Building on David Robert’s post on the Richard Cohen portion of The Rachel Maddow Show, Randy Thomas, Vice President of Exodus International, had some things to say about the exchange.
Randy Thomas: I am going to share a review of the actual interview and then move into how I believe she, and some other militant gay activists, are missing the point with regard to Uganda’s anti-homosexuality bill.
Transcript, edited for brevity, emphases mine:
MADDOW: But you have told them, particularly in your book, “Coming Out Straight,” which I understand you donated multiple copies of to this organization that‘s promoting this bill. You‘re telling them exactly what they need to hear in order to justify the kill-the-gays bill. I mean, your book portrays gay people as predators who must be stopped to protect the innocent.
COHEN: Oh, no, no, no.
MADDOW: Let me ask – I‘ll just read from your book, OK? Page 49, “Homosexuals are at least 12 times more likely to molest children than heterosexuals. Homosexual teachers are at least seven times more likely to molest a pupil. Homosexual teachers are estimated to have committed at least 25 percent of pupil molestation; 40 percent of molestation assaults were made by those who engage in homosexuality.”
This is the claim that you make in your book that exactly feeds these folks who want to execute people for being gay, what they need in order to justify that. Do you stand by what you said in your book?
COHEN: Actually, you know, that one particular quote, when I do republish it, reprint it, we will extract that from it, because we don‘t want such things to be used against homosexual persons.
MADDOW: That quote is cited – you cite somebody named Paul Cameron as the source of that book.
COHEN: I see that they‘re using it, but you took that one little quote out of a 300-page book.
“you took that one little quote out of a 300-page book”
That “one little quote” may be edited out of Cohen’s next revision, but it’s a paltry excision in light of the other “little” quotes in his book.
But first, a bit of context. Cohen cites Dr. Joseph Nicolosi—co-founder of the anti-gay organization, NARTH (National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality)—repeatedly, in the effort to demonstrate (simplified) that same-sex attraction can be “overcome,” and that it all boils down to distant same-sex parenting, or clingy opposite-sex parenting.
Much of Cohen’s book is dedicated to promulgating the concept that gays can become straight–a key factor in justifying the passage of anti-gay laws, and the non-passage of pro-equality laws.
Richard Cohen, Coming Out Straight: NARTH conducted a survey of 860 respondents and found that those who want to change their sexual orientation may succeed. [p24]
In addition to the Paul Cameron “research” that Cohen asserts he will take out of his next reprint, there are several other cases of misused studies that were not mentioned in the interview.
Included are some of the anti-gay industry’s favorites to show that gay men are unfaithful sluts at heart (you monogamous lesbians, as usual, are safe on this front).
Richard Cohen, Coming Out Straight: The Gay Rights Movement, the media, the educational system, and the mental-health profession tell use that homosexuality is normal and natural. Let us observe some of the statistics about homosexual behavior and see if this condition is, in fact, normal:
“The Kinsey Institute published a study of homosexual males living in San Francisco which reports that 43 percent had sex with 500 or more partners, 28 percent had sex with 1,000 or more partners, and 79 percent said that over half of their sex partners were strangers.” [p48]
(Ergo, all gay men are male nymphomaniacs.)
That “particular” quote is footnoted as: Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978) , 308-312
As Alvin McEwen of Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters reports:
A citation of the book Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women by Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg as a correct generalization of lgbt sexual habits despite the fact that it was written in 1978 and was not meant by the authors to be a correct assessment of the lgbt community in general…
…“. . . given the variety of circumstances which discourage homosexuals from participating in research studies, it is unlikely that any investigator will ever be in a position to say that this or that is true of a given percentage of all homosexuals.”
We then get the claims that gays and lesbians are more prone to drug and alcohol abuse, that gay teen suicides are over reported, and that gay men are “six times more likely to have attempted suicide than heterosexual men.”
And then, on cue, we are given one of the anti-gay industry’s most famous misused study from the 1984 McWhirter and Mattison book, The Male Couple, to show that 95% of male couples are unfaithful.
Yet, from the first page of the Introduction, we find this disclaimer:
We always have been very careful to explain that the very nature of our research sample, its size (156 couples), its narrow geographic location [San Diego], and the natural selectiveness of the participants prevents the findings from being applicable and generalizable to the entire gay male community. Stricktly speaking, the sample is neither large enough, randomly selected nor geographically dispersed enough to represent necessarily the majority of male couples. As behavioral scientists we cannot report our conclusions as being derived from a representative sample.
That is then compared with a survey boasting of a “93.6 percent” fidelity rate among married heterosexual couples.
(Or, in reality based terms: Only 6.4 percent of married heterosexual couples surveyed were willing to admit that they were adulterous cheaters.)
Only THEN do we get to the Paul Cameron child molestation quote that Rachel Maddow confronts Cohen with. And to Randy Thomas’ credit, he does denounce Paul Cameron as “debunked” and “quite hateful.”
Immediately after that litany of slander, Mr. Cohen has this to say:
…Members of the homosexual community argue that social intolerance and prejudice cause these destructive behaviors. I believe there is some merit to this argument. However, the deeper reason for these unhealthy behaviors is the emotional brokenness that caused the homosexual condition in the first place. The social prejudice merely exacerbates the already-existing pain lodged deep in their souls. [p49]
And exacerbate that social prejudice he does.
It remains to be seen whether these defamatory claims will be redacted from the next revision of his book, but the damage is done and his message received; same-sex attraction can be reversed, therefore it is a choice, and gay men are super-slut child molesters.
Randy Thomas: But here’s the point I really want to make; saving Ugandan lives doesn’t appear to be Maddow and friends top priority, bashing alternate views does.
gay men are sex-fiends = alternative view
The exposition of this tawdry laundry list of anti-gay hate-speech would seem to be what Randy Thomas, Vice President of Exodus International, would have us believe is responsible for the ‘victimization’ of Richard Cohen by Rachel Maddow.
Further:
She did not use any of that precious air time in actually helping the Ugandan people defeat this bill…
…In her very long segment, Rachel didn’t change a thing in her world, our world or help save Ugandan lives.
As a “militant homosexual activist,” Mr. Thomas, need I remind you of Ecclesiastes 3:8:
a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.
This is one of those times, Mr. Thomas. To hate lies and to war against them. If you can’t see that, might I suggest you move into a non-glass house?
Ugh. What a shortsighted assessment of the interview.
How was it an unwarranted personal attack to use Cohen’s lack of credentials against him? If a person practises therapy and presents himself as an expert on a subject, don’t we expect him to meet certain professional standards?
Nor was there anything wrong in bringing up Cohen’s marital infidelity. Cohen is the one who constantly uses his marriage to validate his claims. You can’t use evidence to make public claims and then declare that evidence out of bounds for public criticism. That’s called having your cake and eating it.
(Randomly attacking ex-gays’ marriages simply because they’re ex-gay, on the other hand, is unacceptable. But where a person themselves brings issues into the public sphere to try to prove a point or promote an opinion, it becomes a legitimate target of criticism.)
not to mention there were two major studies indicating that adultery in hetero marriages is something around 25%. this is osmething i wrote to the Chrnicle on This very subject last year. and it also involved yet another former homosexual, or no mo’ sexual, or fauxmosexual.
” David Benkof’s diatribe against gay marriage, like much of what he writes on the subject, is very long on ideology innuendo, but very short on fact or logic. Benkof claims that gay men (gay women, I guess, are not important) do not believe that “sexual exclusivity is an essential component of a proper marriage”. He sites as his ‘evidence’ a website, http://www.buddybuddy.com , that he ‘stumbled across’. He adds insult to slander by pointing out adulterous heterosexual politicians who support full marriage equality. After all, if men who cannot honor their marriage vows support marriage equality, what does that say about marriage equality?
Frankly, none of this says anything about marriage equality, but it does say a great deal about Mr. Benkof. The website in question is just a website, one of hundreds of gay oriented resource websites. It is not ‘evidence’, and it is no more representative of the gay community than Benkof is.
Yes, some well known adulterers support marriage equality. And some well known adulterers– Ted Haggard, David Vitter, Larry Craig, Kwame Kilpatrick, and Bill Clinton, to name just a few– oppose it. And lots of people who honor their marriages support gay marriage, and lots oppose it.
So what exactly is the point?
The point is the hypocrisy that permeates Benkof’s article, and indeed, the whole marriage debate. Two of the most reliable studies on heterosexual adultery come to similar conclusions. The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior says that “More than one-third of men and one-quarter of women admit having had at least one extramarital sexual experience.” A survey by the National Opinion Research Center (University of Chicago) found lower percentages: 25 percent of men had been unfaithful and 17 percent of women.
The actual figures are probably higher. I don’t think people like to admit adultery, even to complete strangers. In short, heterosexuals have no corner on the morality market in this issue.
Why is it that the alleged attitude of some gay men only towards sexual exclusivity is sufficient justification to deny all gay people legal marriage, but the demonstrated infidelity of at least 25% of married heterosexuals is irrelevant? That any given couple should be denied the right to marry because others behave unacceptably is no more applicable to gay people than to straight people.
Unless, of course, hypocrisy is now as moral as adultery.”
And in the case of thse moral bankrupts, it is.
Randy Thomas doesn’t care about Cohen. Randy cares about himself. He doesn’t want to be criticized for his potential guilt in human rights violations against gay people in Uganda.
After all, Randy praised Exodus Board Member Shmierer’s involvement in the conference that set the stage for the death penalty for homosexuality in Uganda. Randy defiantly stated that he wasn’t going to be pushed by activists to take a stand on Uganda. Randy (along with Alan Chambers) sat quietly at Exodus as the Ugandan Death Penalty Bill moved forward in the Ugandan legislature.
Only after about 10 months of building pressure, particularly when the mainstream media started pointing out the connections between American Evangelicals and this death penalty for gays bill did Randy and Alan finally step forward and condemn the bill.
The interview that Maddow did with Cohen could have been done with Randy Thomas or Alan Chambers. Now, don’t get me wrong, nobody is quite as talented as Cohen in making a fool of themselves on national television. That would be a high bar to meet. But Alan and Randy would be suitably unable to defend their actions and inactions with regard to Uganda.
So, like I said in the beginning. Randy’s post about Cohen was really just an attempt to defend Randy.
This is MY favorite quote from his article.
My dad was a baptist preacher and I had a great childhood. I grew up in a loving house and was brought up in the baptist church and I believe that God is my personal Savior. The fact that you can say that someone is gay due to the lacking affection of a parent or someone “clinging” to a same sex parent is not founded. This sort of thinking only flames the fire of intolerance against gay people. Gay people that stand up for their rights are not “militant gay activists”. We are people that want to love and be loved just like anyone else.
I’m sorry to bring this visual to XGW, but Randy is so far up himself that all you can see are a couple of ankles waving to the world.
At which point — at what sort of ugly point — could Randy ever bring himself to declare Exodus, and those they support, are in the wrong? I don’t mean the mealy-mouthed “I don’t always agree with X”, but a plain and simple confession.
Rachel Maddow didn’t create this situation Randy… your people did.
Thanks for that, M. Smith. I never really knew how to respond to the accusation of “militancy.” What you just said, brought it home for me—it shouldn’t be considered “militant” or “extreme” when on is fighting for one’s own life and the lives of others. It should just be considered the right thing to do, militant or otherwise, but it shouldn’t be used as an epithet.
—
Emily 😉
Any circumstance? Even if you are the one who’s responsible for the sin? Even if you have and continue to have ties to the sin? Even if you turn a blind eye to the sin? You base your “success” in ex-gayChristendom as contentment?
Where does your absence of responsibility end, Mr. Thomas?
Do you really think that your memories do not carry over into the next life? And when you do become aware of the consequences of your actions, do you really thing Christ can make you forgive yourself without interfering with your own free-will of thought?
You have many pennies to concede, Mr. Thomas. Number one being that this is isn’t about you, or your personal contentment.
You complain that we
godlessmilitant homosexual activists are doing nothing to help the Ugandan situation, but shouldn’t that mean that we shouldn’t be expected to know any better? Or worse, are incapable of being reached anyway?Yet you plead ignorance when it comes to the wordplay and outright slander that your organization markets on a daily basis.
Just because the word ‘change’ means a transformation of identity into Christ—to you—doesn’t mean that your organization is marketing it that way, it isn’t. And if you wish for your complaints to be taken seriously, this is something you are going to need to acknowledge.
A relationship with Christ reflects a love without limit or arbitrary judgment. To say that “the proof of my success is my contentment” is to mock the very idea of such love.
The goal is to maintain connection with that contentment-in-Christ in the midst of contention with critics.
When you decide to wake up and acknowledge the pain that you and your organization has caused, there are a slew of friends you have here who would joyfully befriend you and be willing to talk cordially about differences of opinion. Including me.
Until then, I, and others here, will continue to watch and report—militantly.
I really do not like to attack people’s character, but Cohen reminds me so much of LOTR’s Gollum. A character that looks funny, shy and unsuspecting.
But no one knows what is going on in the mind. And amidst that confusion, evil is unleashed. Usually the most “content” looking beings end up the most dangerous.
Just like the man who killed Harvey Milk (apologies, forgot the name). No one, even Milk, knew what was coming on.
Dos this surprise anyone? Randy Thomas is pathological liar and Maddow who brings out the truth about the actions of Christians and the people like Thomas WHO MADE THIS HAPPEN is naturally his enemy.
When do you see that Randy is a front for powers who will not stiop until this kind of laws are enforced in USA too. Remember: Randy advocated for and supported sodomy statutes i.e. jailing people in US for being gay.
Any crackpot gaybasher or lunatic is worth defeniding if there is a chance to hurt gays who live their lives out and proud. The sole goal of randy is to hurt every single gay man and woman in this country as much as possible.
Exodus International is financially supported by many large christian fundamentalist organizations. Randy is spouting their party line. He has to.
Hard core fundamentalists hate homosexuals. Sometimes it’s amusing to watch how Mr. Thomas, Mr. Chambers et al, try to please everybody in order to keep their careers intact.
You’re playing with the big boys now, Randy, but you can always fold your cards and walk away. Yea, we’ll give you a sympathetic pat on the back, but then some of us will tell you…”Don’t you ever do it again!”
So, Randy is complaining that Rachel Maddow isn’t doing anything for Ugandans because of what happened with Cohen?
She’s not responsible for this danger to Ugandan gays and lesbians to begin with!
And SHE is doing a great deal for them by exposing Richard Cohen and all the others associated with this outrage for the repellent people they are.
And in doing so, perhaps can keep them from doing FURTHER damage.
And M Smith,
There is no human being that should have to beg, or be begrudged something so basic and fundamental to human need and life itself.
Loving and being loved.
There should be no one (and especially organized religion and politics) denying that you deserve it or can give it.
Yet, I see this as an EXPECTATION for gay people at every level and for every aspect of life.
To say nothing of self reliance.
How is it ANY other person’s right to TAKE AWAY love and self reliance FROM another citizen?
That’s not in ANY religious book I can think of, and even if it were….SOMEONE would write a Constitution and Bill of Rights….
oh yeah…that’s right….
Randy Thomas has a lot of nerve to suggest that “saving Ugandan lives doesn’t appear to be Maddow and friends top priority.” I’m sure I’m not the only one who remembers what Randy said a few months ago, about how he would personally visit Uganda and plead for the freedom of gay and lesbian Ugandans if he had the opportunity. And what did he do instead shortly after saying that? Went on an Exodus-funded trip to London and had himself a fabulous time. What an unimaginable hypocrite.
And Emily K, I also like that quote! If we were to translate that into English from the original Exodus-Speak, it would read, “The proof of my success is, uh, well… just take my word for it.”