Sometimes we gay Jews describe ourselves as being “twice blessed,” but in the Phelps’s case, we’re twice targeted. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups, Westboro Baptist Church is declaring that “God Hates Jews” for being idolators, Christ-killers, and homosexual-enablers. Jews are, according to them, the group of people most supportive of gay rights and abortion. WBC issued a press release in April that stated:
“Yes, the Jews killed the Lord Jesus…Now they’re carrying water for the fags; that’s what they do best: sin in God’s face every day, with unprecedented and disproportionate amounts of sodomy, fornication, adultery, abortion and idolatry!”
Right on the heels of the shooting and murder of a guard on duty at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, WBC plans to protest Jewish centers in Chicago and New York:
According to the group’s picket schedule, the WBC plans to protest Chicago and New York Jewish institutions this weekend. To one synagogue in Chicago’s Hyde Park neighborhood WBC warns, “Men, take the covering off your heads. While you are doing that, you need to repent of the FACT that you Killed Christ!” This coming Sunday, in New York City’s Central Park, the Phelps clan plans to visit an Israeli tourism event, with a calendar entry that reads, “All the remainder can sit and stew in your own filth, remain filthy until the day God spews you out of the land and punishes you for never repenting from having killed Jesus. You will be destroyed at the hand of Antichrist Obama, and you will eat your little cute, chubby, Kosher babies.”
There isn’t much surprise at this anti-Jewish stance. According to the Anti-Defamation League, WBC took a similar stance in 1996.
Shalom!
As a Jew, I’m proud to say that outside of Orthodox denominations, Jews are indeed homosexual enablers. Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist Jews have always been supportive of gay rights AND civil rights!
(-:
The State of Israel, in fact, has a better record on gay rights than the USA!
Which doesn’t make Phelps or the museum shooting any easier to take~~I’d like to know who’s funding Phelps’ endless globetrotting!
Jews as idolators??? Now, granted, expecting anything logical from the Phelps Clan is probably wishing for the impossible. But for the life of me, I cannot imagine what Jewish religious practice the nuts at Westboro could possibly be thinking of that would qualify as idolatry. And that question comes to you from a Catholic!
On another note, the patriarch of the Phelps clan who has terrorized his family and the nation for so many years is getting on in years. I really do wonder how long the craziness will last once he dies.
These people are SO insular and can’t function within diversity of any kind.
I am truly surprised they haven’t bored each other to death.
They entertain themselves by tormenting the public, but that the don’t get bored with it, shows just how mentally ill that whole family is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone shot them all up. I doubt if someone committed suicide we’d hear about it.
A while ago a British documentarian was allowed to follow and film this clan over a two year period.
He didn’t commit one way or the other while WITH them, but the public got an earful later on.
He let the Phelps do their thing and anyone with a brain can see they are nuts. ALL of them.
If there are any other people out there that don’t think the less obvious ones like Peter LaBarbera or James Dobson aren’t ALSO around the bend, they don’t WANT a clue.
These are some ANGRY people. Angry and paranoid and unable to keep a lid on it.
The love to blame others for their marginalized lives, but they DO bring it on themselves.
The Phelps, to some…are a kind of sick entertainment and don’t really think they are dangerous.
But I can think of at least two of the young adults sons who are.
And certainly, if anyone likes to follow them, they could be that lone wolf that explodes every now and then…
like Benjamin Smith, who blew up following Matt Hale and Christian identity for all of a year.
Sad to say, but I am sure there are many “Christians” out there who agree with Phelps message but not necessarily their tactics. There are many in the Christian community who preach the very same message yet maybe in a more moderate dosage.
The RCC for the longest time included a prayer in the Latin Mass for the conversion of Jews. Persecusions were the norm in Europe for Jews on a grand scale up until the end of WWII (and on a small scale afterwards). And they were and are done in the name of Christianity. Until we as Christians as a whole stop playing “find the enemy and destroy them” and start following Christ’s mandate of “love your neighbor” and “do unto others as you would want them to do unto you,” Christianity will continue to perpetuate the likes of Phelp’s church. Until Christians of all diverse traditions stand up and denounce Phelps and the like, Christianity will take the blame for their existence.
It’s a harder road to reach out to others of diverse faiths. Many people fear they will have to “water-down” their own beliefs in order to accept people of a different faith tradition. It also is a control issue. When one holds sacred and unchanging their doctrines and beliefs, they have a sense of control. Reaching out to others of diverse faiths contains an element of loss of control for some. It is certainly the case for Phelps and the like.
WBC lives and breaths on fear, and tries to instill that same fear on others. From my perspective on the WBC, they perceive God as something to fear because Phelps represents God and Phelps instills fear on his followers (who are mostly related to him). The all-knowing, all-seeing, one to be feared father figure of God is generated by him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Phelps believes he is God.
I hope, as a Christian, that other Christians will see what the WBC really is and examine their own lives and beliefs to see how close or far they are from what the WBC is and represents. If there is any good from the WBC it would be that it is a call for Christians to reexamine their own lives and beliefs and actions and ommisions perhaps allowing them to return to the core of the Christian message which is to love unconditionally as God does.
Believe me Alan, I’m painfully painfully aware. In fact, for all their hateful venom, I prefer WBC to those other Christians. At least WBC is open and honest about it. I’d rather Fred Phelps spew vitriol about me being a Christ-Killer directly in my face than Kirk Cameron politely inform me that my relatives who died in the gas chambers are now being tortured in Hell; while belittling the suffering they endured on this earth.
Emily:
I understand where you are coming from, but I’m sure you’ll agree that any form of this bigotry is not becoming of a religion that is suppose to follow the example and teachings of Christ.
Emily:
Just read this from: https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1094771.html
When a predominantly gay synagogue in Manahattan learned that a group of ultra-Evangelical Christians were planning a protest outside their building, the congregation decided to turn the hate rally into a fundraising event.
Parishoners from the Westboro Baptist Church, a Kansas-based institution, gathered on Sunday outside Congregation Beth Simchat Torah with signs reading “God hates fags” and “Jews stole the land.”
The synagogue heard several days in advance of the church’s planned demonstration and decided to counter the protesters’ publicity drive with one of their own, rather than pursuing legal action.
The congregation encouraged its supporters to donate at least $1 for every six minutes that the demonstration lasted.
Following the 51-minute protest, the synagogue was able to raise more than $10,000 in donations.
To me this is how twisted religion has become when it has no reality check built into it.
As a former almost-a-Christian, i learned that Jesus was SUPPOSED to die as the ransom/gift for the sins of mankind so that we could all be forgiven. Or, putting it another way, G committed suicide in tpyical Jewish guilt for saddling us with a world where sin exists when he should have been paying more attention.
Moreover, if nothing else is clear, it was the Romans who ordred Jesus’s death by vcrucifixion, which was a roman punishment for political misbehavior.
So where does Freddie Phelps-Krueger get this stuff?
“The RCC for the longest time included a prayer in the Latin Mass for the conversion of Jews.”
Yes, and you would find that the Holy See still hopes for the Jewish acceptance of the Messiah, not because they hate them but because they believe that he is the way of eternal life. As Christians we are trying to express love to all of our fellow humans though we are very bad at it.
Christ volunteered to die so that many could live, thus, all of us who have put our trust in Jesus and been covered in His blood do, in fact, cause His death. To single out either Jews or Romans is to accept a very flawed theology.
“As a former almost-a-Christian, i learned that Jesus was SUPPOSED to die as the ransom/gift for the sins of mankind so that we could all be forgiven. Or, putting it another way, G committed suicide in tpyical Jewish guilt for saddling us with a world where sin exists when he should have been paying more attention.”
The first part is correct, the second part, I think, is a bit unfair. God wished to create a world in which true relationship between Himself and creation would exist, because of this it became necessary to allow his children the ability to sever the relationship if they so willed it. When they did God made the decision to give himself as a sacrifice to restore the relationship that He had originally intended. There are various reasons why this was necessary, they involve his holiness and His desire to express to His children the extent to which He loves them.
I apologize to the forum for being off-subject but I do represent that part of the gay community that is very serious about it’s faith and I do not wish for needless (or worse, incorrect) bashing of religion to take place. Let us reprove the Church for failing for 2000 years to address an entire people group in the love that they were required to give by their Saviour, but I hope that we do not throw the baby out with the bath water and say that the entire religion is evil.
Just a thought.
Ben, your comment was off base because it comes dangerously close to mocking the beliefs of others, something I feel sure you know we try to avoid here. Please try to be more careful in the future. Thanks.
I noticed it but decided to find out if it would be ignored before moderating.
My apologies. I was not intending to offend. But I was trying to point out what Christianity says about itself, especially regarding the intersection of sin, free will, and the Christian message of redemption through Jesus’s sacrifice, which is what aaron was saying when he wrote ” When they did, God made the decision to give himself as a sacrifice to restore the relationship that He had originally intended.”
My observation actually came from concversation with a Christian acquaintance of mine, based upon his (and my) reading and understanding of the gnostic and cathar heresies. It was the only way we could reconcile these very contradictory messages. Yes, sin is bad, though what constitutes it seems very arbitrary. Yes, we have free will, but we’re not supposed to exercise it. Yes, we are redeemed through G’s love, unless we aren’t, which is the message of so many so-called Christians of the Freddi Phelps-Kreuger variety.
Again, i apologize if this was seen as mocking Christianity. what I was trying to point out is that this tension/contradiction between sin, G’s love, redemption, and free will is what allows the phelpses of the world, whether Chrsitian, Jew, or Muslim, to operate.
The absurdity of calling Jews “Christ killers” brought out a similar response in me– more absurdity.
“Again, i apologize if this was seen as mocking Christianity. what I was trying to point out is that this tension/contradiction between sin, G’s love, redemption, and free will is what allows the phelpses of the world, whether Chrsitian, Jew, or Muslim, to operate.”
It’s okay if we disagree, personally I think people use religion as an excuse to hate rather than religion making them hate. But you are correct that there are many great mysteries and paradox’s, especially when it comes to freewill and the origin of sin and stuff like that.
“The absurdity of calling Jews “Christ killers” brought out a similar response in me– more absurdity.”
I agree, it is absurd, anti-biblical and wicked to accuse the people of the Jewish faith of being “Christ killers.”
Since I’m sure this website wouldn’t want to grant special elevated status to pro-religious viewpoints while censoring others, I’ll express just a few of mine.
I don’t believe any gods exist, and I don’t need a savior. The notion that the crucifixion of a man (or son of a god) somehow washes away sin strikes me as absolutely preposterous. And the notion that I will suffer for eternity in an afterlife for not believing any of it is equally preposterous – to the chagrin of those who seek to control my thoughts, beliefs, and actions.
I can understand how ancient people would be desperate to make some sense of their existence, and would develop the concept of gods as the most plausible explanation. But I can also understand how some clever people would soon realize they could amass power and influence by claiming special insights and receiving revelations from the gods. The seizing of power became complete once these clever people convinced the masses that the god(s) knew their every thought and action, and that he would punish them in an afterlife if they didn’t think and behave in prescribed ways. And thus, organized religion was born.
It is worth thinking about how the vast majority of people not only come to accept their own religious beliefs, but are able to quickly and easily reject the beliefs of others. In overwhelming numbers people take on the religion of their parents and/or their social environment. It happens through indoctrination, not education. Yes, throughout history there have been waves of change, but after each wave the new/revised beliefs are passed along to many subsequent generations. And many people make an unremarkable change in religious flavors, such as from Presbyterian to Lutheran. But how many people do you know who, without bias, have researched the world’s religions in order to select the correct one? It is fascinating to see how Christians (for example) quickly and easily reject other religions as being so obviously preposterous.
After those statements, it may seem surprising for me to say that I am enthralled by much of the magnificent architecture and music that religion inspired or produced (although I think it all served mostly as marketing tools over the centuries). I remember one experience about thirty years ago while walking alone in New York City. I wandered into St. Thomas Church, which was virtually empty except for the organist practicing. The experience was overwhelming with the combination of magnificent architecture, soaring thundering organ, and all of it illuminated by the sunlight streaming through the stained glass windows. Some might have called it a religious experience, but I saw it as the power of architecture, art, and music (although I was merely somewhat agnostic at the time).
No, but we do ask that you remain somewhat on topic.
Richard R said:
It has taken Christianity a long time to reconcile its differences within itself (and it is still in progress). There are some Christians who are going beyond the bounds of Christianity and begining to enact dialogue with others of other faiths in a spirit of equality rather superiority. The acceptance and practice of diversity is by no means an easy one to grasp, and it will take a long time for more people to begin to understand, let alone embrace diversity.
But taking the religion out of the equation, we as humans still have a long way to go before we begin to appreciate one another even in a secular manner. There are white Americans feels superior to non-white Americans and vice versa, English speaking Americans feel superior to non-English or multi-lingual Americans and vice versa, some people in the North feel superior to those in the South and vice versa.
It is true, it is something we are raised with. I remember attending a football game during my high school years, and everyone was cheering on our team, and I thought to myself, the only reason we think we’re better is because we live near the school so we have to attend it. Had I lived near the school of the opposite team, I would think they were superior.
Until we as human beings realize we are equal from birth, and that the inequalities in the world are human-made, not Divinely inspired, we will have hate groups, religious or not, that despise Jews, gays, and anything that separates the “us” from the “them.”
Okay, attempting to be somewhat on topic now, here is a YouTube video by the lovely Linda Harvey wherein she condemns a number of specific notable people who have now become insufficiently Christian. There are flashing captions that might cause you to think they were put there to mock her, but no, I think she thought they were actually a good idea. Take a look, and feel the love.