A major figure in the Religious Right, Jerry Falwell was found unconscious in his office after breakfast this morning and was pronounced dead a few hours later at Lynchburg General Hospital. He had a recent history of heart problems.
Founder of the now defunct Moral Majority in the 1980s, Falwell was arguably one of the architects of what is now called the Religious Right in this country. He held a consistent and vocal anti-gay stance and XGW has had occasion to report on his views and actions a number of times over the years. Recently, however, he seemed to change direction a bit on equality and basic rights for gays and lesbians.
The Rev. Mel White, founder of Soulforce, was once associated with Falwell as a ghost writer among other things. He has devoted a great deal of time and effort into convincing Falwell to change his anti-gay views, as he remembered Falwell changing his anti-civil rights stance for African Americans decades before. Now we will never know how far this change of heart may have gone.
It is unknown who will replace Falwell in his ministry leadership position.
Considering the damage he’s caused so many innocent gay people, his “change of heart” couldn’t have come soon enough.
Good riddance!
My cat “Icky” died today as well.
I think she had a cancer.
Sad
Despite the fact he was not a friend to the GLBT community, I am saddened, as with anyone that dies, that he had passed away this morning.
I extend my deepest sympathy to his family in their time of grief. My God comfort them.
Praise God. The world became a better place today.
A friend of mine just wrote this and I think it is so appropriate. While I don’t celebrate the death of anyone, today another milestone has taken place and we are one step closer to the day in which there will be no walls of division between gays and lesbians & straights. Today we are one step closer to the day where the wall of separation will be no more. God has been chipping away at this wall for years. We continually see more and more Christians rising up to speak out again hatred from the pulpit. Generationally, we get closer and closer to the day when we can be the Church God intended us to be from the start…a Church that is one!
Todd thanks for your wonderful words of wisdom on this issue
I wonder how we, as a community of people who have suffered the dehumanization of Falwell’s message, should respond to this. Reverend Falwell surely loved God, but what he put forth happily to the media was nothing but hatred and loathing of homosexuals.
As a Christian man, gay or not, I mourn the loss of someone who is my brother in some way or another. He probably would be repulsed by me calling him my brother, but if we are indeed Christians, and we believe that God forgives, then I say here and now that I forgive Rev. Falwell for what he has said and done; beyond that, it is God’s job to judge the righteous and unrighteous, not ours, and I hope people have more tact in the coming days than saying things like “good riddance.” I know. It’s hard. We have to be vigilent, because for every leader like Rev. Jerry Falwell, there are numerous other who will rise to take his place, both in his ministry and in his hatred.
So while i deplore the things that Rev. Falwell has done to us as a community, I pray that his soul be at peace, and that we can respond to this as Christian people, not meeting hate with more hate.
peace
gaytheologian
http://www.virb.com/gaytheologian
The idea of being gleeful over the death of another human being seems, at the very least, less than civilized. We have no control over what Jerry Falwell was, but we certainly do have such control over our own character. He had family and people who loved him, I’m sorry for their pain, as I am sorry for the pain he inevitably caused others.
While I am not a fan of Falwell, he did apologize (a little), but his apology came so late and after so many countless lives of GLBT had suffered at the hands of those he influenced and incited into doing hateful things against GLBT’s in the name of God. Very sad – life and death all around.
The ex-gay umbrella network Exodus responds:
He was a man, he lived, he died. I take no glee from his death, nor do I feel overt sadness. Its always shocking when a public figure with immense influence dies, and like him or hate him he certainly shaped a generation of political thought. In a larger context, it seems that his death comes when the Christian Right is on the wane in this country, perhaps his death is another symbol of that. And yet this isn’t a day for politics. My condolences to the family.
I take no pleasyre in his passing. I will only say this…
if there is a hell, he might be surprised to find himself there
if there is a heaven…he might be surpised at the gay people he finds there
and if there is justice in heaven…he’ll admit he was wrong
and if he might have wings…help us out from there
I feel for his family. But I think the nation is slightly better without him here. Sorry, it’s just how I feel. I can’t feign sympathy for his demise. Perhaps in time..
Falwell’s appearing to change direction is no sign he changed at all. He could not separate homosexual orientation from homosexual “lifestyle.”
From the Soulforce article link in the OP: “I may not agree with the lifestyle,” Falwell said. “But that has nothing to do with the civil rights of that… part of our constituency.”
Was what Falwell said in that sentenced edited or did the “…” indicate that he stumbled when trying to finish the sentence?
The linked article mentioned about if he were a lawyer, he would fight for the civil rights of a gay person. But, Marion G. “Pat” Robertson was educated to be a lawyer and instead of going into law practice, he went to a little Bible school in NYC to study how to be a minister instead.
I don’t hate anyone; but, the only members of his family who would receive sympathy from me would be those who did not agree with his proof-texting the Bible and his meddling involvement in the political affairs of the USA and in every State in the Union.
I do not reserve sypathies for the grieving only to those who agree with me. I wish all of Falwell’s friends and family peace and comfort during this difficult time.
If a person does not have peace with God before he dies, it is a waste of time to pray for his soul after he is dead. There is no scriptural support for that. Misunderstanding what Paul said about “if there was no resurrection of the dead, why are folks being baptized for the dead?” He did not mean that should be done. He said to get folks attention when he was talking about end times when Jesus would come back for his followers.
Every day opponents of gay rights die, while supporters continue on increasing their numbers.
Falwell wasn’t the most virulent anti-gay crusader. However, he has been a part of a lethal movement of hate, and has advocated the heartless ex-gay crusade that teaches people to hate themselves if they cannot change their biological orientation.
Those ‘ex-gays’ that talk about how they were “changed” can be grouped in one category: Bisexual.
So the death of Falwell is not something to celebrate. There will always be opponents of gay rights, but they will be dying off as the years go by, or changing heart, as supporters increase. Then, gay marriage will be legalized to the chagrin of the hateful. What must be celebrated is the passing of time in general, not the death of anyone in particular.
Okay… I’ll be jumping up and down in happyness when Paul Cameron or Fred Phelps dies. For Phelps, I’ll be counting the days he spends in Hell.
It is hard for me to think of Mr. Fallwell without remember Sept 11. While people were desperately searching for their loved one who might be buried in the rubble of the World Trade Center or the Pentagon, he was saying on Pat Robertson’s show that America deserved this tradgedy. I don’t hate Mr. Fallwell, but ever since that day, I have never been able to understand why so many national figures continued to associate with him. At one of the saddest moments in recent history in the country, Mr. Fallwell was spewing hatred and venom not just at gays, feminists and secularists, but at America itself. His anti-American rhetoric was in sync with the propaganda coming from Bin Laden at the same time.
I am amazed that a man who has expressed such hatred and loathing for America and it’s people continues to get the attention that he has recieved since Sept. 11. No doubt, many wil even eulogize him as a patriot. The irony is unbelievable.
I’ll pray for the repose of his soul like a good Catholic. But only because it’s my obligation to do so. And because I am a sinner just like he was.
But since I have nothing good whatsoever to say about him otherwise, I’ll keep my peace for now.
For now.
You can pray whatever you want, Jim. There is no command in the Bible which the RCC uses to support doing that.
I am a “sinner saved by grace,” too; but, unlike Falwell, I don’t have never preached hatred from the pulpit when I was asked to give a sermon.
I once thought I was going to have a problem with a minister who was American Baptist Church pastor when He quoted scripture about “being what one once was” after I revealed to him that I was gay. Bill Thompson was the pastor of All Tribes Community Church and I was riding with him to a Weds. night Bible study at the worship leader’s home.
What I was before I made a decision on my own to ask Jesus into my heart was only an 8 year old boy.
I was sort of surprised when he asked me to say the closing prayer and to ask the blessing on the refreshments which were going to be served after the meeting. While waiting for the ladies to set out the food, Clark Inkanish called me to come into his home office because he wanted to give me a Native American Style Christian Blessing.
I told Clark what Bill said in the car and he said, “Oh, don’t worry about him.” Clark had been ill for the 1st two Sundays I had been at church. I knew about him before I even met Bill; because he was a drug rehab counselor where Judy my therapist worked at an Indian Clinic.
Shouldn’t get off-topic here; but, after I became a member of ATCC, Clark and Bill both tried to get Tommy, the AIDS Educator at the clinic, to join, too. But, Tommy, who was my friend before I started at ATCC, declined because he was helping a minister get her church better established.
Joe wrote Those ‘ex-gays’ that talk about how they were “changed” can be grouped in one category: Bisexual.
Well, only some of those who got heterosexually married can literally be classified as “bisexual;” but, it seems that the majority of those with that marital status who claimed to have “change” use a wife and children as a “beard” to make folks think they are “straight.” If you were to get any of them to reveal their feelings and how they perform in bed with their wifes, you might see that they would admit that the sex took place only because according to scripture it was a husband’s duty to do that.
Ed, my late partner/husband, was married for over 13 years; he told me what a chore it was to have sex with his wife and he claimed those experiences affected his sexual activity with guys. He did manage to father 3 children during the marriage.
A Jewish perspective:
We believe that in death, we will stand before God and we will be asked NOT “Why weren’t you a better person?” but “Why weren’t you a better [your name here]?” Because being asked why I wasn’t a better Emily K makes me think of the potential that I had that went wasted. So too do Jews believe in a time of purification for the sinful in “Gehenna,” though this lasts no longer than 11 months. Falwell stands before God and must think about how he used his own potential as a human being – and how that affected humanity as a whole. But I believe his soul will (eventually) find peace. Prayers for Rev. Fallwell will be heard by God – so perhaps people will pray for his soul.
Emily, thank you for that perspective
Thank you Emily for sharing your perspective. That is very beautiful.
Re: You can pray whatever you want, Jim. There is no command in the Bible which the RCC uses to support doing that.
My faith is built on Scripture and ancient Tradition. And yes, the RCC does use the Bible for prayers for the repose of the souls. But it’s not my intention to turn this into a theological argument. This isn’t the proper forum, and I’m not interested in debating.
I respect your beliefs and your commitment to live and share your faith. I respect that even though it is different from my own. I can even respect it because it is different from my own.
If you appreciate the fact that others can be respectful when you share your faith, I would ask that you respect others when they share a faith that is different from yours.
That’s just good manners. And it is respectful to boot.
But, Jesus himself said that to those who claimed do public works in his name, preached in his name, etc., but did not take care of those who had needs to be ministered to, “Depart from me I never knew you.”
Also, the following in bold text is what Jesus, as the Heavenly King, planned to say as read in Matthew 25 (TNIV):
“Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.”
“Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?”
The King will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”
In the quote Scripture text, Jesus did not even ask the people before him to give an account for themselves. He already knew what they had done for him.
But, the unrighteous will be spoken to with Jesus saying what they did not do and they will be sent into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Jesus said, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am not judging Jerry Falwell; but, his fruits were revealed by the evil that he did in Jesus’ name when Jesus had nothing to do with Falwell’s evil hatred.
Joe, do you think this is a good place to debate doctrine? This is basically an obituary and you have 6, mostly lengthy comments and they are getting on the preachy side. Expressing your view is good, but try not to dominate the discussion.
Rev. Falwell did tend to bring out the worst in many people, and on all sides of theological debate. A spiritual gift I cannot find described in the Bible.
The only thing I can feel sorry about as far as Jerry Falwell is concerned is that he never said in public that he was sorry that he had said all the evil things he had said and since he had asked God to forgive, he would like all of the people whom he had wronged and slandered to forgive him, too.
There is no scriptural support for a minister of the Gospel to preach politics from the pulpit. Jesus NEVER criticized the Roman Government which was in charge of Israel when he ministered for 3 years on earth.
Falwell brought division into the family of God; he did not bring unity.
I have to say I’m rather disgusted by the response I hear coming from the “queer community”. I understand that the man said a lot of awful things about us. I understand that many people ate up his ignorance and disgust concerning us and it has filtered into the minds of many others: my parents are some of those whose views of gays have been affected by him, though often indirectly.
But if we can’t display grace and forgiveness, how can we claim membership in humanity? Particularly those of you who claim Christ, how can you not extend grace to Falwell? I’m not saying we ought to take abuse lying down. But this is not a war, and Jerry Falwell was not a casualty. He was a human being with a family and a soul and the imageo dei, however much we may believe he misused it. I am glad when I hear that things are changing, but I will not rejoice over this man’s death.
David, my answer is no, there is no reason to display grace and forgiveness for a man who caused so much pain and suffering—and who continues to cause pain and suffering after his death through Liberty University (a school created for the express purpose of pumping out mediocre lawyers to continue putting the screws to Mr. Fallwell’s politcal opponents long after his withdraw from the Moral Majority).
Mr. Fallwell may not have had bodies in his freezer but he did destroy thousands–if not hundreds of thousands–of lives through his actions and through his legacy. In my opinion, he deserves nothing from us but the same scorn we would give to a murderous tyrant or a serial killer.
While I personally do not celebrate his death, I see no reason to mourn or grieve for him, or feel any sympathy for those who carry on his work. I’ll reserve my sympathy for those whose lives he destroyed.
The Rev. Jerry Falwell was no serial killer. He killed no one. Stop the hate.
Falwell’s passing is sad for those who loved him. For others, it’s a waymark toward reaching the “promised land” of equality, as the “sinful generation” passes away, which was a lesson for the wandering Hebrews:
— “The LORD’s anger burned against Israel and he made them wander in the desert forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone.”
— Numbers 32:13 (New International Version)
Once again, I am facsinated by how quickly EXODUS can draft and post all SORTS of public statements (in this case, high praise for Falwell) when it is important to EXODUS — or when their media image is in peril.
STILL no anti-hate/anti-violence statement from EXODUS — even though Alan told me MONTHS ago that it “probably should be done” and was “do-able”. Also, STILL no public denunciation of the hateful things Cameron stands for — only a disavowal of his so called “research”.
Finally, no public EXODUS denouncement of NARTH for continuing to stand by Cameron. EXODUS and NARTH are still in bed together. You can easily tell what EXODUS considers important (Falwell) and what Alan Chambers feels is “not urgent” (taking a stand against hate). Sad, sad, sad.
I am NOT a member of the “queer” community! Before I even reached puberty, I learned that calling a person a “queer” was a bad word. But, I never heard what a gay was until I was in college.
IMO, a minister is only a “reverend” in the church or denomination which ordained him. Jesus did not approve of religious leaders using position titles or being addressed by them. Mr. Falwell was guilty of spiritual murder if you go by what Jesus said.
Jesus said, “ Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28 TNIV
The Greek word translated as “soul” in the quoted verse is “psyche.”
Jesus also said, “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” John 15:13. TNIV
Life in that verse is also “psyche.” If one understand what Jesus was talking about in both contexts, he would understand that Jesus was using a word which in Jewish thought included a person’s whole being, body, mind and spirit.
One time, my mother was talking about that Matthew verse in relation to verbal abuse used against others. The word translated as “hell” in that verse is “Gehenna,” which Jesus used as a metaphor for the “Lake of Fire,” the place of eternal punishment in the Book of Revelation. “Gehenna” was the Greek word referring to the “Valley of Hinnom” which was a rubbish dump outside of the walls of Jerusalem where fires burned continuously 24/7 to get rid of trash and dead animal bodies.
When one goes through a life of hell on earth due to verbal and spiritual abuse, he is in torment 24/7, too. Falwell abused folks like us spiritually continually by displaying his hatred in the public news media. He said on a SF radio talk show, “Homosexuals are brute beasts.”
There have been folks who tried to live according to what ex-gay ministries and Falwell, a supporter of Exodus, and found it impossible to change. Some said, “Well, I am going to go to hell anyway because God does not love me and won’t change me like I asked, I might as well go ahead and kill myself and get it over with.”
Religion and politics have been in the same room ever since the notion of greed came to the human mind. Spirituality is a personal matter. Those who wear it on their sleeve for power and wealth have a credibility problem. Those who believe fabrications are gulible. Those who repeat fabrications are liars.
The passing of Kurt Vonnegut inspired me to read “Cat’s Cradle.” Look, no cat, no cradle. Just like religious belief. An outstanding piece of literature. Here’s a little poem from the book that descibes how I feel.
“I wanted all things
To seem to make some sense,
So we could all be happy, yes,
Instead of tense.
And I made up lies
So that they all fit nice,
And I made this sad world
A par-a-dise.”
Heaven can wait.
“The Rev. Jerry Falwell was no serial killer. He killed no one. Stop the hate.”
Lou, I didn’t say he was a serial killer. I said he destroyed thousands of lives. He also caused pain and suffering in thousands more. That’s AS BAD AS being a serial killer in my book because when it comes right down to it, there’s no real difference between what Mr. Fallwell contributed to the world and what someone like Jeffrey Dahmer contributed to the world.
And that’s not hate, that’s a simple statement of fact. It may be a painful fact but it is a fact none the less.
Umm, Falwell destroyed thousand of lives? Who and how, exactly?
And how do those specific forms of destruction materially resemble or differ from murder, cannibalism and child sexual molestation?
Absent a material explanation, Robis, I’m afraid that your observations are bordering on the irrational. They are the sort of thing that one expects to hear from Fred Phelps.
Ronald Reagan’s electoral success in the 1980’s was in part due to Falwell’s mobilization of the Religious Right in this country. The Reagan Administration’s abysmal response to the AIDS crisis was probably related to their electoral reliance on the Religious Right. Falwell showed llittle compassion to those afflicted with AIDS and probably contributed to delays in the development of programs to care for sick AIDS patients or finding treatments for this new disease. He was at best indifferent to those suffering from AIDS, and probably contributed to making the overall situation worse.
But as a result of the AIDS crisis and our government’s indifference, the gay right’s movement developped new strength. The general pubic was treated to the pictures and stories of emaciated, young men dying while hypocritical religious and political leaders cited “morals” to justify their lack of humanity towards their fellow citizen. Mr. Falwell’s shameful public behavior in the face of this epidemic inspired people to stand up and fight back. More and more people came out of the closet.
LIke it or not, people like Anita Bryant and Jerry Falwell ironically are critical figures in leading to more acceptance of gays in this country. They were the face of anti-gay biotry, and the more Americans were exposed to them, the less comfortable Americans became identifying with these mean, uncaring bigots.
And so, John, an eye for an eye? Falwell wasn’t unhappy about the AIDS crisis so its OK to cheer his death? I’d say that’s a terrible standard to live by personally. Whether or not I agreed with Falwell on a wide variety of issues he was still a life, and that life is now gone. He may have been evil, I don’t know, I’m not qualified to judge him. I can’t say that I have a lot of nice things to say about him, I think he did do a lot of harm to us. But I refuse to fall into the same game he played, and now that he is dead I feel nothing but sadness for his family.
We Christians are not praying for Dr Jerry Falwell. We do not pray for the dead. Dr Falwell stands before God now and we are praying for his family to be comforted and experience the peace that comes from knowing their loved one is in Heaven. We give thanks for the good he has done and the things he accomplished that will effect eternity. Afterall, in the end, thats the only thing that matters, that which lasts for eternity. Things of earth are temporary. Dr. Falwell spoke at the Exodus conference last year expressing nothing but love and a desire to care and help those experiencing same sex attraction who wanted to pursue God. A person is not your enemy who tells you the truth. Dr. Falwell told the truth about the Bible. We must not go to the supporters of stealing and say we will agree with you and condone stealing so that you will feel better about being a thief because that is who you are. We must tell them what God says about stealing. The same is true with anything God forbids such as homosexuality. We must all be couragous enough to speak the truth in love as Dr Falwell did and support truth even when it is difficult. May God bless Liberty University and the Falwell familiy in a special way in the coming weeks. Linda
“Umm, Falwell destroyed thousand of lives? Who and how, exactly?”
I think John’s explanation of Fallwell’s involvement in the Reagan Administration’s reactions to the AIDS crisis of the 80’s is a pretty good start. Add to that the pain and suffering inflicted upon gay men and lesbians throughout all the years that the Moral Majority had an influence over the political treatment of the LGBT community over the past two decades and I think we can easily come up with thousands of people whose lives were destroyed by Fallwell and his actions.
“And how do those specific forms of destruction materially resemble or differ from murder, cannibalism and child sexual molestation?”
Please do show how murdering someone is somehow more egregious than crafting policies that contribute–if not directly cause–increased suffering and early death of those who are suffering from a disease. Fallwell may not have have blood on his chin from eating his victims but he certainly had it on his hands.
“Absent a material explanation, Robis, I’m afraid that your observations are bordering on the irrational.”
There’s nothing at all irrational about the assertion that Fallwell’s actions led to thousands of lives being destroyed, or that he is culpable in most of the deaths that were preventable had he not worked so hard to demonize and villify gay people. I’m not about to give him a pass because he is dead or because he did not have any physical contact with the victims in question.
“They are the sort of thing that one expects to hear from Fred Phelps.”
I’m not advocating picketing his funeral or anything, and I stated that I didn’t celebrate his death. I just don’t think there’s any reason to mourn or have sympathy for anyone in this case.
As an ex gay and a christian – I cannot in good conscience support the hateful things Falwell did and said during his lifetime. That too is being courageous enough to speak the truth. Falwell, misguided many christians to act hatefully and without love towards homosexuals. That was not biblical nor justified.
I do not know his heart at the time of his death or his private converstaions with God. I only hope he repented.
Ah Linda.
Thank you for demonstrating for us so very clearly the arrogance and self-righteousness inherent in those who lead the ex-gay ministries and their allies such as Rev. Falwell.
The absolute certainty you have about the translation of a handful of scriptures and the confidence with which you then weild those translations as a determinant about how to treat others distinguishing between love and care for “who wanted to pursue God” (ie those who agree with you) and those evil nasty people who can be blamed for terrorist attacks.
Yes, Linda, you see it as courageous to preach a doctrine of civil discrimination. You think it truth in love to seek to destroy families, take children from their parents, deny empoyment or housing protections, revoke medical insurance, and to in each and every way seek harm to the lives of gay men and women.
Thank you for reminding me, on this day when I was being charitable to the memory of Rev. Falwell, exactly why it is that his legacy is not one of peace. Thank you for demonstrating so very clearly the type of self-righteousness that has given humanity the crusades, slavery, religious wars, the inquisition, and the current Culture War on the lives of gay people.
You see, I can forget sometimes that there are people out there who see it their purpose to impose on me their doctrines – however false – by force of law. But fortunately there you are to bring it to my attention.
So while I will lend my sympathies to the families and loved ones of Rev. Falwell, I will continue to be diligent so that those who carry his mantle – you, for example – will not be empowered to strike with your presumptions of “good” against the freedoms that I hold dear.
May the loving God I serve – from whom all good things flow – continue to protect his children in a special way in the coming weeks from those who have had their hearts hardened by religious arrogance and who seek to impose their burdens of the law on those who have been made free in Christ.
Robis – “Please do show how murdering someone is somehow more egregious than crafting policies that contribute–if not directly cause–increased suffering and early death of those who are suffering from a disease. Fallwell may not have have blood on his chin from eating his victims but he certainly had it on his hands.”
I’d say that it is more egregious to commit murder because you intend the death. Do you think Reagan was slow to act (and Falwell was advocating inaction) BECAUSE he wanted people dead? I don’t. I think they were slow to act because, first of all, it took time for everyone to realize the depths of the AIDS crisis. 20 years ago who could predict what was going to happen and develop with AIDS? We barely knew what it was, much less what specifically caued it at the time!
I don’t say that to justify Reagan’s slow response nor Falwell’s advocacy, but it at least explains the difference between that and actual murder, or, for example, Hitler’s “Final Solution.”
The Hate Crime’s Bill would have prevented Falwell from some of the very things he did to incite others into action against homosexuals. Inciting violence against others should be considered a criminal act. I’m sorry Falwell is VERY responsible for the demise of many, many lives.
I experienced job discrimination, housing discrimination, lack of church affiliation, violence, threats of violence, lack of police protection, vandalism etc… to my home andc personal belongings, and so have countless other people because of what that man promoted in his lifetime.
By my standards, he was a criminal and committed crimes against society. I beg anyone who reads this not to fool yourself into blind adherence to this man and his interpretation of the bible. READ the bible yourself and treat others with respect.
Linda,
The comparison of a homosexual as being like a thief is not…umm…accurate or particularly endearing. It would be more precise to compare me with an adulterer.
The newspaper today related a story about Mr. Falwell as being “at peace with himself and his God” when he visited with his son last Friday. Jerry must have honestly felt he was doing his best and truly believed he was doing his Maker’s work in this temporal existence.
Even though I’m an adulterer (in your judgment) I’m still as “at peace” with myself as you or Mr. Falwell. I could never denigrate the love I have felt, received and given to a few of the men I have known in my life as being sinful. That is between me and my conscience and I do not feel any guilt about it… not anywhere like being a thief.
And then you wonder why so many gays leave religion.
Linda: “We must all be couragous enough to speak the truth in love as Dr Falwell did and support truth even when it is difficult.”
Linda, if you REALLY believe this, are you personally willing to be courageous — and call EXODUS today to urge EXODUS leaders stand up against the hate being spewed by Cameron?
If what you are saying is true and EXODUS’s only mission is to “express nothing but love and a desire to care and help those experiencing same sex attraction”, then let’s see some love in action. Practice what you are preaching here and exhort EXODUS leaders to “support truth even when it is difficult” — by clearly standing against NARTH and Cameron.
Linda,
I pray that if you have a lesbian daughter that she not suffer the same as many of of us have. I pray that you stop the hatred towards GLBT’s. I heard more than once from those who prescribed to the “Moral Majority” that what a lesbian needs is a good f–k. And don’t you think for a minute that there are not men who will TAKE that to your daughter. I pray you with all my heart that you stand up and stop being so naive about Falwell’s brand of righteousness.
Kendall
You wrote: And so, John, an eye for an eye? Falwell wasn’t unhappy about the AIDS crisis so its OK to cheer his death?
I am confused. I don’t recall cheering his death. I have written two posts in this thread. The first reflecting on Mr. Fawell telling America that it deserved to be attacked on Sept 11. The second reflecting on his behavior during the beginning of the AIDS crisis.
Pointing out the things that he has done durng his life that most stand out to me seems an appropriate thing to do at the time of his death. I don’t subscribe to the premise that we are forbidden from mentioning the negative at the time of someone’s death. Would I bring this up in a personal conversation with his wife and kids? Of course not. But Mr. Falwell was a pubic person who took public positions for whatever reason he had. When public people die, it is commonplace to reflect on their career successes and failures.
Hey Linda,
Before you start spouting those injunctions in the Bible about ‘homosexuality’…how about we review those similar passages about ‘pork’, ‘divorced women’,
‘taking slaves only from neighboring countries’, ‘shellfish’, ‘Lot’s daughters seducing their own father’ and tens of hundreds of other biblical passages you ‘so-called’ Christians blow off as ‘not meaningful’ – horse-patootie, I say. What you should really review is your own bigotry.
Anyone, who believes “God forbids (things) such as homosexuality,” has to either rely on the 20th Century translation of the Bible or on what some KJVO (King James Version Only) preacher or Sunday School teacher told them they have to believe.
What we call homosexuality in modern times was not in the original Hebrew and Greek versions of the Bible.
The same-gender sexual activity which is mentioned in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 and in Romans 1:27 has to do with the abomination of idolatry and the worship of pagan fertility gods and goddesses.
The KJV translators when the Hebrew text was making reference to male votaries and holy things related to the worship of the Canaanite goddess, Asherah, and her cohort, Ba’al, used “sodomite” for the translation of “kodesh.” A male votary was a “kodesh” (a “holy” person) and there was no way he could be a “sodomite” since he did his job in Canaan and not in the Sodom which was not not even in the country of Canaan. When the female votary, a “kodeshah,” is mentioned in the Hebrew Scripture, the KJV folks did not call her a “sodomitess,” they called her a “whore.”
When those same Hebrew words referred to a person doing service for YHWH Elohim, the God of the Jews, the KJV called the person a “saint.”
Anyone who has read the whole story of Sodom in Genesis and how Abraham and Lot decided that Canaan was not big enough for the both of them, one will see that Lot chose to leave Canaan on the West side of the Jordan River and moved his family, his employees, his livestock and everything he owned to the East of the Jordan River and settled in the Plain of Jordan by setting up camp just outside the city of Sodom. “The Plain of Jordan is now the Country of Jordan which is still in the same location.
I certainly agree with you John that it is entirely appropriate to reflect on public figures status upon their deaths. Its natural also to take a negative perspective when a public figure has had a negative effect on you in some way, either through their policy or just from their perceptions and public statements.
I guess where we disagree is in the appropriateness of starting any sort of remembrance of Falwell as negative. Perhaps I’m overly sentimental or old fashioned (if that’s the case I think that’s possibly the first time that descriptor could be applied to me) but I don’t believe in denigrating a man who went through his life without directly harming another human being (certainly he advocated policies ultimately harmful to the GLBT community, and certainly he held detestable positions, but I’m unaware of direct physical violence he perpetuated.)
I do apologize for intimating that you “cheered” his death though. Obviously your standards do not have to equate to mine. Personally I consider the negative reactions and attacks on a dead man to be ghoulish, but that’s simply my opinion.
Kendall:
I would say that Falwell’s (and maybe Reagan’s) reaction was typical of fundamentalists at the time – indifference, mild joy, or even smug self-righteousness. After all the gays were getting what they deserved – AIDS being the judgement of god and all. Maybe this would cause them to turn from the evil of homosexuality (a cause for rejoicing).
Falwell was also memorable for being quick to blame gays and lesbians (among others) for leading to 9/11.
At times like those, he probably revealed his true heart, not the public view of it that he carefully crafted for popular consumption.
But I am not his judge; may God have mercy on his soul.
Mary:
Hate Crimes Laws would have done nothing to prevent Falwell from spewing hatred; it covers actual violent acts, not the indirect incitement.
SharonB – That’s a very grave charge, that you feel that Reagan and Falwell felt joy at the death of fellow human beings.
SharonB,
Falwell did make statements that AIDS was God’s punishment.
Reagan did not. Ever. He was guilty of indifference and of not recognizing the seriousness of AIDS. But according to his daughter (the one who so hated his politics that she wouldn’t use his name) we did not have any animosity towards gay people. Unfortunately the writers of the TV drama The Reagans created some fictional statement from the President that made it seem as though he viewed AIDS as God’s punishment. His family and friends were appalled at the callousness of the writers and refuted their bizarre charicature – but that’s what people will remember nonetheless.
Reagan’s response was irresponsible, too litttle, too late, and woefully communicated. But it wasn’t smug, joyful, or self-righteous.
On the other hand, I do agree that Falwell was smug and self-righteous and his response to a disease that was ravaging lives was startlingly inappropriate for a man who was supposed to be following a God of compassion and caring.
Kendall, Timothy:
Use of the “or” conjunction (not “and”) for the reactions.
Reagan: indifference
Falwell: smug self-righteousness, and mild joy (not at the deaths, but at the fact that this would surely cause more homosexuals to want to be straight).
I’m not one to say a lot of negative things about the recently deceased, even if they’ve hurt me, but your statement above did take me aback.
While he didn’t do direct physical violence to people, the spiritual, emotional and psychological harm was very real. I felt personally hurt and wounded at a deep level by Falwell for a number of years, especially when I was first trying to come to terms with being gay (in the late 80s and early 90s).
In 1998, when I started thinking about going back to church again or having anything to do with God, it just nearly killed me to think I would be associating with people who agreed with Falwell, Pat Robertson, etc. I wrote the following to the first Christian I corresponded with: “In the media, all I see is people trying to fight to keep me down. I see Fred Phelps. I see Pat Robertson making outrageous jokes…jokes about my life, about who I am. I see Don Wildemon and Jerry Falwell. I see the hate more than anything and it eats me up and crushes me and keeps me down. It has kept me away from god.”
I think I’d rather be physically beaten then endure the pain of their words and the effect those words had on my life for so many years, especially since I came from a family that respected, supported, and financed these ministers and organizations.
And anyway, a physical beating would have at least been obvious to those around me, whereas the kind of psychic and emotional pain they caused is something a lot of folks are still oblivious to.
Still, all that being said, I really do wish his family well during what could be a public grieving. I just don’t want to support the idea that as long as harm isn’t physical, it’s not real or legitimate harm.
Christine – I suppose in some ways my position is mildly irrational. I don’t mean that you should never speak ill of the dead, but in general I’d observe at least a decent period (and that is a term that is deliberately vague because you just “know” when it is right) before I start being overly critical towards someone I disagree with. An exception to that rule might be Fred Phelps when he dies. I’m not sure there is much positive to be said for that particular man beyond the generic “he died believing he was correct,” but at least Fallwell was much better than THAT particular low standard.
With that said, and since it seems relevant here somehow. I thought this blog post at Reason magazine’s website (for the record I’m a subscriber to their excellent publication) was interesting, detailing reaction from some of the people with sharp disagreements with Falwell over the years. Namely, Fred Phelps, Larry Flynt and Christopher Hitchens.
Falwell: smug self-righteousness, and mild joy (not at the deaths, but at the fact that this would surely cause more homosexuals to want to be straight).
I’m more cynical about his reasons for joy (hint – $$) but because I’m still feeling charitable I’ll refrain.
IMHO, Jerry Fallwell was neither a man of God nor a Christian, he was a politician, pure and simple, who used whatever he could to gain power, money and supporters. This is a man who made a career out of slandering, defaming, and dehumanizing, not just GLBT folks, but blacks, Jews and anyone else who did not subscribe to his personal interpretation of his “bible.” What he never did, at least as far as I know, was truly model the words and behavior of the Rabbi, Jesus of Nazareth.
I read Cal Thomas’ tribute to Fallwell in today’s USA Today, and Thomas made the point that Fallwell was very fun, warm and loving around his family and friends, and compassionate to members of his congregation. And that is the whole problem with Fallwell. Rather than actually acting like Jesus, who was not particular about who he treated decently, Fallwell saved his warmer feelings only for those who agreed with him.
That same warmth and compassion was not present when he called Desmond Tutu a “phony,” or when he supported racial segregation in the US and apartheid in South Africa. It was not present when he attacked innocent gays and lesbians, as well as women who would not be subservient, or Jews who refused to convert to Christianity (remember, Fallwell said the AntiChrist was likely already among us, and was, of course, a Jewish male).
The only lasting effect Fallwell has had on this country was to create unnecessary divisions among people who should have been friends and neighbors. No matter what individual good he was able to do in any one person’s life, it is more than outweighed by the negativity and hate he promoted and nutured.
I should feel compassion for his family, I suppose, but cannot. I cannot feel anything but relief that one of the ugliest voices in American life and politics is finally silent. May his memory be consigned to the scrap heap of history.
As for those who believe we should wait until some time after his death to criticize him, I remind them of his shameful and horrifying statements after 9/11. He did not even wait for the bodies to cool or the fires to go out before he attacked, again, everyone who disagreed with him.
It is interesting reading these posts on the aftermath of Fallwell whose passing has been widely reported here in Australia as well. The compassion and fairness offered to a person who contributed to so much suffering is staggering really. Here in Sydney we have our own Fallwells , you can imagine ,and as a gay ex-( religious christian) I now see jesus as a genius social reformer who realised that the only way to create heavon on earth was for all people to live from the distingsions of love and compassion .On the other hand we can create hell from the opposite .I can’t help feeling that Jerry Fallwell was, despite all intentions , a contributer to hell. I can forgive him for that and it sounds like you all can too, but i can’t forget.
“I’d say that it is more egregious to commit murder because you intend the death. ”
I disagree. I don’t think it any less egregious to look at someone in the last stages of AIDS and think that they got what they deserved. When one sees a body covered in sores and rotting away from five different kinds of cancers and still can say that it is deserved, what does that say about that person? A serial killer at least has the excuse of being mentally ill. Mr. Fallwell did not have that excuse.
“Do you think Reagan was slow to act (and Falwell was advocating inaction) BECAUSE he wanted people dead? I don’t. I think they were slow to act because, first of all, it took time for everyone to realize the depths of the AIDS crisis. ”
Mr. Fallwell’s actions were not because it took time to realize the depths of the AIDS crisis. He actively worked towards demonizing gay people because he saw AIDS as punishment for being gay. Let’s not revise history to make it look like Fallwell did not jump upon the chance to demonize those he did not like when it was presented.
“I don’t say that to justify Reagan’s slow response nor Falwell’s advocacy, but it at least explains the difference between that and actual murder, or, for example, Hitler’s “Final Solution.”
I don’t think it does, though. I still don’t see much difference between working towards policies that you know will cause such pain and suffering and directly causing that pain and suffering yourself. In fact, I think there’s something more evil about not doing the deed yourself. If you know you never have to get your hands dirty, it becomes easier to ignore the consequences of your actions.
Jerry Falwell…Moral Majority…memories of Nixon’s Silent Majority….
I have scanned many of the above comments.
It is easier to hate if I can take a man’s life in slivers, fragments and partial sentences.
Fallwell is a man of the 50’s, escaping a very dysfunctional family as a child and commiting to a faith that demanded conformity to a diverse array of moral absolutes. A constrictive faith. Something he likely welcomed compared to the chaos and abuse of his childhood…there were rules to life, to protect the weak and the vulnerable.
Anticommunist (before and during his life over 100 million people died worldwide under communism)
Segregationist
Philanthropist
Moralist
Televangelist
University Founder
PTL ministry dismantler
Pastor
Husband
Father
Fundamentalist
Recovering Alcoholic Supporter
Unwed Mother Advocate (I think)
Believer that Family Breakdown generally bodes poorly for society.
You know how painful it is to be hated in fragments and slivers, to not be seen, heard and loved solely because of who you love.
Everyday we repeat that wound, the Devil smiles, and God cries.
At my blog and on other venues (lists, Yahoo! Answers), I spoke about the importance of not dancing on this grave. I’ve been called wimpy in other venues–even my own wife said I was being superstitious. I echo what our Australian visitor said–I am SO GLAD to see fairness and honesty without celebration in a pro-LGBT venue. Thanks to all of you.
My grandfather (maternal) was an alcoholic and extremely abusive. For over 20 years, I feared and loathed him. For the three years he spent dying of cirrhosis, he turned his life around and gave me, my mother, and my brother a few precious good memories. At his funeral, I didn’t mourn his body. I mourned that I had only gotten to see so little of the good in him, and now I would never see any more, and he had no more chance to grow and change, and our relationship didn’t, either.
In a way, I mourn that Falwell and his relationship with a large chunk of America can no longer grown and change, too.
you had to kind of give the guy some credit, he did get a lot of previously quiet gays the spirit to get up, come out,
if only to disprove his theory that gay people are horrible predatory crazies that have hair-lips and drool on their ties.
David Blakeslee wrote: Fallwell is a man of the 50’s, escaping a very dysfunctional family as a child and commiting to a faith that demanded conformity to a diverse array of moral absolutes. A constrictive faith. Something he likely welcomed compared to the chaos and abuse of his childhood…there were rules to life, to protect the weak and the vulnerable.
Oh, David Koresh, leader of the Branch Davidians religious sect at Waco, Texas came from a dysfunctional family, too.
I have to be honest and say that my initial behavior, upon finding out about his passing, was disgraceful. There was definitely a great sigh of relief upon hearing the news reports. Then I realized if it wasn’t him it would have been another. It’s not as though he is the only minister that expresses an anti GLBT agenda. Sadly, those ideas are shared by a vast majority of popular churches across the country. But on our part, it’s not a very admirable defense when the LBGT community acts out scandalously towards the church. I don’t think it helps our case when we throw fire back at them.
Also, if Tammy Faye can go onto Larry King in her poor state of health and say such nice things about a man who made her out to be his mortal and spiritual enemy, then how can I act out so poorly? This man shamed her name and helped devastate her life and still she offers him forgiveness and tribute (true Christian right there). I do not love him nor do I like him, but I will not curse the name of a dead man. Just because he has passed does not mean that any of the battles we have with the religious right have been won or done away with. We must continue to fight for what’s right and continue to demand a major change in politics and religion. Jerry Falwell passes away and what do you see, but a bunch of people wagging their tongues just as horribly as him. He will be judged. It’s not up to me.
Both Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye Bakker Messner forgave Jerry Falwell for how he treated them when they thought he as their friend. I don’t know what Jim Bakker thinks/believes about gays and lesbians.
But, Sister Tammy Faye no longer judges gays and lesbians. She genuinely uncondtionally loves them.
Their son, Jamie Charles, who now goes by Jay Bakker, told Larry King that when it become legal for gays and lesbians to get legally married in the State of New York, he would be willing to officiate at a same-sex wedding if asked to do so.
Tammy Faye deserves your thoughts and prayers since she now has cancer. It is very trying for Jay to deal with that and to continue in the Revolution Church ministry he has started in NYC.
I never hated Jerry Falwell; but, I hated the way that he treated gays and lesbians and slandered them. What he did in that regard is one of the many sins listed in Romans Chapter 1.
He has gone to a better place
amen Jon!
We who believe in Jesus will not know where Jerry Falwell went until we ourselves go to be with the LORD for eternity.
A number of Bible teachers and preachers have stated that those who don’t have a right relationship with God before they die won’t even be missed in heaven. Folks who knew each other before they died or knew about before they died will know each other in heaven.
And, those who individuals who say they will see someone in hell (when they really mean the Lake of Fire) apparently will think that they will be the only one there. Nothing is said in the Bible’s pages about people knowing each other in “hell.”
I just looked at the MySpace profile page of Josiah Torres and I see that he used very non-Christ-like language there. When a person gets salvation in Jesus the Christ, his language is supposed to show that he is saved, too. His religion listed is “Christian – Other.”
My father became saved and fully Pentecostal all on the same night. His family said it was a miracle that he stopped using cuss words and vulgar language immediately. And that was because he could no say even just a few words with out using foul language.
Oh, I use “Christian – Other” as my option for religion only because they don’t give “Believer in Christ Jesus” as an option. There is no Biblical support for one to call himself “Christian,” especially since the word only appears 3 times in all of the New Testament.
Joe,
Jerry Falwell equals David Koresh?
Yowsa.
No excuses suggested, only context, in providing a brief narrative that includes upbringing about Falwell. Religious conversion during late adolescence is common and for a variety of reasons. I think Falwell’s was in reaction against the consequences of an alcoholic home.
He was mistaken at times, overtly mean at other times, but the bulk of his life work is constructive and altruistic.
I know when I see Christ face to face, everything will be clear, and my grief will be deep for the wounds I self-righteously, thoughtlessly and callously delivered.
It is easy for me to imagine Jerry in the same predicament now with his loving Savior, sobbing and grieving, seeing more clearly how he harmed, marginalized and overlooked those with Same Sex Attraction and others.
Amen, David. Well said.
Well said, David. Well said.
I just looked at the MySpace profile page of Josiah Torres and I see that he used very non-Christ-like language there.
Joe, that’s just tacky.
Personal attacks on others based upon what language they used on their own site is really irresponsible and not appropriate for this type of site.
Timothy said:
Agreed.
What I wrote was not a personal attack against Josiah Torres, if a person claims to be a “born-again Christian” in forums such as this one and in MySpace Discussion Forum Groups, what the person posts in his online profile should not contradict what he claims to be in forums. I consider him a hypocrite. Jesus said, “By their fruits you shall know them.” Torres’ very unchristlike language in his profile which he wrote himself is a sign of rotten spiritual fruit.
I do not use filthy ungodly words in my own MySpace Profile nor in the blogs which I write connected with it. None of my “Friends” can post a comment on the home page or add a comment to any of my blog entries unless I approve it first. Besides, unless a MySpace Member’s Profile is set to adults only or to “private,” there is not supposed to be anything vulgar posted on the member’s homepage, in the blogs, or in the picture albums.
Joe, how is this much different than those who say that gays cannot possibly be Christians because what they do is unGodly, and that our “fruit” (i.e., homosexual relationships) shows that gays are not “born again.”
I know a lot of Christian people (many straight) who swear and this is just kind of crazy and out of the blue.
I think there was much more in the Bible about judging others than there is about swear words.
Joe Allen Doty,
It is entirely inappropriate to be judging a fellow commenter’s spiritual condition and we will not tolerate it. Please also refrain from any more statements that begin with “There is no Biblical support for…” or similar. Constantly placing your interpretations of scripture front and center is also inappropriate here, and very annoying. You may call yourself whatever you like, but your reasons for doing so are not necessarily Holy Writ for the rest of us.
Edit: I should probably qualify my second request concerning Biblical interpretation. To say that one doesn’t see Biblical support for hatred of another, for example, is one thing. But using personal interpretation to criticize another commenter or, by repetition and emphasis, judge something as trivial as their use of the term Christian over Believer, is over the line here. The fact that such incidents are so rare would seem to indicate that most commenters are instinctively aware that this is not part of civil debate.
Now that we’ve all completely strayed from the main topic, I’d like to say a couple of things as well.
First, thanks to all of you that wrote in response to Joe Allen Doty’s opinions, views, and perceptions of religion and people.
Joe, by no means do I go as far as to claim that I am a born-again “perfect” or “good” Christian. Actually I’d much rather refer to myself in that aspect as a “Non-Practicing Christian”. Religion and spirituality is a very personal part of my life. So when my intentions regarding such are questioned, like many others, it sadly urges me to stray even further from referring to myself in any way as a Christian.
Also, by no means did I include a link to my MySpace page so that people on this forum could research my day to day life style and interactions. It was merely made available to people here so that if what I have to say intrigues them, they have a way of contacting me and getting to know me on a personal level. Mainly to continue dialogues that were started here and discuss them further. It saddens me that you used information on my personal webpage to question my integrity and slander my spiritual “health” and “fruit”.
I have to agree whole heartedly with Christine’s response. She stated “how is this much different than those who say that gays cannot possibly be Christians because what they do is ungodly, and that our ‘fruit’ (i.e., homosexual relationships) shows that gays are not ‘born again’.” Exactly what I had in mind once I read his posting. Not that I agree with the opinions of Christians that say homosexuality is a sin, but it sounds like the same thing. It’s coming from the same place. So in turn, I would go as far as to say that you sir are a hypocrite. That said, what have we solved other than exchange of a bunch of labeling and name calling. This is disturbing at the least!
In closing I’d like to ask that from now on you can refrain from straying off topic and no longer target me with your negative idealistic opinions of what a ‘real’ Christian should be, act or sound like. In my opinion, since you’ve voiced yours, I believe that using curse words is probably the least harmful of the many horrible sinful things going on in the world that people do on a day to day basis (rape, murder, incest, war).
One more thing before I go. I’d like to express my respect for your father. Sounds like an amazing man! You stated “My father became saved and fully Pentecostal all on the same night. His family said it was a miracle that he stopped using cuss words and vulgar language immediately. And that was because he could no say even just a few words with out using foul language.” That’s a lot of will power. Admirable to say the least.
So, how about that Jerry Falwell?
Hi Josiah…mommy here. I think the fact that you thought out (in a Christian sort of way) the fact, first and foremost that you will not speak ill of someone who can no longer debate nor defend his intention or theories, thoughts or beliefs. His end is complete and now, judgment. I applaud you at such a young age for thinking more clearly than a lot of “bashers” as he bashed…they should not lower themselves to the level of something abhor. However, in my humble opinion, I was appauled at his his statements and how he handled PTL with regard to people that made errors, regardless of how grave. The fact that he didn’t just “praise God” in every detail of his life, and the fact that he died a rich man abounding in his Christianity and political infiltration, as far as his strongly state, almost hatefully stated, views and concerns about homosexuality being the reason for 911 attacks, left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I believe in Jesus….I believe he was the son of God and that he will return. He is the Messiah…however, I also believe that he was kind. He was loving. The story of Mary Magdalene speaks for itself. His healing power, his charisma and his compassionate nature won the souls and hearts of multitudes within a short three year span of his “works”. It never ceases to amaze me that, whether other people’s lifestyles are right or wrong, or in accordance with the bible, that they are unable to be the loving people that Jesus was teaching us to be in order to get his message accross.
Gays can have all the rights they want except marriage. Also, I don’t need you teaching my kids about gayness. Keep your gay literature out of our schools. I will teach my kids respect and tolerance through my actions. I have gay friends and my children will respect and embrace them as I do. Gay is not natural but it needs to be respected and accepted in society. This is a larger topic of teaching our entire society about equality and tolerance, not about teaching and recruiting our children into the gay lifestyle and your radical agenda. Gay/trans is one of the social ills of capitalism.
OOOOOKKKKKKKK! We could go down the list of ways gay people do not have the same rights (such as the ability to serve one’s country). Marriage is treated as a privilege in our society, but it is also an unfair system. By not allowing gays to marriage, you actually hurt marriage as an institution. For example, read this article out today about a man paying alimony even though his wife is in a relationship: https://www.latimes.com/la-me-gaywed22jul22,0,315735.story?coll=la-home-center. If it was marriage, this could not happen. No one is teaching your children about gayness, and your odd friend/social ill commentary is just strange. I think this might be a troll.
Matt, perhaps you might e-mail all of your gay friends the comments you wrote above and ask them over for dinner to discuss your thoughts? (I’m serious; it might be an interesting discussion.)
Ahoy Matt!:
* You sentence gays to a lifetime of non marriage.
* You think gays are teaching kids about gayness.
* You believe there are gay literature in schools.
* You assume gays are recruiting children into the gay lifestyle.
* You commented gays have an agenda.
Are you sure you would be teaching your kids tolerance?
How about this:
* There are more straight divorce cases than gay marriages.
* MTV is teaching kids 24 hours a day how to live a promiscuous straight life.
* There are graphic romance novels available in schools.
* Kids are being recruited into criminal gangs everyday.
* Straights do not want gays to have a life in their agenda.
If being gay or being transgendered is one of the social ills of capitalism, then accept that being straight is its major incurable disease.
It is off topic, but I would like Matt to read this carefully and ponder:
https://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=6222§ionID=12
Matt —
A few questions to pose before I begin:
*Who and what, are you speaking in regards to anything specific from recent postings?
*What set you off on this “tangent”?
*Who recently brought up anything regarding Gay marriage and why start arguing about it here and now, especially in this blog?
*You’re making it seem like there is gay adult themed reading material being made available for young students in their school libraries. What kind of school are you sending your kids too?!
*In reference to your statement “I don’t need “you teaching my kids about gayness”, who exactly is the “you” that’s being referred to? And how are they trying to teach your kids about “gayness”?
*What Gay person in their right mind would befriend or understand you and your twisted logic and judgmental antics?
*Since you love blogging and voicing your opinions so much, perhaps you wouldn’t mind to elaborate on the statement you made. The one that went something to the tune of “Gay/trans being one of the social ills of capitalism”! Do your so called “friends” the ones that you “accept” know that because their gay you believe that they are both NOT NORMAL and ILL? Since your such a good friend maybe you could be the one to drive them to the hospital to get this “problem” treated and taken care of. I’d say, just put them to sleep. “Let the sick dog die” as they say, or is it “let the dead dog lye”, either way take care of it, rather in hindsight, DON’T!
Okay, so I thought I’d have more to say once I finished posing my questions, but perhaps I’ve said quite enough. I’m tired of paying attention to myself, how bout y’all? If this topic is going to continue, perhaps we should focus on writing blogs only relative to the subject at hand. Good idea everyone? I think so! Right then!
How bout that Jerry Falwell!
He was a hoot!