Greetings, Everyone!
Thanks very much to Mike for giving me the chance to guest-blog on his site. XGW is a great resource, and I’m excited by the challenge of being part of it. I was hoping to get a post up before now, but work has (unexpectedly) been intense this week.
First, a bit about me: as Mike mentioned I am a gay Mormon and I was involved with the Mormon ex-gay group, Evergeen, for several years. I’m also one of 13 children. Of my brothers and sisters I’m the only one who is out as gay (I have one brother I have reason to suspect…but that’s a long story for another time). Of my 60+ nephews and nieces, I think a handful are probably gay but none have yet come out. My family adheres to a particularly conservative brand of Mormonism. My father taught theology and philosophy at Brigham Young University for 40 years, and imbued his children with a very authoritarian worldview.
I mention all of this because it is relevant to my understanding of both gay and ex-gay issues. I understand well the conformative pressures facing people who are gay, but who choose not to come out or live their lives identifying as ex-gay. For me, it’s not an open-and-shut case; I see legitimate reasons why someone could choose to identify as ex-gay.
I paid a high price, personally, for my choices. When I finally came out for good, my parents cut off contact with me and pressured my siblings to do so as well. I had virtually no contact with my family for almost ten years (this only changed a couple of years ago, when two of my straight brothers distanced themselves from my parents and re-established contact with me). I have seen my parents only twice in the past decade and I suspect I won’t see them again while they are alive. Having said all that, I can also say honestly that I couldn’t be happier with the choices I’ve made. I have a wonderful life: I’m happy, healthy, and in a great relationship with the best guy in the world.
So…these are some of the things that form my frame of reference in the gay/ex-gay debate. In addition, my politics are libertarian, and my educational training is in Psychology/Sociology.
In my thinking and writing, I find myself returning consistently to the intersection between liberty and morality. As gay people, most of us are presented in childhood with a version of morality that we ultimately cannot accept because it is predicated on a lie–the lie that the way we love is a "sin" and that our existence is somehow unnatural or anomalous.
Once we reject that lie, too many of us reject anything thereafter that smacks of "morality." For the sake of our emotional and mental health, I think that’s a bad approach. As I blog on XGW, I hope to start a conversation (even if it’s only with myself!) about integrating our liberty to live honestly and openly as gay people into a larger cultural context that addresses the limits of that liberty.
Welcome Joe!
Re: “most of us are presented in childhood with a version of morality that…is predicated on a lie… Once we reject that lie, too many of us reject anything thereafter that smacks of ‘morality.'”
Excellent observation! This has been an continual issue for many of us in the gay community, but it is an exceptionally unpopular opinion to express, as I’m sure you’re well aware. I look forward to the conversation.
Thanks Jim! In retrospect, I think it sounds a little self-important to say I’d like to “start” a conversation on gay morality…I’m well aware that lots of others are already weighing in.
However, I do think it will be interesting to discuss gay morality in the *specific* context of the XGW site.
After all, the only real difference I see between gay people and ex-gay people is that ex-gays feel that coming out = losing their moral bearings.
Oh, my, a Mormon! So many of them are so cute.
Slaps face: Sorry, back to reality.
Are you aware of the web site https://www.exmormon.org (question mark)
(NB: I don’t do punctuation at the end of a URL because it frequently causes an error when someone wants to click on it or copy it to the address line of the browser)
More than a few of the stories there are from gay people who were kicked out of the Mormon church because they were gay.
I’ll be interested in your thoughts about the “intersection between liberty and morality.” This could get fun.
Thanks for sharing your story. I have a suprisingly similar one, just switch Baptist for Mormon…even the number of kids is extremely close…lol. I also have 2 brothers who have chosen to remain in contact, albeight very sporadically. Makes life interesting.
raj asks, “Are you aware of the web site https://www.exmormon.org“
boy, am i ever. if you REALLY have a lot of time on your hands, you can go check out a longer version of my story posted there: https://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/index.php?bn=exmobb_biography
i wrote that in 2001, and i’d actually forgotten about it until raj’s note reminded me…
Welcome Joe!
It’s nice to see a fresh new view on this blog. I’m looking forward into reading your articles.
BTW, the link you provided us didn’t work. Luckily your story is the only one that mentions Evergreen, so I managed to find it easily:
https://www.exmormon.org/bio/mormon_bio015.htm
I was just reading Joe Riddle’s story about being Mormon and gay. I am in the same boat Joe is in, except (thankfully) my parents (both LDS) accepted me and love me unconditionally. I was one of the lucky ones in this case.
I find Joe’s story (in connection with his parents and family) sad and disheartening. I wonder how a father and mother (in his case) could believe in a living prophet of God and then reject their child and encourage their other children to do the same when Gordon B. Hinckley has told parents on numerous occasions to embrace and love their children who are homosexual. I still don’t understand a lot of the Mormons who live in Utah. I live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.
Thanks, Joe for your comments. Finally, an honest voice who recognizes that intersection of liberty and morality. As a still-in-the-closet Christian man, this very idea makes me hesitant about coming out. My biggest fear is that my family will associate my being gay with the absolute worst elements of the gay lifestyle (hyper-promiscuity, drug use, etc.) – a fate that is truly worse than death. My personal search is for that one great Christian guy with which to share my life. Perhaps this is an echoing of the Apostle Paul who warned the early church that freedom in Christ does mean license for everything. So, thanks to Joe for bringing it to light.
Jack, there’s no such thing as the ‘gay lifestyle.’ What you describe there is a heinous stereotype. If you do come out to your family, emphasize that you do not fit that steriotype, that you have strong Christian principals and that you’re the same nice guy as they’ve known you.
Good luck!
Interesting premise you have here. As a gay ex-Mormon, I always find it informative to see how others who grew up in Mormonism react to the decisions they are forced to make in order to be at peace with themselves. I look forward to seeing more from you on this topic. In regards to some previous posts, the Mormon church’s views on how to treat homosexuals has varied widely even in recent history, so to have parents who completely shun their gay offspring is not an unpardonable offense (at least from a theological standpoint). Also, realize that since Joe’s father has been a teacher at BYU, he has probably born witness to the very brutal nature of the church’s philosophy in dealing with homosexuals in their midst. It is all nice and good to hear the living prophet say “love the sinner” but to have that backed up with historic actions that more closely resemble “tie the sinner to a stake and borrow a non-member’s Zippo” can make for some confusion on which line of action to follow. At the same time, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Benjamin (see post above) is blessed with really great parents who are not very good Mormons. That is to say, unconditional love is to love without conditions or limitations and in my opinion it is impossible to say your love for someone is without conditions or limitations if you are unable to accept them. Since the Mormon church teaches that a substantial portion of your behavior will in all probability lead to an eternity spent in outer darkness, then they should be compelled to bear witness to this fact to you on a daily basis, or at least live in a state of continual worry for your spiritual well-being. No where in current church philosopy is there any mention of acceptance, so it must follow that in order for your parents to love you unconditionally (at least by my definition) they must ignore and/or disobey the teachings of the church. Hence, Good Parents=Bad Mormons.Me, I have only so-so parents who are pretty good Mormons: They try to love me with as few conditions as they can manage, while at the same time living in a guilt-ridden state. Early on they tried to do their parently duty and bear witness to the fact that I was going to spend all eternity in outer darkness (they actually GAVE me a “To The One” pamphlet) but I sat them down and gave them a talking to. I think that was the first moment that they realized that I was an adult. I also look forward to more discussion on the “rejection of all things moral” concept. I think that this might be an oversimplification? Why can’t it be a “rejection of one set of morals for another set” or “an examination and audit of current morals” or even “a thought-out decision that a given moral set (or sub-set thereof) is a drag and can be ignored or eliminated without causing damage to a person’s overall moral standing”?