Maria at Daily Dose of Queer has been reading some exgay blogs, and now she, too, is getting the impression that some exgays turn not to heterosexuality, but to asexuality.
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Maria at Daily Dose of Queer has been reading some exgay blogs, and now she, too, is getting the impression that some exgays turn not to heterosexuality, but to asexuality.
Funny,
Same with heterosexuals.
Interesting Blog, Just sufing through.
Mike,
I do not think it is accurate to describe most ex-gays as asexual. There’s a major difference between asexuality and sexual repression. An individual engaging in the latter would still have subconscious sexual desires and worse, by counsciously repressing them, it could probably affect an individual with psychosexual immaturity.
If ‘ex-gays’ wish to be trully asexual and have nothing to sexually repress, they would have to get chemically castrated and… lobotomized.
I agree, Xeno — most exgays are not asexual.
The ones who aspire to that orientation or identity constitute (I hope) a small minority.
In my humble opinion,
To say that all ex-gays are really sexually repressed and confused individuals is to rely on a derogatory stereotype, one that can only be backed up in the same way an anti-gay activist would back up his arguments: by relying on anecdotal evidence. Also, this stereotype does nothing to better the situation between ex-gays and gays, and only serves to piss of organizations like PFOX, who’ve recently shown that they have more muscle to flex than we’ve previously thought.
The first step to reconciliation is acknowledging that real change is possible for some, that change in fantasy and attraction is possible, in addition to behavioral changes. Trying to deny this fact is to deny empirical reality, because in order to prove this theses, one only needs to find one person who has changed to prove the assertion that “some can change.”
By the same token, it is also empirical reality that “some don’t change, and repress their behavior,” and that “some are harmed.”
Who is saying that “all ex-gays are really sexually repressed and confused”? That’s the opposite of what I said.
Are you saying that Maria is overgeneralizing?
Please offer direct quotes of whatever overgeneralization you’re finding — and indicate where, exactly, you’re finding it.
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the link over. I do believe that there are those that leave homosexuality for a non-sexual life. Of course, not all do. I’m just now looking at a comment on my post from someone who would say they were, indeed, more asexual than straight while they were trying to become a successful ex-gay. I’m thinking they are an ex-ex-gay now.
Maybe people feeling asexual during this transition in identity they seek is a sign that they will not be successful in becoming an ex-gay. I’d be interested in looking at stories of ex-gays who had different experiences and feelings during their process and how these experiences and feelings affected where they are now.
Yep, they are an ex-ex-gay. I should really stop speed-reading things!
Well Mike,
Maria says:
“Since I believe homosexuality is genetic and is within us whether we choose to act on our feelings or not.”
From this premise, she believes that inner change is impossible, since if homosexuality was indeed genetic, like eye color, than it would be truly unchangeable. Therefore, any change would then be interpreted as behavioral change and repression, under this framework. It seems so obvious to me, yet I’m surprised that you have trouble comprehending this.
As of now Maria’s premise is scientifically unsubstantiated, as many of you know. No scientist would ever make the assertion that homosexuality is genetic. Even Dean Hamar, would assert that homosexuality may be influenced by genetics, but he would never say that it is genetic, end of story.
Also, some people on this blog would want to say “well, even though science hasn’t found anything yet, it is OBVIOUSLY genetic!”
Such a statement doesn’t do much to help the situation, and only shows bias and wishful thinking.
I’m not debating that homosexuality isn’t biological rooted. It is, like all other human behaviors and mental processes.
The issue isn’t about whether people truly change or don’t. I believe Mr. Riddle has made it clear on this blog.
The real issue is about respecting people as they are, and respecting their lifestyle choices
And I might mention, if one’s religion is protected under hate crime laws (and religion is a choice), why can’t sexual orientation be protected as well, as one has much, much less choice with his/her orientation.
Yu,
1. You were making a huge jump from a discussion of *some* exgays seeking asexuality, to “all” ex-gays allegedly being repressed and confused. Thank you for the additional explanation.
2. I do not assume that sexual orientation is solely (or simply) rooted in biology. It seems obvious to me that it is experienced differently by different people, and that suggests to me that orientation has different mixes of origins for different people.
“I do not assume that sexual orientation is solely (or simply) rooted in biology. It seems obvious to me that it is experienced differently by different people, and that suggests to me that orientation has different mixes of origins for different people.”
I agree with your assertion on sexual orientation. Now, if sexual orientation has different origins and is experienced differently for everyone, that would mean that sexual orientation is not really a singular entity, as laymen like to think. And because it most likely has different origins, it would not be a stretch to assume that some people can change, while others cannot.
But by the same token, it is obviously not chosen. Like a person’s personality, Sexual orientation seems to just come into being without us ever making any conscious choice. It creeps up on us, kind of like how I’ve just recently realized how similar my brother’s personality is to my father (no conscious decision was made to be like him).
But, like personality, I believe that sexual orientation can change over time for some people, hence the stories of some gay men falling madly in love with certain women and vice versa (also Anne Heche comes to mind).
Interestingly enough, most change appears to be in a bisexual direction. Complete change appears to be rare, although it has happened.
Speaking of biological components to orientation, apparantly there was a study today indicating that male and female brains react to pheromones differently. The study further showed that gay men respond in the same way straight women do.
Which makes me wonder… do ex-gays respond to male or female pheromones?
I wonder if it could be a cheap and easy way to validate the ex-gay ministries’ claims? Hmmmm, you say you’ve changed, well let’s just ask your brain.
he he
Rather than relying on sound bites, wouldn’t it be nice to give a link to the actual study?
Perhaps I’m asking for too much…