From PinkNews.co.uk:
Gay pressure groups have accused an “ex-gay” organisation of “inviting child abuse” after claiming children with gender identity issues should be exposed to bullying.
A coalition of organisations monitoring groups claiming to convert gay people back to heterosexuality, have criticised the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuals (NARTH) after a member advocated teasing transgender children to “re-establish that necessary boundary.”
NARTH Scientific Advisory Committee member Joseph Berger said on a blog in reaction to a San Francisco Chronicle article on gender identity issues, “I suggest, indeed, letting children who wish go to school in clothes of the opposite sex – but not counselling other children to not tease them or hurt their feelings.
“On the contrary, don’t interfere, and let the other children ridicule the child who has lost that clear boundary between play-acting at home and the reality needs of the outside world.
“Maybe, in this way, the child will re-establish that necessary boundary.”
Let’s jump ahead to my favorite part:
Daniel Gonzales of Ex-Gay Watch, a similar campaign group, was shocked at the statement, he told PinkNews.co.uk “Regardless if a child’s gender dysphoria persists into adulthood, allowing any child with a psychological condition to be harassed because of that condition is shameful.”
“I’m most shocked and dismayed this position is being advocated from within a professional mental health association.”
The article also features quotes from friends of XGW Autumn Sandeen, Wayne Besen, and Jack Drescher.
Update: This evening Nicolosi appears to have renounced Berger’s statement in a note sent to fellow therapist Warren Throckmorton viewable at Throckmorton’s blog:
Narth disagrees with Dr. Berger’s advice as we believe shaming, as distinct from correcting can only create greater harm. Too many of our clients experienced the often life long, harmful effects of peer shaming. We cannot encourage this.
Update 9/1/06: NARTH has quietly revised the Berger article on their website.
Most excellent.
I hope your voice, and Autumn’s, are the ones readers heed.
I am a licensed Marriage and Familty Therapist with over 30 years expeience in the mental health feild — working with all kinds of kids and families.
As a “mandated reporter” in the state of California, if Mr. Nicolosi was my client and he told me he did this to his own son, I would be very close to having to file a report against him with Child Protective Services. I am appalled.
As time goes by, more and more we learn how NARTH and Focus on the Family hope to push their agenda…they want to use fear, hatred, and all those other negative forces a society can bear to force us to fit their view of society.
What’s next, little pink triangles on our clothing and restrictions on what we can do in society?
Sorry, I hate pulling that card out, but sometimes it really does fit. Advocating child abuse at any level should be illegal, and if these folks believe child abuse should be an effective part of ‘treating’ children, we should make sure every parent in the world knows that this is their agenda.
Funny, how it is their agenda which advocates using force and violence to obtain their goals…
Here’s a happy quote from the good doctor in his article:
https://www.narth.com/docs/oakland.html
“Here in cold Canada, I often talk with mothers of small children who routinely complain about how difficult it is to get their children dressed in the winter in the multiple layers of clothing they need to go off to school. I suggest to them that they make it clear to their children that they will leave home — or that the school bus will come — at such-and-such time, and they will go whether they are ready or not. I suggest that going just one day in their pajamas or underwear will be enough to “cure” them of their procrastination.”
Great idea, Dr. Berger. If they die of pneumonia then they’ll never be late to school again.
This man should have his credentials remove immediately. He is a danger to the people fooled into believing that he has any constructive advice to give them.
This is the same Dr. Berger who completely missed the boat on the Bogaert study and when we pointed out that he was illogical attacked us instead.
https://exgaywatch.com/blog/archives/2006/07/narth_responds.html
This man is a complete embarrasment and NARTH would be wise to take away his word processor. Fortunately, NARTH is blinded to science and logic and will continue to let this loon represent them in public, God love ’em.
I have called EXODUS and NARTH to express my deep concern about Dr. Berger’s advocating the teasing and ridicule of “gender variant” kids. I have asked for calls back from EXODUS and Dr. Nicolosi.
I have also contacted Warren Throckmorton who says he has registered his concern — and intends to post a comment on his website once (or even IF) they respond.
Truth Wins Out now has their own media release out on this story entitled Truth Wins Out Rebukes ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapist for Promoting Bullying in Schools.
My comment is that folk here really need to read the whole statement by Dr. Berger to get the full effect of it. Beyond the teasing and ridicule comments, there are many “gems”in his comments. These include:
And…
And…
Just to provide the link through (following from Michael B) — Throckmorton has already stated his negative views about Berger’s child development environment.
But it’s given me an idea. Perhaps the APA should adapt Berger’s techniques and apply them to NARTH therapists. Starting with Berger.
“I have also contacted Warren Throckmorton who says he has registered his concern…”
Obviously Doc Throc and I have vastly different views on orientation and its etiology, mutability, and the appropriate moral and legal responses.
But the man does have the ability to recognize an outright loon when he sees him (eventually). Though he was a little late to criticize Richard Cohen, he was the first of the ex-gay crowd to publically do so and he dropped PFOX when Cohen went on the freak-show circuit.
And Warren was also critical of Berger before either us or Wayne:
Throckmorton: Check out this link [linked to Berger’s article] for what I think is the wrong approach to this matter.
grantdale: by “what I think is the wrong approach to this matter” are you refering to the views of NARTH’s Joseph Berger?
Throckmorton: Yes, I am referring to Dr. Berger’s comments near the end of the NARTH article.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=14077985&postID=115670612802157527
By the way, this is how Berger describes himself:
https://www.notes.co.il/vishne/14190.asp
“To give an idea of who I am: I am a Consulting Psychiatrist, board certified by examination as a Specialist by both the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada. For twenty seven years I have been privileged to be invited as an Examiner for the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology in the Oral portion of the Board Certification examination. I am Immediate Past President of the Ontario District Branch of the American Psychiatry Association and currently Ontario Representative to the Assembly (parliament) of the American Psychiatric Association. I have taught at the University of Toronto as Assistant Professor in Psychiatry. I am the author of the book The Independent Medical Examination in Psychiatry published by Butterworth/LexisNexis in 2002 that is considered the standard text in psychiatric disability evaluation.”
In other words, he taught as an assistant professor once and he is very political. He wrote a book he considers standard text. I did a quick google search but although it looks like half a dozen laws schools put it on their shelves, I didn’t see anyone quoting from it nor does it appear (to me) t be a standard text. Maybe that’s just Berger demonstrating his usual brand of “truth”.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22The+Independent+Medical+Examination+in+Psychiatry%22
Oakland’s Gender-Bending Private School (6:08)Concerned Women for America8/28/2006A private school in Oakland, California is encouraging students to role play the opposite gender and even offers a unisex bathroom for such students. Bob Knight, Director of CWA’s Culture & Family Institute, has more on this new fad in education and the danger that it could soon spread to public schools. Click here to listen.
“Doc Throc” wrote me that he HAD already posted his strong rebuke of Dr. Berger’s “ridicule and tease” suggestion, but then (just three minutes later) wrote to me that we was going “wait and see” to post anything more on his website.
I am very confused. These guys must be scrambling right now to do some major damage control. I would love to hear their conversations about the matter. What an embarrassment for EXODUS and NARTH so close to their joint conference in gay-friendly Palm Springs! I will try to post while at the LWO confernce. Alan has assured me that I may attend. He has even suggested that the two of us pose for a photo op of the former founder and current president. My head is spinning.
*** Archiving note ***
Perhaps the most annoying part of revealing these “interesting” opinion pages on exgay or anti-gay sites is that they have a habit of vanishing if the publicity becomes too hot. Easy come, but also easy go.
If you find a good link — please do take the time to jump through to a web cache and save the page for prosterity. While it’s possible to save the page to hard drive etc, nothing beats an independent link.
Without dear old web cache we’d be unable to independently show that once, long ago, in a land far far away, even Randy Thomas was prepared to be public about concerns he once held. Of course, the original has long since been deleted. As has, apparently, the former Randy Thomas 🙂
Its been a while since I read Randy’s opinion piece.
I wonder what happened to that Randy Thomas.
Here’s the latest from Doc Throc about Doc Berger’s advice to encourage the ridicule and teasing of “gender variant” kids:
“I am getting some email chatter this evening that I am trying to confirm but it looks like NARTH is backing away from the statements by Berger. Others within the NARTH Scientific Advisory Council as well as me were banging on this as soon as we saw it.
Here is a copy of the posting I sent to the NARTH blog (it has not been posted yet):
I find Berger’s suggestion that children be harrassed at school as a
> helpful response to GID abhorrent.
>
> As a NARTH member I apologize for such a comment. There is no possible
> helpful outcome to a child with GID being ridiculed at school.
> Bullying at school takes many forms and children’s capacity to exploit
> other’s weaknesses or difficulties is well documented. Children who
> use peer ridicule are rarely, if ever, doing it for the good of the
> recipient. It is often merely narcissism.
>
> NARTH should remove Berger’s posting immediately and apologize.
>
> David Blakeslee
Thanks, Mr. Blakeslee. That’s a first. Now how about a very PUBLIC apology from Dr. Nicolosi? We should look for signs at the conference (and comments from the microphone) that express:
“We’re really sorry that one of our own said that kids should be teased and ridiculed at school. We regret that we have little control over our own members’ stupid and hurtful public comments.”
A public apology from EXODUS (who will standing alongside NARTH in Palm Springs) would also be a decent thing to do. Along with a long over-due apology for “not knowing the truth” about their own history and wrongly asserting that Frank Worthen started EXODUS.
It won’t happen.
Doesn’t NARTH share its exgay political allies’ opposition to anti-bullying programs in schools?
If so, I see no need for NARTH to seek a retraction. Berger’s comment is consistent with established public policy of ignoring and trivializing harassment. Berger should stand proud behind his remark.
about the comment from grantdale regarding pages disappearing from anti-gay sites.
do what I do and print out a copy. I have many copies of lies
XGW Tip:
For those cool people out there using Firefox, check out this extension for saving pages that might go away in the future 😉 It also has tools for highlighting, adding notes, etc.
Scrapbook
Mike, I don’t think NARTH (or allies) are opposed to anti-bullying programs per se. They are opposed to one’s that include gay. Especially if the word is actually used. Because that would restrict religious freedom, right? Right??? (Don’t ask HOW, they just do OK)
But agree that there’s no way they will publically retract the statement. The link will simply vanish. There be nothing in their media release section after it does.
The most we can expect is that individual NARTH members — and probably for their own individual reasons — will distance themself from Berger. ie as David Blakesee has here.
(And we are pleased to see that David. Now all we need to talk about is the social and legal bullying of gay adults, and how that feeds the exgay groups…)
The “must not forget that” thing is that someone at NARTH other than Berger has created the page, and sought the comment, and posted it on the NARTH site. Who?
–
And A.M. — no way! 🙂 If we did that we’d have to move into a warehouse. And cut down half the remaining Amazon forest. We have 62 GB of stored and compressed data… thank heavens for all-you-can-eat broadband subscriptions.
(One day we’ll even get the archiving database working and then we’ll really be able to pull old quotes etc out of apparently thin air!)
Update: yep, offending statement vanishes. All else stays same. Private retraction by Nicolosi.
Clarification still needed on when “correction” doesn’t mean “shaming”. Eye of the beholder.
I left a post for the NARTH Blog, but I doubt they’ll post it — they moderate their blog. Here’s what I wrote:So much for honesty — so much for the ethical behavior of owning up to one’s own public statements. Here, at 11:16 PM PST, I see that the NARTH article has had the incredibly offensive…
…removed from the article, but haven’t yet removed it here on this blog.Why not make a public comment that NARTH disavows shaming, teasing, and ridiculing gender variant children by the article where the offensive statement was made?From the outside looking in, it appears the reason NARTH won’t say that is because NARTH isn’t ethical enough, or humane enough, to publicly admit Dr. Berger’s statements were wrong, and say that in plain view of NARTH’s proponents and detractors.Instead, all we can do is read Dr. Nicolosi’s comments about this via Dr. Warren Throckmortons’s blog, and read Dr. Berger’s original statements here in this blog — until the folks here running the NARTH Blog get around to changing the statements here too.
So a process of some sort is moving forward. I again want to express my thanks to Dan for drawing this to my attention. Light is a good disinfectant. Humility, a precurser to change.
GID children deserve our thoughtful and compassionate support as do their parents.
If I hear anything more I will let you know.
David Blakeslee
In the call he made to me just now, Dr. Nicolosi had real trouble understanding why I was so upset and what I was asking him to do. He also felt, as first, that he had “no need to apologise for statements HE didn’t make”.
He later said he could understand my anger and that he, personally, was strongly opposed to hurting kids in any way.
Here is what I asked him to do:
(1) Apologize. He didn’t think he needed to at first since it wasn’t HIS opinion — even though it was on HIS webpage.
(2) Publically censure Dr. Berger. He rejected this idea, saying he saw no reason to “beat the s*** out of him”.
(3) Remove the article entirely from the NARTH blog and website. He did so just now.
(4) State WHY he was doing so — not just “make it disappear — as so often happens when “our” side holds “their” side accountable for their stupid, hurtful on untruthful comments. I asked him to make a public comment as to why he was doing so. And he did.
He agreed that just making it disappear would appear cowardly and would not be a responsible or honest thing to do. Thanks, Dr. Nicolosi. I look forward to meeting you in Palm Springs.
In the call he made to me just now, Dr. Nicolosi had real trouble understanding why I was so upset and what I was asking him to do. He also felt, as first, that he had “no need to apologise for statements HE didn’t make”.
He later said he could understand my anger and that he, personally, was strongly opposed to hurting kids in any way.
Here is what I asked him to do:
(1) Apologize. He didn’t think he needed to at first since it wasn’t HIS opinion — even though it was on HIS webpage.
(2) Publically censure Dr. Berger. He rejected this idea, saying he saw no reason to “beat the s*** out of him”.
(3) Remove the article entirely from the NARTH blog and website. He did so just now.
(4) State WHY he was doing so — not just “make it disappear — as so often happens when “our” side holds “their” side accountable for their stupid, hurtful on untruthful comments. I asked him to make a public comment as to why he was doing so. And he did.
He agreed that just making it disappear would appear cowardly and would not be a responsible or honest thing to do. Thanks, Dr. Nicolosi. I look forward to meeting you in Palm Springs.
Michael, those were Nicolosi’s exact words? “Beat the…” etc.
And Nicolosi says he’s not prepared to do that to a grown man who just advocated that sort of treatment against a child??? Nice to know where Nicolosi draws the line, I guess. We must not have his generosity of spirit.
Ethical or Abuse…. now, where is my dictionary… nope, it’s missing in my NARTH dictionary. Oh, but, hello here’s some words to haunt Berger…
Pot, meet kettle.
Yup. Nicolosi’s exact words — “What do you want me to do, Mike? Beat the S*** out of him?” I assume he meant VERBALLY — maybe some “helpful” teasing or ridiculing to “set the boundary”? (grin)
This is ridiculous. NARTH creates a monster, then has to scramble the ranks to either cover or apologize.
They all should just shut the hell up. They create more confusion than education and I’m sick of the lot of them.
Throckmorton included. Too late is too late, Dr. Throckmorton, you can’t unring the same bell you ring too.
I can’t help but remember the nine year old twins in that gay twin article on tv.
The little guy with the pink painted fingernails was charming.
My God, why do NARTH want to teach that a child like this is a threat?
Deserving of being treated badly? They are different, even as twins, not all twins will be exactly the same.
I have more misgivings about a child who likes guns, than one who likes stuffed animals.
NARTH acts like kids this divergent in personality not only can’t play nice, but can’t be encouraged to.
Why can’t we just enjoy kids as they are with their wonderful, diverse, imaginative selves?
And let them enjoy EACH OTHER as such.
Isn’t THIS the lesson we can and should teach little ones?
Is a little boy in pink fingernails, or a little girl who prefers playing soldier such a big PROBLEM?!
I am reminded of Jesus’s very strong words (in Matthew) about “millstones” and being “cast into the sea” — to illustrate how deeply Jesus felt about those would would harm little ones.
It has to be the strongest condemnation I know about mistreating children for ANY reason — even if you think you are trying to “help” them.