We have long noted the fondness that Exodus President Alan Chambers has for claiming that “hundreds of thousands of us have found freedom from the isolation and emptiness we experienced in gay life through the power of Jesus Christ”.
This Sunday the New York Times ran an article about persons who are unhappy with their same-sex attractions. While the story provided a good synopsis of services available in the NYC area, there was not much new to us. Except this:
It is unclear how many people participate in these programs, but a leading Christian organization in the movement, Exodus International, estimated in 2003 it had 11,000 in its affiliated ministries.
Hundreds of Thousands v. 11,000
hmmmmmmmmm. I think it’s time for More Math Magic
Let’s see…. with about 125 ministries, that’s about 88 per ministry (though new reports tend to mention lower numbers of attendees)… and assuming 1/3 drop out, and that the average person who doesn’t drop out fairly soon lasts about 2 years (just a guess), oh that would be about 3,700 freedom finders per year. And if we assume that “hundreds of thousands” is, let’s see, at least 200,000 then we can see that Exodus reached its number after only
54 YEARS
Oh that can’t be right.
Sigh. Now it’s your turn.
Timothy,
Exodus did not start out with 125 ministies. I don’t know if that is their highest number of affiliates or if it peaked some time in the past. But you do need to take into account the lower number of ministries in previous years and make adjustments. I could only guess since I don’t have the numbers, but I am sure that it would add many more years to the 54.
Oh, and I thought Exodus was only 30 years old at this point. Perhpas Alan, et. al. are just getting ahead of themselves.
Hmmm…the ministry I went to in Denver almost never had more than 30 people attending (that was maybe the number that would come to a Christmas party, including gays, ex-gays and a few ex-ex-gays still friends with those in the ministry).
And this is the largest ex-gay ministry in Colorado. Focus on the Family used to even send people up to Denver from Colorado Springs to attend, because there wasn’t anything in Co Springs.
Every other program I’ve investigated or gone to had much fewer attendees than that, and even fewer gay attendees (or ex-gay, depending on who you talk to).
Even if they count people who have attended in the past, they can’t know how many of us are ex-ex-gay now. And the ministry has a “parents and friends” group, so that subtracts a few more from the number of “strugglers.”
Then of course, one of the things many ministries have been doing is to open up their programs to people who are experiencing sexual addiction, or are recovering from abuse. There were always a good number who fit that category and were straight.
Math is not one of my strengths but even I can see how flawed these numbers are.
I don’t know who is going to read this, but I like this web site because I am a gay Christian. Would someone please fix this web-site so that you can watch ENTIRE video downloads from You Tube instead of just about 3 minutes of an near 8 minute video? I am finding this with all of them. For some reason you cannot watch an entire video on this site and it’s VERY ANNOYING and FRUSTRATING because a person would like to see what the subject is about, and, just when they are going somewhere, it stops. I can’t figure it out and I’ve got a fairly good computer. So, PLEASE FIX THE VIDEO PROBLEM!!! THANK-YOU, and God Bless You ALL!!! -Paul-
I just heard from an insider that Love in Action currently has only EIGHT participants in their program for adults and no teens at all..
Like Christine mentioned, not all participants are enrolled because of SSA. LIA has diversified their portfolio in recent years to include much more than just plain jane gays.
Hey…what’s a little fibbin’ when you are doin’ the work of the white baby Jesus?
And what about the (literally) hundreds of 1000s of us who have experienced loneliness and isolation as gay christians? When will WE be free?
And what about the (literally) hundreds of 1000s of us who have experienced loneliness and isolation as gay christians? When will WE be free?
When you decide to be free. No one is going to do it for you.
I got it. Maybe EVERYONE experienced change. That gets you to 36 years.
That’s it! Everyone changed! Voila!
Aw heck. I used the word “voila”…
It’s obvious that the number of ex-gays is some irrational number and quite possibly a transcendental number. Probably some sort of function of eγ.
11,000 is way too high.
Unless you count blow-ins, people who vanish for 4 months and come unannounced to “session” etc etc. Or roll up once a year for that Xmas Party Christine mentioned. Perhaps 88 on the mailing list, maybe.
Being the sort of fellow I am, I work with both headcount and FTE. Full time equivalent. And that is nowhere near 88 per 125 ministries. Best est, for what it’s worth: approx. 2000 to 2500 actively attempting exgay via Exodus. And less than 80% of ministries actually active.
Surely Exodus could just tap into their computer and pull up the list or something? You know, from the database? The same one they use to provide careful, legal oversight of their “member ministries” and the clients … oh.
–SNARKINESS ALERT ON–
Well I’m sure that the “hundreds of thousands” number is derived at using faith-based math — a math I’m sure entails a certain amount of Creationism Theory.
–SNARKINESS ALERT OFF–
Maybe they use MATH instead of math.
Ya know, from:
math is to MATH as
truth is to TRUTH
Or maybe they just LIED, because “tens of thousands” just sounds too cool to be disbelieved.
When you live in a world based purely on denial, it’s easy to convince yourself of anything. Been there, done that. The Exodus group I was a part of would have been overjoyed to have 20 let alone 88 SSA (Grrr… I Hate that term!) strugglers.
Shame on Mr. Chambers for making Exodus a political arm of the religious right instead of using its resources to gather verifiable evidence of claims of orientation change. Shame on Focus and the other so-called family values organizations for not doing the same. Shame on those who have made this about politics rather than the truth. Shame on those who continue to make many churches unsafe places for discussing sexuality, even for those who claim to have achieved the change of orientation they so vociferously demand.
And shame on those who claim change but do not stand up in significant numbers, who do not speak out for the cause. Who, now they are straight, do not have the time nor the courage to make their presence known. Who literally have gone back in the closet. If you really believe that you are cured, that you have changed, if you have any integrity at all, you as a group should be a voice that cannot be silenced. And I’m not referring to posting on web sites, or anecdotes on web pages, or even testimonies in churches. Nor am I referring to the chatter by those who profit by working in ex-gay ministries and programs. I’m talking about people who are willing to be transparent in the service of the One they say changed you. People who would be willing to put their reputations aside to let the truth be known, to submit to evaluation and study; to back up what is being claimed with more than fancy words and religious language. Your silence is telling, deafening. Some would say that’s proof that change is impossible and I think they are right, the reason for the silence is that there was no true change and you knew that all along. But then again, how can I or anyone else really know when you won’t do the right thing and come out of that closet that other Christians shamed you into, that closet that does not allow you to proclaim openly the change that you say has happened to you.