand them in a historical, literary and cultural context.
4. David, I appreciate your comment about my “sweeping generalizations,” but I think that you’d be hard-pressed to find a sectarian “Christian” school that isn’t little more than an indoctrination center. Have you ever actually reviewed any of the “textbooks” used in these schools? Have you ever visited a “Christian” bookstore where homeschooling supplies and materials are sold? Despite my generalization, can you provide any examples of “Christian” schools that DON’T indoctrinate their students in a narrow, fundamentalist and exclusionary worldview? (Keep in mind that I live in the deep South; my perceptions are definitely skewed by the cultural climate in which I live. Perhaps there are indeed schools in other parts of the country that aren’t as rabid in their fundamentalist beliefs and that actually impart true Christian values, but there certainly aren’t any around here.)
Thanks guys. I really enjoy the discussion on this site and find it very nice to have some intelligent folks to “talk to”. 🙂
“I don’t self-identify as a Marcionist; rather I lean more heavily towards what used to be called gnosticism.”
Bad guess on my part. But I wasn’t too far off.
“Despite my generalization, can you provide any examples of “Christian” schools that DON’T indoctrinate their students in a narrow, fundamentalist and exclusionary worldview?”
Well, I suppose we could start the the dozens of universities affiliated with the United Church of Christ
https://www.ucc.org/education/school/index.html
I’m sure there must me some of the colleges affiliated with the Episcopal Church that don’t have a fundamentalist worldview:
https://www.cuac.org/53810_53925_ENG_HTM.htm?menupage=61263
Considering that the United Methodists in Minnesotta just voted to support gay unions, I find it unlikely that ALL universities affiliated with the United Methodists are exclusionary:
https://www.gbhem.org/gbhem/colleg.html
And if you’re looking for a specific Christian Seminary in the South that does not fit your stereotype, I imagine that Vanderbilt University Divinity School might work for you
https://www.vanderbilt.edu/divinity/viewbook/environment.htm
(I’ll switch to Hava, so people can drop the last name.)
Jonathon, we probably agree on quite a lot, except that my beliefs fall on the Jewish Gnostic side rather than the Christian Gnostic side, which if you’re interested in a short summary comparison:
https://www.newkabbalah.com/gnos.html
Not to be confused with whatever Madonna’s doing, more like Hasidism having lunch and discussing the meaning of life with Hegel and several medieval Spanish mystics (vegetarian with a nice wine).
I did pick up on the Mormon theme. Are you a former Mormon?
Jonathon wrote:
“but one cannot deny that the scriptures that inspire modern-day bigotry and hatred amongst fundamentalists is grounded in Bronze Age Hebrew customs and beliefs.”
While I do agree with this to a certain extent, the majority of the biblical passages I’m seeing being referred to as against homosexuality are from Paul (or believed to be letters written by Paul).
I know that people like to bring up the Sodom and Gemorah story, but this is a misunderstanding on the part of Christian readers. The Jewish reading is best illustrated by Ezechiel:
“16:49. Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom thy sister, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance, and the idleness of her, and of her daughters: and they did not put forth their hand to the needy, and the poor.”
The only place that any kind of homosexual act is mentioned is in Leviticus. Deuteronomy 23:17 is about prostitution. The King James version is a mistranslation. NIV is more accurate (“No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute.”)
I would argue that Paul, is more of the source for Christian validation of homophobia.
This isn’t to say that people haven’t gotten some very negative approaches to pagans and those they see as ‘others’ from the Old Testament, but I don’t think that it can be soley blamed for homophobia, and the misunderstanding of the translators and interpreters of the text have a good deal to do with it. This is coming from the homophobia in the culture.
Hava,
I think you may be slightly mistaken. I think most conservative Christians use Leviticus to support the notion that homosexuality is sin. They use Romans to support the idea that, unlike dietary law for example, this “God’s Law” still applied to Christians.
Also, Christians don’t view Leviticus as either temple prostitution or as the prohibition of a single act. They extrapolate these verses to denounce not only all same-sex sexual acts, but to also forbid anything associated. Thus you have a “living a homosexual lifestyle” being defined as sin which seems to be defined by simply acknowledging that you’re gay.
Yes, it’s abuse of scripture. No matter how conservative or literalist you are, there’s really no way to twist scripture, Jewish Bible or Christian Bible, to claim that a “homosexual lifestyle” is sin.
Timothy, you know more of the approach that Christians use than I do, though I’d argue that it’s still Paul – as it was his ruling that removed the kosher and circumcision laws from early Christianity. Isn’t this the major argument between Paul and James, with James finally capitulating in the end as far as converts go?
There are many laws that Paul didn’t specifically state in his letters that Christians don’t follow (nor do Jews any more, for that matter). The food and circumcision laws would be of major importance to converts, of course, as that was his mission.
I’m sure you’re correct about the rationalization, though.
Jonathan said:
Despite my generalization, can you provide any examples of “Christian” schools that DON’T indoctrinate their students in a narrow, fundamentalist and exclusionary worldview?
It’s not my job to find exceptions to your generalized negative, you have to support your own statements. There just isn’t any way for you to remain intellectually honest and make such a broad statement, so I would suggest you retract it and narrow the scope to that which you have actually observed or experienced.
I have a great deal of experience concerning the areas you mentioned but again, the onus is on you to make a reasonable, substantiated claim first.
David Roberts
Hava,
I’d agree that the battle between Paul and James (the brother of Jesus and head the believers in Jerusalem) over the judaizing of gentile christians was eventually won by Paul (it can really hurt your evangelism efforts when you tell a grown man that he has to lop off his foreskin). And if James ever wrote letters disputing Paul’s position, they’ve been relegated to the trash heap of history.
However, if we are discussing modern conservative evangelical Christianity, this subset of Christians tends to hold the Old Testament in as much regard as the New Testament and when quoting sin will refer to Jewish Scripture as quickly as to the Gospels and Epistles. Unless the Christian Scriptures specifically exempt something from the list of sins (or unless they are culturally embarrasing or are too inconvenient to the preacher and the flock) then “the Bible said it’s a sin, a sin, I tell you.”
I’ve not seen a denunciation of gay people from this branch that did not include something along the lines of:
“And God said in Leviticus don’t lay with a man as with a woman, praise God, and he said it’s an abomination. An abomination. And now that abomination has a lobby, and a pride day, and…”
The bronze age wording is so much more fun to quote when you are condemning and judging and reviling people that you wish ill, you know.
Timothy said:
However, if we are discussing modern conservative evangelical Christianity, this subset of Christians tends to hold the Old Testament in as much regard as the New Testament and when quoting sin will refer to Jewish Scripture as quickly as to the Gospels and Epistles.
Can you explain what you mean by “hold the OT in as much regard as the NT?” Taking this statement at face value, I would have to say the reverse would the subset. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
As for Levitical Law, it’s perfectly valid for it’s intended purpose but I’m not sure the age in which it was written makes any difference. Any statement can be invalidated if it is misinterpreted or applied incorrectly, whether it was written yesterday or 5000 years ago.
If I were going to use scripture to condemn homosexuality, I would say the references that come closest to doing so are in the NT. Though some of these appear to reference the subject only through recent translations, there are others that are not as easily dismissed. My personal understanding is that they do not condemn it, but this is a hypothetical. I’m sparing others the details of the references both because we are already pretty deep into scriptural issues which many here find tedious and because it’s 4:20 AM 🙁
If someone really wants to know, just ask me tomorrow. They are usually listed as the “clobber passages“, but I’m talking about the ones from the NT only.
Good Night!
David Roberts
Let’s talk about Grove City College in particular. The Pew Foundation (Howard, Sun Oil)has made funding the College and the Presbyterian Lay Committee an ongoing operation for about four decades. Back when the Lay Committee wanted to present itself as an organization with a substantial membership, they held a string of Annual Meetings/summer camps at the College, so the Lay Committee’s more or less monthly newspaper would regularly gush about how wonderful the College was-especially when it refused to accept Federal aid for its students and sued the Government over some largely imaginary discrimination issue. The Lay (in the Mexican sense, ie., anti-clerical)(even though its lead spokesmodel for the last decade is an ordained clergyman) Committee spearheads issues like ‘commies get church money’, ‘local churches own local church property even if the Bylaws have said otherwise for close to 200 years’, and ‘fags will kill the Church (with our help)’. Grove City people hopped on the Internet to troll progressive Presbyterian sites just about as soon as that was an option, so Ms. Kuziomoko’s work is not a new thing to this Jonathan.
While some dispute the matter, Presbyterians usually think of themselves as Christians, so we might note that Presbyterian- related colleges like Grove City and Princeton offer different versions of how a College might be said to be Christian. Notice also, that for all its problems, Princeton’s relationship with the broader Presbyterian Church goes back considerably further than Grove City’s. Both schools are subject to more seriously academic accreditation processes than apply to the uncharming Koranic prep schools the Saudis spend so much of the oil money we pay them on.
Grove City isn’t the only college whose communication students and grads make careers out of telling lies and half-truths — just look at the talking heads on the cable news networks and the PR flacks for Big Oil and the telecom giants.
That being said, the lies being spread on behalf of David Parker are exceptionally deliberate, malicious, false and incendiary.
Also keep in mind that the writer is lying under the supervision of Robert Knight and Beverly and Tim LaHaye. To what degree should colleges be held responsible for persistent ethical misconduct by graduates?
Just have to chime in, as this is my alma mater, sadly. Note the italicized portions, peruse the website for links to the Bush administration and right-wing orgs.
From their Mission Statement:
Grove City College remains true to the vision of its founders. Rejecting relativism and secularism, it fosters intellectual, moral, spiritual, and social development consistent with a commitment to Christian truth, morals, and freedom. Rather than political, ideological, or philosophical agendas, objective truth continues as the goal of liberal learning.
The core of the curriculum, particularly in the humanities, consists of books, thinkers, and ideas proven across the ages to be of value in the quest for knowledge. Intellectual inquiry remains open to the questions religion raises and affirms the answers Christianity offers. The ethical absolutes of the Ten Commandments and Christ’s moral teachings guide the effort to develop intellect and character in the classroom, chapel, and cocurricular activities. And while many points of view are examined, the College unapologetically advocates preservation of America’s religious, political, and economic heritage of individual freedom and responsibility.
I also am a former ‘alumni’ of GCC. You guys have no idea how bad a college it is. I was probably the only person at the school at the time publically supporting gay rights (I’m straight, myself, and I suspect that that support got me kicked out of GCC.
I was treated by Dr. Throck, and the experience was not pleasant frankly. I’d say more, but I do not want to get sued.
I think people in the gay rights movement need to realize that reparative therapy is only one strain in a larger corruption of psychology by Christian organizations. Have any of you ever heard of nouthetics? This is the psychological ‘theory’ that mental illness is the result of sin. Yes, you heard me right. Google Jay Adams if you don’t believe me.
Kudos to Ex-Gay Watch. Please realize that not even all evangelicals buy into this anti-gay crud.
Afraid to give it said:
[Nouthetics] is the psychological ‘theory’ that mental illness is the result of sin.
I had not heard that term until your post. A quick Google search finds quite a range of definitions, as does much involving beliefs. Christian theology generally holds that all illness of any kind is the result of The Fall, but it is less common in my experience that this influences how one deals with it. IOW, an infected appendix requires removal by surgery to be followed with antibiotics, whether we attribute the existence of bacterial infections to the fallen state of man or not.
I would apply the same logic to mental illness. Unfortunately, because a state of mind can be fluid, not as easily illustrated on an x-ray film, etc, it is easier to advocate “treatment” through prayer and scripture rather than accepted theories on the treatment of mental illness.
So, in some ways your statement doesn’t seem that shocking to me. However, I am a Christian and I did select a standard Psychiatrist free of (apparent) religious bias when I was in need of therapy and have no doubt that it was the correct move for me. If Nouthetics means treatment of mental illness based on Scripture to the exclusion of all else, I don’t think that makes any sense.
David Roberts
I come from a religous tradition that believes that addiction and mental illness (at least some) is the manifestation of demon possession or oppression. Once you’ve seen “the laying on of hands and casting out of spirits”, you come to realize that Christian theology can have some pretty bizarre “treatments”, regardless of whether they “make sense”.
I hope that the GCC position on the cause of mental illness – as you have described it – is more theological doctrine than practical application. I would not be surprised by teachings claiming that living within God’s Will brings peace, but I would find it odd if they suggested that specific sin(s) caused specific mental illness or that repentance could bring a cure.
Nouthetics does directly use scripture to treat mental illness – even serious mental illness. I read a story about a pastor in Florida who told a schitzophrenic congregant to get off his meds, cause a real Christian does not need meds. The congregant then went out and killed someone – and he was a perfectly good guy whenever he was on his meds.
People who support Nouthetics, like those who support reparative therapy, will tell you one thing and mean another. They do really, truly, believe that mental illness is a sin, even if they deny that fact on more public forums. They don’t believe that most mental illnesses exist, except for ‘organic’ disorders (and their definition of organic is pretty narrow).
Nouthetics is not GCC’s doctrine. I’m sorry if I implied that. What I was saying is that Throckmorton’s application of reparative therapy is very similar in its pseudo-scientific language to nouthetic therapy. However, many students at GCC do hold to a nouthetic like attitude concerning mental illness. So does the school administration, which is why I was forced out of GCC (I have moderate Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, though I am pretty high functioning as far as OCD patients go.).
Seriously, though, when I was treated by Throckmorton, I found him to be a scary individual. There are things I can not tell you about him because I know he reads this site. But rest assured, reparative therapy is not his only sin.
Dr. Throckmorton does not practice reparative therapy.
https://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=183
Theoretically, Throckmorton is not reparative. In practice, I don’t see a heck of a lot of difference, though i admit he is marginally better than other such therapists.
Frankly, I think its disingenous for him to claim he is not a reparative therapist, when his site is linked directly to Exodus International and Focus on the Family.
But I do admit, at least Throckmorton does not buy into the bad father theory of therapy.
Afraid to Give it — you can never be sued for libel etc for telling the truth. (Well, they can try but they will fail.)
Given we seem to have become the resident Trockmorton Liaison Officer around here, we’d be interested in hearing from you. If willing.
Not interested in Warren per se. Ew, please 🙂 But would be interested in the environment etc that you found while at Grove City.
If you’re inclined, you may take it off-site with us at this email address grantdalexgw@hotmail.com
Thanks! (and ps: any comms will remain with us)