Tucked away on their CitizenLink, Focus On Social Issues, Homosexuality and Gender page Focus issues a rebuttal to various charges made by Soulforce against James Dobson.
Soulforce Makes 8 “Charges” Against Dr. Dobson:
1. “Dobson says that homosexuality is a mental disorder caused by family problems and bad parenting.”
The truth:
Here, Soulforce greatly distorts Dobson’s views on the root causes of homosexuality. In fact, Dobson and many others in the mental health field see homosexuality as a developmental condition stemming from a combination of factors — including, but not limited to, dysfunctional family relationships.
Focus, just reiterates exactly what they’re annoyed at Soulforce for having accused Dobson of having said. This is so idiotic it makes my brian hurt. Let’s jump to charge number 4:
4. “Dobson says homosexuality can be prevented by parents and cured through ‘reparative therapy’.”
The truth:
Since evidence shows that homosexuality is best seen as a developmental condition resulting from a combination of factors (see #1), to say that it is preventable in the family setting is accurate. However, Dr. Dobson does not use the term “cure” when referring to the various approaches used by therapists in assisting individuals seeking to reorient their sexual identity. Here, Soulforce is putting words into Dr. Dobson’s mouth.
Changing one’s sexual identity isn’t just a “right-wing Christian” thing. Not only have thousands of people come out of their homosexual identities based upon firmly held religious convictions, many people in the secular arena have also changed their sexual orientation.
Wait… So you mean change is possible without Jesus? No, Focus couldn’t possibly stick to that line; Let’s look at another document published by Focus, “Straight Answers: Exposing the Myths and Facts About Homosexuality“
“The road begins not with just giving up on the gay life, not with trying to relate with a woman, not with just trying to relate to other men in a different way; it begins with coming into a relationship with God”
So do I need Jesus to be straight or not? I’m confused… Focus is confused… Once again, my brain hurts. (And it’s not because I went to The Abbey, a popular bar frequented by homosexuals, the last two nights in a row.) Again Focus just reiterates exactly what Soulforce said-they-said so Focus decides to respond saying-it-again in case we didn’t swallow their snake oil the first time.
Focus does have a legitimate grievance, it’s true Soulforce paraphrased Dobson and he never actually said the word “cure.” Just for the record, he said:
“reversed”
“treated”
“reformed”
“turn their boys around” (it’s ok to snicker at this one)
“prevented”
“treatable”
“permanent change”
Let’s make it very clear, under no circumstances has Dobson ever said “cure” per say, just seven words that basically mean the same thing.
There are plenty more comedic gems in Focus’ rebuttal but I chose two in the interest of time and relevance to ex-gay issues. Rest assured the rest of the document is as poorly thought out as what I’ve cited here. Interestingly, the subtitle of Focus’ rebuttal article is “Soulforce’s Rhetoric is Shrill and Vitriolic.” No, I’d say Soulforce is simply brining attention to what James Dobson has said virtually word-for-word and presenting medical facts agreed upon by the vast majority of medical professionals. It’s Focus that responds with wild and questionable rhetoric. Did Focus have a little office party some Friday afternoon and after discovering the punch had been spiked the only person left to write this was a slightly inebriated intern? No, sadly it was written by what appears to be a full-grown and literate adult, Kermit Rainman, Social Research Analyst at Focus and ex-gay extraordinaire. I mean really, I think Soulforce’s rally event is childish but this rebuttal written by Rainman is just nonsensical tripe. It’s little surprise his talking points have have been absent from Focus radio broadcasts this last week.
If you look at all the answers – basically Focus is saying that Soulforce is correct – they just try to take the negative edge off of Soulforce’s interpretation of statements by Focus.
Regan,
I appreciate your support for tolerance, but when you use the same tactics (generalizations, vague accusations, namecalling) that James Dobson is accused of using, you undermine your cause.
If you have specific conversations with specific individuals, then please name the individuals, cite the date and place of the conversation, and quote the conversations verbatim. Otherwise, please refrain from claims that cannot be substantiated.
Thanks.
Thank you MikeA,
In defense of XGW I will say that I have seen you exercise fairness in requiring substantiation for accusations lobbed against the exgay community. And I applaud you for that. I have myself taken up that principle as much as I can, so to your credit you have affected me. Not that my accusations have not had some form of substantiation, but that I didnt take time to cite them.
I was extremely wary about dialoging with Ms DuCasse when it became apparent that she was being confrontational for the sheer thrill of it. And her constant bullying and “loud” harangues of myself and others (she posts on Keith Boykin in the same manner) had not been put in check.
Hopefully, after your rebuke she will improve and perhaps earn some conversation with me (if she wants to). I am willing and capable of mature dialogue –even if it is disagreeable– but some people do not deserve my time if all they bring to the table is harpyesque emotionalism.
I read much of FOTF’s rebuttal until, like Dan, it made my head hurt. Evidently Liberty college doesn’t offer a course in logic.
The one statement I am sick of hearing the ex/anti-gay groups say – and which is repeated again on their rebuttal – is “… there is ample proof that homosexuality is changeable and that nobody is “born gay.” ”
Just when was it proven that nobody is born gay?
Did I miss that study? Or is that really along the lines of “I’ll just SAY no one is born gay and that’s proof enough for me”.
I really wish these so-called Chritians belived that God doesn’t need you to lie on his behalf.
“turn their boys around” (it’s ok to snicker at this one)
I haven’t paid much attention here (no, really) but this little snippet shows their sexism.
“Turn their boys around?
There are female gay people. They’re called something like “lesbians.”
Turn their boys around?
There is something seriously wrong with these people.
Hi folks,
Just remember that there are all kinds of sexual behavior in the world. The Word of God only validates one kind of sexual behavior and that is a happy, safe sexual relationship between a man and a woman who have pledged their lives together through a holy union called marriage. The Bible says in Genesis 2:20-25
v20…but for Adam no suitable helper was found. v21 So the Lord caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
v22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
v23 The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man.”
v24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
v25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
Precious people, you have just read of the very first marriage between a man and a woman, performed by the Creator, God himself!
God never personally performed another marriage elsewhere in the Bible. The only other marriage that God will perform personally is the marriage between Christ and the Church, (the Church is called the “Bride of Christ”).
Revelations 19:7&8 says:
v7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
v8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)
This is the only other marriage which will be performed by God himself. Both times the pronoun used to refer to the groom’s spouse was “her”.
Anything outside of that God has never sanctioned!
So remember: anything that God has not sanctioned is outside of the norm: and is therefore a variant or deviation from His sanctioned sexual behavior. Deviation is where the word: deviant comes from. What it means is that if you deviate from sex between a husband and a (female) wife, then you are practicing what is called: “deviant” sexual behavior.
What all of us must remember is that God gave Adam a beautiful female wife from his own flesh to be his lifetime partner and companion. That was God’s plan from the beginning and still is!
We must all remember that having a passion or stong desire for something doesn’t make it right! Hitler had a strong, intense desire to assasinate 6,000,000 Jews! Was he right in doing that, of course not! Assassins and Murderers have a strong passion to assasinate and murder innocent people! Is that justified? No! We know that! There are men who love to fornicate with little children. Would you let your two-year-old girl marry a grown man, because he felt it was a natural thing for him to do? They have a powerful drive to do so! Does that make it acceptable before God, just because they have a strong desire to do so? How could it?
There are, sadly to say, people who have a natural inclination to mate with animals. Does that make it right before God, because they have an inclination to do so?
I ask you this question: “Which sin is right before God?” Any sin he denounced in the Scriptures as being wrong was simply that: Wrong! No justification necessary. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong! Period! End of debate! Folks, understand that I love you and God loves you but there is no justification for homosexuality, for it is forbidden in scripture, (Romans 1:26 & 27; Leviticus 18:6-23 describes various kinds of deviant sexual behavior, with v22 stating: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, for that is detestable). So I agree and affirm what Dr. Dobson says, wholeheartedly! He wants all of us to go to Heaven, therefore he must preach the truth. If you want to go to Heaven when you die, then ask God to forgive you of all your sins and to come into your heart and be the protector and leader of your entire heart and life and he’ll do it! Look these scriptures up: Romans 10:9&10, John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8&9; John 14:6. Remember, the Word of God says in Proverbs 14:12 & 16:25–“There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.” Just because it seems or feels right, doesn’t mean it is! God loves you and so do I!
Love ya, DadLeverett
P.S. Dear Lord, I ask that you will enlighten each and every heart that hears and reads these words! Show them the truth as you see it and not as the world sees it! I pray for each and every one of them to find You in a new and different way! In Jesus’ Name I pray, Amen!
The Hitler comparison is a bit much, but I doubt anyone here would disagree with the idea that passion does not equal morality. However, Dobson’s stand is based not only on the Bible but also on mental health. Here he disagrees with the major psychiatric and medical organizations by considering homosexuality to be a disorder that can be prevented and reversed. Obviously religions can declare any number of things sinful, but when Dobson makes statements on mental health, he must work with the verifiable reality that all belief systems share.
Dadleverett, what matters is how we treat each other, not the gender of the one we love. Any act that brings two conscenting adults pleasure which does not hurt you or anyone else is a good thing. God has no say in my life, only fairness.
Even more importantly, Irrational Entity, to accept DadLeverett’s pronouncements is to explicitly accept not only the general validity of the book that he calls the “bible,” but also the specific translation of that set of writings, and the specific interpretation of those writings chosen by Mr. Dobson to believe. In other words, it requires one to rely on the very fallible men and women who wrote the “bible” books, who translated those books, and who interpreted their general, and often vague meanings.
For example, the Adam and Eve creation myth is one of two creation myths in the Book of Genesis, and is only one of dozens, if not hundreds, of creation myths accepted by various ancient peoples. To believe as DadLeverett believes requires us to have enormous faith in whoever selected those two specific myths to include in an ancient Jewish text, and that personally is a faith I cannot claim.
DadLeverett, you may be very happy and content in your choice of religious lifestyle, but you must also understand that many of us, myself included, have consciously, and only after profound contemplation, chosen to not believe that same set of religious/moral doctrine. Nonetheless, as the rabbi Jesus of Nazareth taught in the parable of the Good Samaritan, one cannot measure the value or worth of a person by the religious or other lifestyle choices that person has made.
DadLeverett
You seem like a nice man. However, your analogy of Adam and Eve is downright foolish.
First, Scripture never says that Adam and Eve were “married” by God or anyone else. That is your own assumption and to declare this to be a marriage when Scripture does not define it as such is hugely arrogant.
Second, using Adam as our example clearly indicates that the only person we are to marry is one created out of a rib removed from our body. Also using Adam, we have to believe that we must marry every other person alive on the planet. Or perhaps we should wait for God himself to personally select a spouse for us. Or perhaps we should be naked and unashamed. After all, these were all true for Adam so therefore (by your analogy) they must be true for us.
That’s obviously silly and not God’s plan for us. But that’s what you brought as your example. Using Adam as an example may appeal to a simplistic mind, but it demonstrates an immature understanding of Scripture.
Also, let’s look at your denunciations:
“Any sin he denounced in the Scriptures as being wrong was simply that: Wrong! No justification necessary. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong! Period! End of debate!”
Do you really believe this? Let’s see:
Shellfish? Wrong!
Sex during menstuation? Wrong!
Not impregnating your sister-in-law? Wrong!
Women speaking in church? Wrong!
Slaves seeking to escape slavery? Wrong!
Ah, DadLeverett, it just isn’t all as easy as you’d like it to be, is it? Unfortunately, a relationship with God requires more than just parroting back what your preacher said. It requires more than memorizing select passages and igoring others.
And, sadly, when you sign up to criticize others, you may just find that you are judged by the measure you use to judge. If you use Leviticus, God will hold you to Leviticus. If you use Paul’s exhortations, God will hold you to be in compliance with all of them (including the one advising against marriage). But if you use grace, understanding, and a refusal to judge, that’s the measure God will use with you.
Of course! And since Adam and Eve were white, that means that God never sanctioned interracial marriages, either (to paraphrase Charles Carroll)!