Peterson Toscano and Jack Drescher will be guests on Thursday’s broadcast of “To The Point” which comes from my local NPR station KCRW. Catch it streaming live on KCRW’s website from noon to 1 PM pacific time. If you miss the live broadcast you can click here to podcast it and full archived episodes can be found here for free. This is why I love public radio, and especially our local station here in LA.
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Like Alan Chambers on NPR back in October (See: .
Last night NPR’s All Things Considered aired a report from KJZZ’s Rene Gutel about the Love Won Out conference in Phoenix. Nothing really new in the report, although Alan Chambers clarified(?) what “change” is:
“Cure is not a word that I would ever use,” Chambers said. “Certainly that’s not what we’re advocating with regards to homosexuality. But we are saying is that it is a condition that people have found freedom from, they have changed.”
What was really sad (but a little hilarious) was that a family from San Diego dragged their gay 16-year-old son 350 miles to the conference. Their son, Brett, wasn’t buying the ex-gay message:
“‘Don’t tell my parents but no; I know I’m gay, and like, their stories are really inspiring but I know this is me and I don’t really want to change.’
Brett’s dad, Mark, said the conference taught him he needs to learn he needs to love his son? unconditionally.
‘Absolutely,’ he says, ‘love him forever.’
But he also says the weekend renewed his hopes that one day his son will become straight.”
Poor Brett. He sounds really confident in the interview though. I don’t think I would handled the parental pressure as well as he has.
“OK, Brett, I won’t tell your parents” (I’ll just repeat your words on the radio and post them on the internet)
I just finished listening to the live broadcast, and I have to congratulate Peterson Toscano for his honest, well-reasoned answers. His questions of the other guests were also really good, and revealed a lot of the internal inconsistencies that the other two guests put forward. Credit should also be given to Warren Olney. Most hosts are very ignorant of this subject, but his questions betrayed a familiarity with the issues… or simply a keen intellect that grasped the underlying motivations for some of the claims that the ex-gay representative made.
I also appreciated Dr. Drescher’s deconstruction of the flaws in the Spitzer study, which destroyed any credibility that the ex-gay representative tried to give to it in support of his position.
Finally, the guy from the National Association of Evangelicals should be embarrassed. In trying to put a smiley face on the anti-gay positions his organization has taken, he came off as the perfect illustration of what those of us here criticize about evangelical political positions regarding gay issues. He was logically inconsistent, making statements that didn’t agree with each other. For example, he claimed that just because he was religious, that doesn’t mean he dismisses science out of hand… and then he proceeded to dismiss science out of hand in regards to the genetic component of homosexuality. He eventually admitted–probably inadvertently, knowing the audience he was speaking to–that even if science unequivocally *proved* homosexuality was genetically driven, he wouldn’t accept it, anyway! So much for not dismissing science!
However, his most egregious statement was that religious organizations who demonized the GLBT community as a way to succeed on a politically partisan level “probably” weren’t following the example of Jesus Christ. “Probably”?!?! Even if I were an evangelical that was not sympathetic to gay issues, I would call the man on the carpet for making such an obviously stupid and harmful statement. Of *course* demonizing people is wrong and scoring partisan political victories has nothing to do with the message of Christ. What a tool.
Given the limited amount of time given to the subject and the guests, it was one of the more illuminating discussions of this topic. Thanks, Dan, for highlighting this for us.
I was almost dizzy after hearing Richard Cizik speak at the end. He made no sense at all, and I can only agree that he must have been dancing around his true feelings in order to sound reasonable. It was a really bad performance on his part.
Peterson and Jack Drescher did a great job. Richard Wyler, from People Can Change sounded terrified. I thought it almost humorous that he claimed they were not affiliated with any religious viewpoints. Most of his recommendations and resources point to faith based programs, including Exodus. He also lists Richard Cohen which, if the rest had not not done so already, certainly destroys any credibility he might have had.
Agree with David — Cizik left me dizzy. Must have been all that spinning.
Apart from a fuzzy blur of “love and harmony” while leaving unmentioned how their actual attitudes and behaviour displays those qualities, Cizik pointedly avoided a direct question by Peterson (about the fact that the Bible/et al has and is used to support racism, sexism and homophobia). Cizik did the all-to-expected sidestep of “but that wouldn’t Christian to use it like that” — as if that would be a point of view that cut any ice with those Christian-identified bigots who did previously use the Bible to support slavery etc.
I thought Jack Drescher did a great job: mentioning the harm (or at best uselessness) of conversion attempts on the majority with a good analogy to prescription drugs that are not sold even though they may be benefitial to some people. I think if Jack had mentioned the utter contempt most conversion therapists display toward any proper initial assessment of their clients prior to recommending, selling and starting “treatment” we’d have had it all wrapped up.
Richard Wyler — even after Jack Drescher discussed the fact he treats people who have been harmed by such attempts, and the basic dynamics of that harm — was in complete denial that even a single person has ever been harmed.
Amazingly (not) he then goes on to mention a study where “only 7% said they were were doing worse on 3 or measures of psychological wellbeing.”
Hmm. A confident “Nobody getes harmed”, and then mentioning that some actually are. Make up your mind Mr Wyler: None, or Some???
(And 7% for 3 or more measures is actually fairly damning, especially if one was to ask further about those who are additionally doing worse on just 1 or 2 measures.)
Wyler’s representation of himself and his organisation as “secular” was utterly laughable. Jeez, anyone can check for themself and see that to be a contemptble lie. Or does he think “secular” means “inclusive of every extremely conservative viewpoint from every religion”??? Peterson was too nice by far when given his opportunity to challange Wyler’s misrepresentation of himself and his organisation.
Why were there just about 75 men and women in the audience of Love Won Out in Phoenix?
Yuri:
It was a breakout session. There were three sets of breakout sessions, with 4-5 sessions running concurrently. Altogether, there were 700 attendants.
I’m not sure which session was in the audio report since the snippet was so short, but I suspect it was Alan Chambers’ “Hope for those who struggle”, on of the very, very few talks that were actually directed to gays who want to change. That probably explains the low number.
ummm…. attendants = attendees
Thanks Jim. I’ve also found a great report on the conference at http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com
Yuri — you’re about to have one of those “doh!” moments…
boxturtlebulletin is actually… Jim himself!
(and a fine writer he is too)
Why thank you!
And yes, I can confirm that it was a breakout session. According to my conference material, it was a breakout session held in a smaller room. And let me tell you, what an interesting session that was! Oy!
I’m a little late in replying but I want to clarify a few points. First of all, as I said in the report (although obviously not clearly enough) I interviewed Brett in front of his parents. When he said, “Don’t tell my parents but no,” his parents were standing right in front of him and heard every word. I did not interview him in private telling him I wouldn’t tell his parents and then turn around and broadcast his words.
The other thing is that there was an inadvertant error in the final version of the story. It should have been clear in the host’s introduction that there were more than 700 people who attended the Phoenix Love Won Out conference. That was accidentally omitted from the story which aired (though it’s since been fixed at npr.org) and the mix-up left the impression that there were only 70 people at the conference. Again, there were about 700. And I did indeed record the tape from Alan Chambers at a break-out session called “Help for Those Who Struggle.”
I apologize for the confusion. If you have any further comments or questions, feel free to e-mail me directly at rgutel – at – kjzz.org
Best,
Rene Gutel
KJZZ Radio