Over at Warren Throckmorton’s web site, Karen Booth of Transforming Congregations asked:
Other than shutting up and going away, what exactly do you want folk involved in the ex-gay movement to say and do?
My response (slightly edited):
1. Refrain from marketing treatments where there have been no scientifically rigorous outcome studies to determine either the actual efficacy or harm of “reparative” treatments. In other words, first do no harm.
2. Refrain from excusing and defending discrimination, harassment, unequal punishment for violent hate crimes, and a seemingly endless array of strawman arguments. In other words, love your enemy. Do unto your neighbor.
3. Refrain from shallow buffet-style “ministry” which ignores the Bible except for cherry-picked verses that serve one’s own partisan political agenda. In other words: Do not use the Lord’s name in vain.
4. Engage in ministry that is rooted in hospitality, charity, sharing, grace, and humility. Don’t behave like the Pharisees, who called attention and power to themselves at others’ expense.
5. Promote all life and all of God’s creation — reject greedy favoritism for selected nations, denominations, political parties, and social groups. Be a good shepherd, an effective steward of what God has given us.
6. Refrain from supporting, lobbying for, or partnering with organizations that seek to otherwise use ex-gays to pass legislation against same-sex-attracted persons.
7. Refrain from accepting minors placed into ex-gay programs against their will or through coercion.
8. Refrain from ex-gay identity politics. That is idolatry.
9. Never claim to speak for God. That is blasphemy.
10. Actually address concerns 1-9.
11. Address the reality and witness of the ex-ex gay community.
12. Recognise that there are faithful people who understand scripture and have come to a different view; that there is a range of Biblical interpretation regarding the so-called “clobber verses” and that there is room in the body of Christ for both. No part of the body can tell another that it is not needed.
13. Recognise that not every gay person is unhappy with our reality and that many live very happy and fulfilling lives. Do not bear false witness.
I don’t know about the rest of you but I liked “shut up and go away.”
Seriously, does anyone here believe that if they followed number 1 – Do No Harm – they would have any ministry left? As the priest sex scandals have shown, even a chastity only policy leads to harm. What else is left?
This request is personally mine. I don’t know how others here entirely feel about it since it touches on the ex-gay personal viewpoints on sexuality rather than harmful actions concerning manipulating research, and anti-gay politics that this blog has been primarily monitoring.
14. Explaining how every single gay person should remain celibate for life (since a heterosexual orientation for the majority of them is not possible) despite this being completely unpractical, unrealistic, and not to mention potentially harmful.
I enjoyed this, thanks. The biblical parallelism was fun 🙂
toujourdan:
Quite right, do they not respect the civil rights of ex-ex-gays? Isn’t their voice as important as ex-gays? Should schools not be required to teach the reality that ex-ex-gays exist along with their ex-gay message?
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera…
elegant. measured. clear. thank you.
would love to see if you get a response.
Through years of ministry I’ve slowly developed to your model above. People don’t wake up one day with understanding and wisdom. It comes through experience and learning. Thankfully, people like Mike Airhart have been a helpful voice in the way I’ve done ministry in the past. But, deep down, I don’t think there would be any way that the majority of readers here could ever agree to let the kind of ministry I’ve done continue, regardless of our practices. Just my thoughts.
Tom Cole:
I’m not sure anyone here is in the position of allowing or disallowing anything, but what is it about what you do that makes you say that? What exactly do you do which you think others here would not want to continue?
Discipling people with same-sex attraction who are conflicted by their feelings and their Christian beliefs. Standing in agreement with them that this is not God’s intent and helping them navigate their lives with that understanding. Praying with and loving them through the difficult road, whether that means celibacy for life, or heterosexual expression in marriage.
Tom Cole:
This is true. About eight years ago, I more-or-less secretly helped Tom Cole voice public opposition to bullying and harassment in the public schools, as he sought to join his voice as an ex-gay minister with other opponents of bullying. GLSEN opposed that effort and shortly thereafter GLSEN became involved in an unfortunate and somewhat scandalous incident involving sex-ed at a Massachusetts school.
Later, Exodus began to oppose anti-bullying efforts in public schools around the nation, and continues to do so. And as I recall, Cole was on the Exodus board when these changes took place.
Tom Cole:
No blanket objection from me to these goals — though of course the devil is often in the details.
Could you tell me how Exodus opposed anti-bullying efforts while I was on the board of Exodus? I served on the Exodus board for 3 years from 2001-2004. I am still verbal about the need for strong anti-bullying measures in public schools, regardless of the reason for the bullying. I believe that there have to be policies to ensure that systems put in place are followed through.
Tom, I would have to agree with Mike about the details. Part of my concern would be how you treat those who either do not have this conflict with their faith, and those who start out conflicted (the source of this conflict is not always what you might think) but then come to an understanding with God that allows them to accept both.
If you marginalize these people or attempt to curtail their rights to live their lives as they see fit, then I would personally have trouble with that. If, on the other hand, you simply want to be there for those who are genuinely unable to resolve this conflict, or who believe that God would have them remain celibate – not as a political or coercive statement but as one of personal faith – then I don’t know of anyone at XGW who would have a serious problem with that, myself included.
I have a number of friends who have made the decision to actively live out their homosexual feelings and we remain friends. I have never been one to cut off relationship for that reason. There has been one occasion when I did sever ties with a friend who left his wife. I believe that He was disobedient to God and I felt the leading of God that I needed to be honest with him, and unless He worked towards restoration, then I couldn’t be in relationship with Him. Every individual is different and so I don’t order my world with cookie cutters.
I have always had friends that disagree with me on many issues. I don’t isolate any of them for it. I treat everyone with equal respect and dignity. Each person is made in the image of God and He loves them. I likewise love them. Mother Theresa said we need to see Jesus in every face. That’s what I try to live by, however imperfectly that may be.
I’m willing to stand corrected, somewhat, regarding timing.
Cole says Exodus did not oppose anti-bullying efforts until after 2004. True, I first wrote about Exodus’ opposition to antibullying safeguards in 2005.
Until then, Exodus appears to have silently stood by while Focus on the Family and Exodus member activists (acting individually) campaigned against safe-schools programs and gay/straight cooperative alliances.
I welcome volunteers to assemble a more precise timeline for Exodus’ positions on violence in the schools. I believe it’s fair to say that Exodus has been apathetic at best.
Tom Cole:
Again, I do not know you personally but taking you on your word here I find nothing in that statement with which to disagree. I have friends who do not share all my views on these issues either and, while we sometimes debate, we are still very good friends.
You are certainly welcome to hang out here a bit more Tom and see if you can’t make a few more friends.
Thank you David!
Actually Mike A you have had a memory lapse. Hey it happens, we’re all getting old… (and curse your rules, now I’ll have to dredge it out from something last year). Momento please…
OK. You noted here that Tom Cole had indeed attempted to interest Exodus in an anti-bullying policy/whatever in 2001? — but was opposed “by others” at Exodus.
Tom — can you provide more illumination?
(I’m taking Mike’s “several years ago” in 2003 and your Board period to mean that it would all intersect in 2001).
On a side note (and trying to flesh this all out rapidly):
In you opinion, would telling fellow students they are “sinners” and “bound for hell” constitute bullying? Especially if repeated, and unwelcome?
In your opinion, would sending an unwilling minor age child to — say — Love in Action constitute bullying/an abuse of parental control?
Any comment/opinion on the prevailing research and opinions of experts on the subject that for anti-discrimination rules to work they actually need to specify what is unacceptable. ie a blanket “be nice” is insufficient, you must say “no racial taunts” etc?
Sorry, that’s probably a lot to answer in one swoop: feel free to break it down into bits.
Urgh, just to short circuit everything and avoid the inevitable…
There is a difference between saying: “I am Hindu. We believe that eating beef is wrong, because we believe…”
And: “You deserve to suffer if you eat beef. You are evil.”
Especially if you’re the only Muslim in an all Hindu school.
I have often wondered why gays are so vehemently opposed to ex-gays who have now become vocal. Although I can certainly understand the animosity gays might have for the religious right, the fact that a person should desire to seek the Creator for answer to the mysterious question of sexuality and sincerely believe that said Creator does have restorative powers to heal a fractured sexual image does not seem that far fetched to me.
Considering the number of professing gays who were once involved in heterosexual relationship prior to the exploration of their same sex feelings, it is not beyond the scope of human reasoning to think that it might be possible that the same encouragement to explore those same sex feelings might work in the reverse — encouragement to recapture heterosexual passions and understand the complex dynamics of attraction.
But it appears that “once gay, always gay” is some type of universal mantra that cannot be interrupted and those who dare trespass and attempt to defect to the other side of what I considered a very closed minded heterophobic way thinking are homophobic bigots, who promote hatred and intolerance.
Here’s a clue, this is what ex-gays want from gays: (1) Please stop trying to stamp out the voice of alternatives to the miserable existence and alienation that many do truly experience in that lifestyle and allow those who have faith in God to freely explore the possibility that He might have the answer to what many people perceive as a problem not because the of the media or social pressure, but a very deep cry of the soul that screams to the conscience that engaging in homosexual acts is wrong. (2) Please stop confusing your anger with the message of ex-gays with your own guilt from the remote possibility that you were not in fact born gay, but you made a choice and that choice can be reversed. (3) Please stop vehemently attacking those who subscribe to the belief that you can be restored to the biblical picture sexual wholeness, which despite all your arguments to the contrary, is the heterosexual model. (4) Please do not be deceived that just because your movement has enamored the media to promote the gay life style as a viable alternative that there are not just as many people who will never take the grand stage of affectation and yet live in the content and joyous state of liberty and sexual wholeness experienced from divine healing and restoration from homosexuality.
Dawn, Are you gay? Don’t answer that. I already know the answer.
Your perspective seems to indicate heterosexuals can become homosexuals on a whim. That everyone is really a heterosexual and only becomes a homosexual because of ________________ (you fill in the blank)? Basic curiosity? Please fill in the blank Dawn. I’m really at a loss as to how you feel sexuality is so fluid and dynamic in its focus.
And you think by some holy miracle, rather than science, is the only answer for the dreaded curse of homosexuality?
Wow. That line of thinking is rather…unique. I will admit I just had a co-worker tell me I should have sex with a woman to cure me of homosexuality…but she was being sarcastic…or was she? Hmmmm. Maybe there are people still running around with that notion in their heterosexist minds. I thought we had debunked those dogmas long ago…even here in my ultra-Red State.
I have often wondered why gays are so vehemently opposed to ex-gays who have now become vocal.
I, on the other hand, have often wondered why Dawn beats her children and kicks her dog. OK, I have no idea is Dawn does those things, but since she’s here making false accusations, I thought I’d join in.
Dawn wonders why “gays are so vehemently opposed to ex-gays who have now become vocal.”
Gay people in general couldn’t care less what these individuals decide to do with their lives. Personal choices are personal choices. But that is a two way street. What most gay people I know are opposed to is ex-gays (like Alan Chambers, Randy Thomas, etc) working to deny gay and lesbian people who accepted their orientation equal rights in our society.
If ex-gays and ex-gay organizations were primarily concerned with trying to find a way to reconcile their homosexual feelings, their religious beliefs and how the two come together in their personal lives, they might be pitied by other gays, but it is unlikely they would be reviled.
However, when you stand up and declare that it is okay to discriminate against gays and lesbians in employment, family law, police protection, immigation, adoption, education and in the US Constitution, then you have no right to be offended and upset when you are called a bigot and a homophobe. If you are going to actively participate in the culture wars, you shouldn’t be surprised when gays and lesbians fight back. After all, you started the fight.
Dear Dawn (who sounds like “Dawn” from PFOX),
You actually said it yourself:
There’s your clue. Name one “vocal” exgay who isn’t also involved in anti-gay politics. Just the one name will do.
Instead, what we find are people like you who:
1) falsely claim that people can change their sexuality, that they know they could change, and that the only reason we refuse to do is because we hate heterosexuals or some other absurd reason. Where’s your evidence?
2) falsely claiming that anyone gay should be miserable, and then working through politics to try and make our lives miserable. You’re the one attacking people, and then blaming them when you cause harm.
3) falsely claiming that when we stand up to politically active religious bullies we are being “angry” and “hateful”. No, we are merely standing up to someone who a bully.
4) falsely claiming that gay men and women are a threat, but that the media has conspired to hide this “fact” from the public. Has it ever occured to you that the reason we are not seen as a threat is because we aren’t? Ever wondered why negative attitudes decreased as we became more visible?
You know as well as we do that “vocal exgays” are part of an anti-gay campaign the seeks to destroy the lies of gay men and women if we refuse to conform to your religious views.
And you do this by lying about our lives, and you do this by deceiving people about “liberation from homosexuality”.
Want to be heterosexual? Go right ahead: nobody is stopping you or anyone. Nobody here cares if you’re gay, straight or anything in-between.
But want to go around telling lies about us, or having us treated as unequal citizens? Sorry, but expect us to refuse to let you get away with that.
Opposing your bigotry is our right.
Or is that another right you think we don’t deserve?
Some good thoughts here. Some unkind words too…
I wrote a response to this on my blog. Hoping to create dialogue. I’d love some thoughts on my thoughts!
Pomo, I’ve left this comment up but please, in the future don’t post comments which are essentially requests to view your blog and certainly not the same thing in multiple threads.
Thanks.