Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays operates a Yahoo group for antigay parents and relatives of adult gay persons.
The e-mail discussions are tightly moderated by conservative federal “civil rights” attorney Estella Salvatierra, who has served as PFOX vice president. Salvatierra not only blocks any e-mail message that is critical of an exgay activist or tactic, but also has been known to edit the PFOX list members’ messages — changing key phrases and deleting paragraphs to comply with PFOX’s strict and politically correct worldview — without informing the writer or the group of her changes.
Following PFOX president Richard Cohen’s embarrassing appearance on CNN on May 23, three messages of support for Cohen were released by Salvatierra. It is unknown whether any messages voicing skepticism toward Cohen were blocked, or whether these three messages of support were rewritten by Salvatierra.
Here are the three messages, shown in their entirety except for the writer’s identity.
From one woman:
I felt Richard did an excellent job–it’s too bad that we didn’t get to see the other 4 hours of filming!–in our note to Paula Zahn we wrote” Thank you Paula for your show last night. The ex gays are an emerging community that the politically active gays are trying to suppress. By giving the ex gays a voice, those who presently are leading a gay lifestyle and who want to change are given hope and an alternative to the gay lifestyle that they are now living.”
I also want to thank Richard’s client Rob for his courage to be on her program. It has taken a tremendous amount of work on his part to reach his dream. Both he and Richard have given us hope that our son Christopher will want therapy and that one day he, too, will be looking on E Harmony for a date with a woman!
From another woman:
Hi All,
I watched the Paula Zahn show last night and taped it. In general, I thought it was very good and allowed both sides to be shown. Of course, it had it’s liberal slant but the ex-gay side was shown. The most important thing Paula said that I liked, which has never been said on a liberal channel before was that ‘DOCTORS DON’T KNOW WHAT CAUSES SAME-SEX ATTRACTION. THERE IS NO GAY GENE! AND, NO DEFINITIVE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH THAT ONES FAMILY OR ENVIRONMENT TRIGGERS IT.” Richard did a good job, as well as his client Rob, who was shown as a success story on the show. I was also glad that it showed Richards book, ‘Coming Out Straight.’ enlarged on the screen. They focused in on Richard’s technique of hitting the pillow with a tennis racket to make him look a bit like a nut case and also said he was not a licensed therapist. But, the fact is that they did say that Richard had changed, was married, and had kids and was happy as well as Rob. Richard also said that he was not against those who wanted to be gay. He said, ‘That’s great if they want to be gay’ but he wanted the option that change is possible to be represented as well. Richard demonstrated the ‘Holding’ Technique with Rob. This technique of cradling or holding someone in a loving way as a healthy parent would with a child, demonstrated a healing non-sexual process. Having gone to one of Richards Healing Seminars with our son, I experienced this technique, first hand, and my son really liked it too. The show said that people used religious and secular therapy as change methods. Even though these techniques may not work for some, it did for Richard and many others. Just like many religions may not agree on everything, we can find common ground.
On the other side, they showed Jack Dressier who represented the APA as putting down reparative therapy. He said that there was no research or evidence for reparative therapy and that it was dangerous. The fact is that there is research out there (like Dr. Spitzer’s) and even if the research is antidotal, it shows people have changed. Most medical research started by experimentation and Richard was just showing some of the things that have worked for him and others. A guy named Xavier Yager, who had gone through reparative therapy was shown as not being able to change and how that depressed him and they mentioned how he almost killed himself. They actually did a poor job of representing their side I thought. They both looked like stressed out, unhappy people, and the ex-gays looked at peace and happy. I was sorry to not see Dr. Spitzer on the segment. I just wrote Paula Zahn this morning and here is what I wrote:
Dear Paula,
Thank you so much for airing last nights ( 5/23/06 ) program about whether change is possible for gay people. I so appreciated your segment with Richard Cohen. It is SOOO important to have that option available to those who want it. I have a 23 year old son who discovered his same-sex attraction at 16. I wish the schools had informed him about change is possible groups when he was young instead of pushing him to be gay. He connected with a pro-gay Danish youth on the net who sent him porn and influenced him to accept himself as gay. I wrote to this Danish youth for two years and our letters to each other became a book I wrote, [identifying information omitted by XGW].
Richard Cohen wrote the foreword to it which is at that link. This Danish youth, and my son allowed me to publish our story to show that those on both sides of this issue can find common ground and get along.
I thought your segment was fairly balanced and I GREATLY appreciated it. I had heard that Dr. Spitzer was going to be on your show and was disappointed that he was not. It would be wonderful if you could have him and Dr. Warren Throckmorton on your show with the new ‘I do Exist’ video they have put out. Again, Thanks a bunch!!!
Finally, from a third woman:
Wow! I was scared to look and had to mute the APA guy, but Richard, you really scored one! And they were actually fair, I thought. They only showed part of the therapy of course, but what hope you have given people!
With love,
[signature]
“Emerging community,” huh? Don’t ex-gay groups claim that the idea is to stop people from defining themselves by their sexuality and help them fit into the conservative, straight, Christian community?
If any parent wishes this kind of thing onto their kids, they are a lousy excuse for a parent. Bottom line. The diplomacy well is running dry, sorry.
Rob is a success story? If any PFOX parent came home and found his or her son in the arms of someone of the same gender, I suspect they would be pretty upset.
By giving the ex gays a voice, those who presently are leading a gay lifestyle and who want to change are given hope and an alternative to the gay lifestyle that they are now living.”
Because gay people apparently are raised in isolation and then released into society without EVER seeing “normal,” healthy heterosexual relationships. (rolleyes)
Do they think gay people are some sort of pod people? Even ignoring the number of gays and lesbians who come out only after trying exactly the kind of heterosexual relationships the “ex-gay” movement wants, nearly every gay and lesbian person lived in a heterosexual family of some kind. As I have said before, my parents were married for nearly 35 years, my maternal grandparents for nearly 40 and my paternal grandparents over 55 years, and all of those relationships ended only with one spouse’s death. Add in my sister, cousins, friends, etc, who are all in happy heterosexual marriages, and I personally have plenty of examples of the “alternative” to being gay.
I am a pod person. Hehe.
Actually, gays are by their very nature individuals. They have to separate themselves from the society in many ways because they are outsiders (the interesting thing is that over the years gays have assimilated more and more, and so that is part of the “threat” that some people perceive. The outsider status is breaking down).
There have been many literary studies associating gays and outsiders in horror and sci-fi. I love horror movies, and I think that much of that was that I felt like an outsider as a kid–I understood that my attractions were not what everyone around me felt. Monsters are misunderstood by society and exiled. It is no accident that James Whale was the major creator of early monster films–Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein deal with monsters who are exiled. They want relationships that not approved by society. Check out: Monsters in the Closet: Homosexuality and the Horror Film.
I sometimes wonder if younger gays see themselves differently with iconic figures such as monsters. Do many see themselves as outsiders still? How much assimiliation has happened in culture? I am a middle gay–I do not identify with the old icons (Judy Garland, etc.), but I still identified with outsider images (monsters, punk music, etc). However, I tend to think queer culture is dying, so I really wonder if young gays have these experiences still. Are gays still outsiders?
There’s too much too make fun of and I rarely say this, but that is so sad. It must be devastating what those parents go through. Such unnecessary torment.
All those “family” groups aren’t just screwing over gays, they’re screwing over entire families. When they find out what they have truly done they will never forgive themselves.
Am I the only one who noticed that Rob’s “cure” led him to trolling the internet looking for women. Potential sexual predator – all be it a hetero one. I wonder what his Myspace name is?
It’s amazing how people see what they want to see:
A guy named Xavier Yager, who had gone through reparative therapy was shown as not being able to change and how that depressed him and they mentioned how he almost killed himself. They actually did a poor job of representing their side I thought. They both looked like stressed out, unhappy people, and the ex-gays looked at peace and happy
Isn’t the fact that reparative therapy was damaging to Yager a point against RT, not Yager? He didn’t look “unhappy”, he looked disappointed that RT is still being practiced and harming others.
The “ex-gay” didn’t look anything–his face was a shadow, and all we saw was him cuddling Richard. When my partner and I were watching, she noticed his shift into a “robot” voice–she said that it was something I used to do when we first met. In conversation, when I began defending my reasons for trying to change, I turned towards stock phrases and the pitch of my voice changed. I *was* a pod person!
I did write some very impassioned things about my struggle–some of which are probably cached online still. But the energy I wrote them out of was fear that I would fail, and that I was losing the fight.
The longer I go without depression, without tormented dreams (I used to have nightmares nearly every night), without fear, the easier it is to forget what I went through. Segments like these remind me–and confirm yet again what a blessed life I have. I say blessed not because of a belief in a transcendent deity, but because I know that, if it were not for certain events not under my control, I might still be one of those shadowy “ex-gays.”
“Emerging community,” huh? Don’t ex-gay groups claim that the idea is to stop people from defining themselves by their sexuality and help them fit into the conservative, straight, Christian community?
That’s one of the things that concerns me about PFOX in general–they seem to want to copy gays and the gay rights movement in so many ways, turning exgays into a sort of parody of gays.
So if the gays have a community, then we must have a community too. If gay is recognized as a sexual orientation, then exgay must be recognized as another sexual orientation (according to Regina Griggs). If the gays are lobbying for their interests, then we had better be lobbying for ours too (the “Ex-gay Lobby Days”). If gays say they experience discrimination, then we must talk about exgay discrimination (as Cohen did on CNN). If gays say they want their rights, then we must insist upon our exgay rights. If gays get to appear at diversity presentations, so should we. If gays worry about gay bashing, then we must complain about exgay-bashing. If gays and pro-gays will have GSA’s, then we will have “Ex-gays and Friends Clubs”. PFOX even has “Ex-gay is OK” buttons, mimicking the pro-gay slogan, and the page selling them says, “Show your ex-gay pride!”
I think that I want to throw up now.
How sad for the son of the woman in the second letter!! I wonder how soon after coming out to his mom at age 16, he figured out how to “play” her and make her think that he was trying to “quit” being who he is. This spurious “Danish youth” who allegedly sent “porn” to this poor guy in all honestly probably doesn’t exist. I also doubt that what a moonbat “PFOX” mom would consider porn would be anything like the real thing – it was probably just a picture of two guys hugging or something.
Anyway…. how I wish that we could put an end to this nonsense about “reparative therapy” for homosexuals. Until someone on the anti-gay side of the battle is willing to put their “techniques” up to the test of converting a heterosexual into a homosexual and “proving” that sexuality is mutable I refuse to give any respect or credence to these modern-day snake oil salesmen who are destroying the lives of the men and women they claim to “help” and are at the same time actively trying to prevent gays and lesbians from having any civil rights protections whatsoever.
I think it’s a very telling comment that the third writer had to mute Jack Drescher. Very telling indeed.
Hi Pushpak, I did notice that the guy was looking to the net for a female.
I thought his ideals and expectations around meeting and having a female companion was childlike and unnatural.
He treated the act of being with a woman, like shopping. It was a little weird.
I’m a straight woman, and the environments in which flirting, casual courtship and deeper relationships don’t work that way.
Spontaneity is part of the whole fun of attraction and relationships.
It’s at it’s best when it’s a natural attraction, not an ACQUIRED one.
Gay men who try to acquire straight attractions to women, might not come off as genuine in this man’s case.
Dating is hard for straight people. Expectations can be just as skewed. I like the idea of a gay man’s attraction to a woman coming from the bonds of friendship that form. It’s healthy and refreshing to be able to have that with an opposite sex person, without all the sexual tension.
But the ex gay movement doesn’t respect this aspect of life as appropriate and exactly why there are gay people in the first place in human life.
These friedships are the usual kind of marriage transition gay men and women make who are closeted. After that, no one is interested in the quality of the sex lives of couples like this.
I have speculated on the common use of the word ‘struggle’ by ex gays.
That’s a broad term.
Could mean difficulty with shyness, resentment at their body image, or there was a phase of unsatisfactory dating or sexual encounters.
I got news for the Richard Cohens of that movement and his client.
You can have the exact same ‘struggle’ with heterosexuality. And I think Cohen’s client was set up for just that reason.
He seems to think his struggle will disappear magically with his acquired heterosexuality.
Word to these ex gays: heterosexuality isn’t a virtue, it’s a coincidence.
“I wonder what his Myspace name is?”
Actually, I think he was on eharmony.com, with all their points of compatibility. I just wonder how one fills out a profile and what sort of woman would respond:
SWM, strongly religious, identity issues, currently in touch therapy SEEKING woman who is so desperate that she’ll date a man who isn’t attracted to her.
When I was ex-gay, I went for a period of time thinking/feeling that I’d changed, and sort of looking around for guys that I might like to date/marry. I am so glad that never worked out.
And I’m really hoping that if this guy hasn’t truly become hetersexual (and who’s gonna bet with me that he hasn’t), that he doesn’t hurt any innocent women in this next phase of his “recovery.”
Christine,
I’m heading to Vegas tomorrow and fully intend on losing money in the casinos (though I’m really going to see Madonna in concert – yeah, I know, live the stereotype). But even I wouldn’t take you up on that bet.
I DID actually marry. I basically looked for someone who was as religious as me, not terribly disfigured in some way, with similar political beliefs and married the first one who asked. I realize now that it was all me desparately trying to prove to myself that I was straight so I could be ‘normal’ and ‘healthy’ and believing that my religious experiences and beliefs could change me. He was bitterly angry at me and repeatedly told me I had deceived him, which is correct, I did, but I’d deceived myself first. It still disturbs me that I could hate myself so much that I’d put myself and someone else through that. It’s fairly common in the Orthodox world for gay people to marry a straight person. I’d spent about a year on a listserve that was specifically for Orthodox lesbians and several who were remaining in their marriages were on anti-depressants just to get through each day. Most of them couldn’t tell their husbands what the problem was because there’s such a stigma in the community. The one I knew who was doing ok had a very understanding husband who knew she was a lesbian. They lived together like best friends, working together in a business.
I too, was counseled by well-meaning, but ignorant clergy/therapists that marriage would be my healing. Believing them only ensured that the circle of damage expanded.
I definately qualified as a pod person when I was exgay. Talk about robotic stupidity.
On Aarons monster/outsider theme: That triggered a really fascinating memory. When I was in my late adolescence/early teens, I pretended I had a family of vampires living in my closet. They were there because they were really good vampires and were seeking refuge in my closet because the world outside thought they were bad but I understood them. How classic is that?
Oops, that should have been late childhood and not late adolescence.
Hey Hava Israel,
DL Foster was oh so impressed with a Jewish man who converted. He posted the Jewish version of Exodus, called Jonahweb.com
I checked it out.
How come despite the diversity among GAY people, EX gays all seem to say the same things over and over and over again with little variation.
For PFOX to enthuse about Cohen’s soundbite is truly scary.
Regan, yeah, the lesbian section on the Jonah site has an interview with Nicolosi as their first offering. It’s big time nauseating. The woman who’s conducting the interview is just as bad as he is. Women can’t be reached through reason and analytical processes, ya know. You need to reach them through nurturing and creativity, blahdi blah blah blah. Right. I spent a good deal of time connecting with my inner femme, but it just made me more realize I look better in flowing hippy dresses rather than tailored suits and I discovered that I really, really like to cook for holidays. My lipstick color is usually in the berry/wine family and knowing all of this, I’m still not sexually attracted to men. There’s apparently a very limited supply of information out there that actually supports the idea of ‘reparative therapy’! They have to use what they can get. My guess is that Jonah is a copycat organization, based on Exodus.
“… and the ex-gays looked at peace and happy”
People said the same thing about my dad in his coffin.
“My lipstick color is usually in the berry/wine family and knowing all of this, I’m still not sexually attracted to men.”
well, duh!! every good ex-gay knows that only bubble-gum pink lipstick is obsorbed by the cells in your lips and majically makes you lust for Tom Cruise.