Perhaps I’ve missed it, but I have yet to see substantive, civil public discussion about the wives and children who were also harmed in the tragedy depicted by “Brokeback Mountain.”
Were the wives and children harmed by:
- the mens’ effort to suppress their relationship via marriage,
- the mens’ adultery, post-marriage,
- the wives’ pre-marital ignorance of sexuality,
- the wives’ marital absence of options until divorce became socially tolerated
How can exgay ministries contribute to, or prevent, such tragedies?
(Links to other discussions of this issue are welcome.)
To give the ex-gay ministies some credit, most of them now seem to say “we don’t think you should marry right away, not for a few years at least”.
There used to be much more “you can be straight and get married” rhetoric. I suspect (though I have no proof) that they’ve seen too many instances where their “successful” ex-gays left spouses hurting and resentful of the ministries that encouraged the marriage to begin with.
Of course, there are those who loudly contradict their own official position (Alan Chambers comes to mind) by never opening their mouth without mentioning their “lovely wife of XX years and XX beautiful children”. They do send a very mixed message.
Certainly the movie shows the damage done to both women, and both relationships (although not so much the children – you only get to see a few glimpses of Jack’s son) from the men’s secretive lives. Michelle Williams is getting major nominations for her performance, and her character’s life is one of the many tragedies in this film. She does a superb job showing how devastated Alma is when she first learns the truth, and how embittered she becomes living with it.
We don’t know if the other wife, Ann Hathaway’s Lureen, knows about Jack, but their marriage is also shown as distant and bitter as time goes on. The change is most evident visually, and it is one of the great jokes of the film – as one review that I read put it (paraphrasing here) “the frostier her marriage became, the frostier her har gets.”
Check out GAY PATRIOT for their take on broken families. Quite a eyeopener.
Were the wives and children harmed by:
* the mens’ effort to suppress their relationship via marriage,
of course they were, but when society stops forcing men into a closet, less women will be hurt by men who aren’t really that attracted to them.
* the mens’ adultery, post-marriage,
well again, the women are hurt because groups lie the AFA, FOTF, and SBM are telling men get married, you be fixed if you have a women and that is rubbish. People need to be who they are, not some they are not. Regardless if it is gay or straight or green or pink. If you go into a committed relationship with secrets you are not willing to share the relationship is doomed.
* the wives’ pre-marital ignorance of sexuality,
well this is too braod to answer, we don’t know what the wives knowledge of sex is, and who are we to assume such things
* the wives’ marital absence of options until divorce became socially tolerated
well they still could have left, long before divorce was tolerated, wives left their husbands for any number of reasons. I am not so sure I buy into the whole idea that women needed to put up with it! They could have left anyway.
*How can exgay ministries contribute to, or prevent, such tragedies?
they could stop trying to provoke gay men into prenteding they are cute straight daddies. That would be a start. They could possibly adopt a stay away from marriage message that say to gay with unwanted sexual feelings that they need to not get anyone else invovled in their attempts to be straight. Since the evidence clearly points the the facts, that gay men cannot change their sexuality. If you have unwanted same-sex attractions then you such stay by yourself and not get a mate invovled.
I felt the most for Enis’ wife–and I find that his secrecy destroyed her the most. I have seen it happen in the lives of others. The movie had a realistic view of what happens in these situations.
Recently I wrote a blog entry about the effect of “ex-gay” ministries and marriages on straight spouses as I reflect on my own marriage of nearly seven years.
Some staright spouses affected by these types of marriages posted comments. I find their words VERY moving. What About the Spouse?
I thought it was odd where some of audience laughed when Ennis’s wife first saw Ennis and Jack kissing. But that laughter came to an abrupt halt as soon as the camera focused on the devastated look on her face. It was the dictionary-definition of “an arresting performance”. Very well done.
It was interesting that Michelle Williams’ emotionally crippled character was nearly a mirror of her husbands’. She was as incapable of expressing herself as he. And, wow what a performance! Contained,subtle, yet powerful.
Ann Hathaway, was out of her league, but saved by the make-up and the wigs. Nice for a comic contrast, but she wasn’t in the same movie. I wonder if some footage was left behind. I never picked up on her father’s loathing of her husband for example.
Sadly, there are alot of gay men out there on the “down low”. One would hope that they see this film. And for the life of me, I can see no reason why the “family” groups would opbject to this movie, unless they can’t bear the idea of “compassion”. It has no political agenda.
It was interesting that Michelle Williams’ emotionally crippled character was nearly a mirror of her husbands’. She was as incapable of expressing herself as he. And, wow what a performance! Contained,subtle, yet powerful.
Ann Hathaway, was out of her league, but saved by the make-up and the wigs. Nice for a comic contrast, but she wasn’t in the same movie. I wonder if some footage was left behind. I never picked up on her father’s loathing of her husband for example.
Sadly, there are alot of gay men out there on the “down low”. One would hope that they see this film. And for the life of me, I can see no reason why the “family” groups would opbject to this movie, unless they can’t bear the idea of “compassion”. It has no political agenda.
The walkout represents the biggest class confrontation in the US in a generation. The issues at stake are not peculiar to transport workers or public employees, but reflect the general drive to destroy wages, working conditions and benefits of workers throughout the economy, from the airlines to the auto industry.
Guess the source?
The World Socialists
O please I tried marrage celeabacy nothing worked but admitting that I am gay .Now I am happy .
Hmm…the wives’ lack of premarital knowledge….
If I recall correctly, Lureen was in the back seat with Jack after their first meeting in a bar. She had no trouble apparently getting disrobed above (and presumably below) the waist.
I think that perhaps an interesting topic would be the bisexuality of both men at least in the beginning — neither one seemed to be repulsed by female flesh.
I remember something I heard on a pro-gay PBS program spoken by a GLBT individual: “Many people have trouble with it, but most gay people are bisexual.”
I think if we were to take a count: many of us on board here who ARE for all practical purposes gay — have had our pleasant experiences especially in our youth.
Question is: does it last or does it go away as I see with Jack and Ennis — what is core remains I think.
“I think that perhaps an interesting topic would be the bisexuality of both men at least in the beginning — neither one seemed to be repulsed by female flesh.”
Anonymous, the problem is in definition.
Bisexuality is not generally defined as “not being repulsed by female flesh”. It takes more than the ability for some guy in his teens to sexually function with a woman for him to be bisexual. The orientation of his attraction and affection would have to be equally (or at least reasonably equally) towards both sexes.
I had dinner Christmas Eve with seven other guys who were all gay. By that I mean that they have little to no sexual interest in women. And yet half had at least once had a sexual experience with a woman – two of them had dated women. And if they had to choose between no sexual contact at all or contact with a woman, possibly one or more would choose a woman (sex is a powerful drive). And yet none are bisexual – all are stongly oriented towards men.
SPOILER ALLERT
In the case of the protagonists of the story, once off the mountain their society gave them precisely that choice: either sex with a woman or none at all. This was clear from Jack’s fumbling attemts at meeting guys – the threat was clear and real. But the choice was not a clean selection, either a or b. Rather, it was clear to both of them that their choice was really either sex with a woman or else!
And yet, they each eventually could not sustain a sexual relationship with a woman. Jack’s marriage “could be phoned in” and Ennis was content to “not bother” Alma. When Ennis got involved again with a woman, it was with reluctance, at her initiation, and cut off without explanation once he saw Jack again.
These were not bisexual men who could find sexual and emotional satisfaction with women. They tried. They both chose no sex over sex with women. These were gay men (regardless of what Jake Gyllenhaal may think).
One of the anonymous said, “I never picked up on her father’s loathing of her husband for example.”
Did you go out for popcorn a couple times? He threw his car keys at Jeck and said “Rodeo can that stuff out of the car(or words to that effect).” Later when Jack was demo-driving a rig at the farm equipment store, another employee said, “Didn’t that piss-ant used to ride bulls?” and Jack’s father-in-law snorted, “He tried to.”
It’s a pretty damn economical movie, but got the point across… Jack was loathed by his father-in-law.