The Malcontent has video of Richard Cohen’s appearance on CNN. CNN’s website also has video. Pam Spaulding offers background on Cohen, and Steve at A Tenable Belief reacts to Cohen’s techniques.
Warren Throckmorton seems as freaked-out by Cohen’s antics as other XGW readers are. He emailed me last night after writing about it on his blog:
When my wife watched the clip (I taped it), she said she couldn’t get past the “ick factor” to even evaluate what was said. We discussed which was the ickiest, the tennis racket slamming the pillow while screaming at mom; or the client-cuddle technique where Richard holds his client like a baby in a kind of nursing position. We couldn’t decide.
[snip]I think Deborah Feyerick did a good job of keeping her journalistic game face on during the pillow assault and client hugging.
Exodus has recently distanced itself from Cohen, no longer listing him on their “Other Helpful Organizations” page and has taken a position against touch-therapy. I emailed Alan Chambers this morning seeking confirmation of Exodus’ position and Alan was kind enough to reply indicating he is equally horrified by what he saw and reiterating Exodus’ position:
“Holding therapy is one of the “techniques” that Exodus forbids its members to use.”
Note: When people many of us disagree with are willing to share directly with Ex-Gay Watch I expect readers to treat them with respect. You may disagree with what they say but do so politely in your comments. I won’t hesitate to delete rude or inappropriate comments.
Daniel Gonzales, the link for Steve’s blog actually goes back to Pam; the ATB post is here.
He’s actually “cuddle therapy”ing that guy WHILE HE’S BEING INTERVIEWED???!!!!
Ok, it’s like one of those old puzzles on the back of McDonald’s placemats- how many ethical violations can you spot in the above picture?
The good news – I think this is the beginning of the end for anyone that remotely takes this crap seriously.
He should’ve just jumped on the couch and profess his love for Katie Holmes.
Jamiel calls me into the room to watch this and it was appalling!
I mean Oh…my…GOD!!!!!
1. No, absolutely NO therapist of any kind can touch a client.
2. The violent and angry physical demonstration (yes, hitting that pillow with a racket represents violence) as response to (ho hum) mom’s dominance.
3. The suggestability factor that this client ‘suddenly remembered’ that he’d been molested as a small child.
4. The child like expectations that the client had that he’d find the right opposite sex mate-via the net, no less.
5. Cohen is unlicensed…and wonder how much he charges regardless of his lack of credentials.
What you bet his ex gay cohorts might back off of publicly supporting him until they think the heats off?
I have nothing but compassion and sympathy for the client. Mostly because his insecurities were exploited. And I doubt he really was molested. That’s just one of the noodles that Exodus, et al throws at the wall.
I have another one to throw out there for all y’all.
I’m suspecting that the wives of ex gay men are themselves pretty insecure or women in serious denial.
We don’t qualify the real intimacies between our presumably hetero neighbors.
But I’d be interested to know how intense those relationships really are.
If they are as much as hetero ones are.
The reason I’m wondering is, the client seemed to be working his new sexual orientation like a new suit.
But to me, it was like a bad fit.
An affectation, not an authentic attraction like I know STRAIGHT men really have.
A person that isn’t straight, won’t be all THAT comfortable with what straight people do.
Or what they THINK straight people do.
The vibe I get from ex gays is straight caricature.
And the opposite sex spouse and kids isn’t enough. That’s superficial.
What makes us straight goes deeper than that, just as being gay does.
I may not have any gaydar…but I know a silicone straight person in a heartbeat.
What’s really pathetic when it comes to that client is…gay men are affectionate all the time!
There is no dearth of same sex non sex affection, so why would Cohen and all the other ex gays say it’s a problem or there’s a lack somewhere?
Playing affectionate ‘daddy’ to that guy creeped the HELL out of me.
Y’all can correct me if I’m wrong…but Cohen represents a range of ex gays, and I wasn’t kidding when I told you they are all sounding and behaving too much alike.
And as an ever straight…to me, don’t ring true.
“What’s really pathetic when it comes to that client is…gay men are affectionate all the time!”
Good point, Regan. I’ve very often seen gay guys show non-sexual affection. It isn’t at all rare for friends to curl up together to watch TV without any sexual context at all. And most greatings in the LA gay world are with a hug or a kiss.
Though we don’t really get into the crazy infantile positioning that Cohen and his client did. That’s just freaky. I don’t see much healthy in holding someone like an infant.
ummmm–Whose father would hold his son like that anyway? That is kind of creepy. I swear that the client was going to start sucking Cohen’s breast. That was one of the strangest, funniest exgay video things I have ever seen.
Twisted.
‘Cuddle Therapy’:
Suppressed Homoeroticism.
If Cohen actually saw non-sexual affection among gay men as the normal thing it is, he’d have no excuse to cuddle his clients.
I believe Cohen knows non-sexual affection is normal among gays — but by publicly de-normalizing it, Cohen can charge clients a fortune for what they would get for free from real friends.
And the answer to the client (paraphrased), “are you heterosexual now?” was, “I am a happier person.”
Not a straight answer – need we say more?
Thanks Tim. I really need you all the remind me I haven’t lost MY mind, but that the most prominent ex gay folks seemed to have lost THEIRS.
The illogic of what they are saying…depending on who they are speaking to, as opposed to what I KNOW can’t be right.
The thing about the ex gay folks and their supporters…it’s hard to follow someone who is running in two different directions.
I thought at first, that I had simply been to slow too follow.
But that’s not what it is….
They don’t know where they are going either.
Frankly I don’t like how they represent what straight life is or is supposed to be.
There are deep instincts with it. It’s not just the things they talk about.
I mean lots of people have experienced all the things they say are a part of ‘becoming gay’ or ‘overcoming’ it.
Without ever being gay.
And the odds are that those things will happen to someone who is going to be gay anyway.
I was thinking about the usual activity of ex gays and their ministries.
One conclusion I can come to is this:
They can say all the while that their well is clean.
And there is truth to it, as long as they’ve poisoned all the other wells so that the only one to feel safe to drink from is THEIRS.
So their claims of the truth, are a part of the equation, just not the whole of it.
And the whole of it is everything if we are to believe their truth is RIGHT.
Personally, I am not an affectionate person–it is just the way I am and have always been. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. My spouse is very emotional and affectionate. I have straight male friends who are very affectionate, but I keep them at arms-length (especially one of my straight military friend who creeps me out with his constant need for male touching). I do not see how affection and bonding relates to sexuality personally, and I could never use Cohen’s method.
I grew up with very affectionate people and lots of male bonding–I was bothered then by the emotional aspects, and I still am.
If you’re into S&M, perhaps Cohen’s methods can be combined: hold someone tenderly and beat them with a paddle while you scream about your mother.
Sorry guys but a therapist can touch a client in appropriate non-sexual ways if the client gives the therapist permission (in writing) to do so. I have a psychotherapist who is studying touch therapy at an APA approved school for people who have been abused or experienced trauma. You all should know that there is not only one kind of therapy. There are many different roads to healing and various modalities to achieve that end. Psychosomatic touch can be very helpful in the healing process in healing people with trauma. Gay men could benefit a lot from touch therapy (non-sexual) and we all could learn a lot about healthy personal boundaries through this process.
Where Cohen is dead wrong is in using touch therapy for healing homosexuality. That’s like using psychotherapy in order to make a black person become white. It’s ludicrous. No wonder these clients (so-called ex-gays) become so dependent on ex-gay therapy and the ex-gay lifestyle (the ex-gay industry) in order to feel whole and “normal”. They often become employed by religious organizations affiliated with Exodus, write religious ex-gay books, etc. It typically becomes an entire lifestyle for them as opposed to “going straight” and then becoming just your average Joe heterosexual.
Anyone who has issues with balanced and healthy affection needs to go to see a counselor because affection is lifegiving and lifesaving. Babies who do not have affection will die, even if they are fed on a normal basis. Adults who do not have affection in their lives eventually deal with depression, isolation and other health issues. Touch is an essential element of survival for the human species. Just look at Primates (our closest relatives according to scientists) they all are very social, touch oriented and they typically cannot survive very long in a touch deprived environment.
An occasional reassuring touch maybe if it’s ok with the client, but holding like that seems very unhealthy for both parties. Even if neither of them is secretly getting their freak on, that’s a really good way to create emotional dependency.
Regan wrote: “I was thinking about the usual activity of ex gays and their ministries.
One conclusion I can come to is this:
They can say all the while that their well is clean.
And there is truth to it, as long as they’ve poisoned all the other wells so that the only one to feel safe to drink from is THEIRS.
So their claims of the truth, are a part of the equation, just not the whole of it.
And the whole of it is everything if we are to believe their truth is RIGHT.”
-(I realize this is a bit off topic, but I think it applies generally)
You hit the nail on the head Regan. That’s the problem with the entire theocratic right. Their ultimate “truth” is based on exclusivity, which is exclusively subjective. ‘My religion is the only correct one,’ ‘my interpretation of my religion is the only correct one,’ etc. It shows up best in the creationism / evolution “debate.”
The truth of science, logic, as in Method-o-logical standards, is universal and is meant to be applicable by and to everyone. Poison the well of science and you can throw out logic itself as a means to discovering truth.
Since they don’t have any more truth to dis-cover they must establish it in order to “prove” it. Their concept of truth itself is inherently flawed because you could never universally prove exclusivity. The only way they can do it is by forcing the outside world around them to conform to their delusions. Once they see everything they disagree with made illegal, they can say “see, I have been proven right.” The problem is, even if they were to establish a theocracy, it’s going to be the most insanely radical minority among even them making and enforcing those laws.
That’s why they use junk science, especially when it comes to the gay/ex-gay issue, so as to appear legitimate. “No it’s not just because the Bible says so, I have scientific studies and statistics to back up my claims (even though I don’t believe in science).”
Wow. Being a transsexual, trying to figure out how Cohen would apply his brand of conversion therapy to “repair” all those “men-who-want-to-be-women-so-they’ll-be-comfortable-with-men” transsexuals makes me glad I’m not an “ex-transsexual” client of his.
Point taken Mr. Clark, I see I wasn’t exactly clear.
If the therapy was specifically to help a person become comfortable with touching and non sexual affection-of course I understand there are sufferers.
Children who have never bonded with a parent for example or autistic children benefit from such therapy.
Of course the need for touch is normal and beneficial.
But that’s not at the heart of normalcy for ex gay therapy.
Evidently, ex gay ministries such as LIAR for example, use extreme deprivation and control access for their clients.
Seems to be only minimal variations on a theme, most of all that homosexuality is dirty, unsafe, dangerous and undesirable.
To make someone believe it, they’d need to prove these results of such behavior along with exploiting that person’s most innocuous unpleasantness with being gay.
Lack of shyness, low watt personality to attract a compatible gay mate or awkward dating or sexual experience phase.
All these could be put under the heading of ‘struggling’ with homosexuality.
Indeed, by the broad criterion that is used, I struggled with heterosexuality.
The point being, so what if there is a struggle with homosexuality?
There are plenty of things one can struggle with that aren’t dangerous, urgent, contagious or fatal.
I guess I’m REAL tired of ex gay supporters (and others) making being gay sound like it is.
If it’s mind over matter for them, then the real answer is, THEY shouldn’t mind it so much.
It just occurred to me that the client mentioned in the Zahn piece has been seeing Cohen for THREE YEARS?!
Yikes….how long is that in ex gay time?
In heterosexual years….that’s ridiculous!
Regan, I’m unclear why you find three years a long time…I am not sure if you think ex-gay years are like dog years? 😉
I just don’t think there is any right or wrong answer about how long someone should be in therapy (ex-gay or not). Many people who pursue ex-gay therapy do so because they seem to have more underlying issues than the average gay person, so I’d imagine it wouldn’t be unusual to spend a lot of time in therapy, even if they don’t become straight, ultimately. I’d find it creepy being held once a week for three years, though.
I just would prefer if we didn’t stigmatize people who find (regular) therapy useful and might do it for a long period of time.
Christine said:
I just would prefer if we didn’t stigmatize people who find (regular) therapy useful and might do it for a long period of time.
I can’t speak for Regan though I doubt she meant to offend. Psychotherapy is a very personal process, guided and shaped much by the individuals involved. It takes however long it takes.
Then again, 3 years of paying to be cradled like a baby sounds like something that might be more suited to some counties in Nevada.
David Roberts
“I’m suspecting that the wives of ex gay men are themselves pretty insecure or women in serious denial.”
careful regan….this just WAY oversimplifies people like me….there may be wives like me who are like that…and…uh…they probably would not be the ones here telling their story….and yet….here I am….just as there are all those gay monogamous folks out there going against the stereotype of the promiscuous gay stereotype so prevalent amongst the “right” crowd…
I love you…I think you have some great thoughts and are very provocative in your thinking….but….this little blurb of yours goes directly against someone like me….
I am not in denial…I realize that my husband struggles with same sex attraction and will (most likely) continue to do so for the rest of our walking around, breathing, humanity on this earth. And I’m okay with that.
love you!!
grace
We were going to add this to Warrens’ blog, but thought we’d better share the load with XGW. Not that he needs an invite from us, but Warrens’ more than welcome to comment here too.(And congrats to Warren — looks like on this one post he’s served more individuals than McDonalds in this past 24 hours!)Reflecting… if one starts with:a premise that homosexuality is caused by a disconnection with the client’s own gender (primarily to be blamed on inadequate Dad etc),>and then thought the client had to “go back” and “recover” this childhood relationship – esp. by role-playing a child-parent dynamic – before they could “grow” or “be healed” into adult heterosexuality.and if the client was, say, a social dork or acting out in ways caused by childhood abuse etc… now, what “techniques” would be otherwise suggested? Leaving aside his own “issues”, Cohen is merely illustrating a consequence of the assumptions behind the entire exgay movement.What techniques are ones that won’t also create a long-term client who is thoroughly dependant on a paid therapist or a professional exgay for their sense of self (a situation fraught with potential for abuse etc. No, correction, a situation we think is abuse from the get go.)Also reflecting on words mentioned in another comment on Warrens’ blog – and without wishing to get into any issues of personal faith, we are not attempting to go there – but we see the looming figure of “Him” mentioned in a seemingly equally dependant child-father fashion within exgay circles. One who must be pleased. One who must be obeyed. Still distant, but right here, ready to reward and to punish. Everything in black and white.Again, without wishing to comment on issues of personal faith (and that’s twice we’ve said that now!), it would seem to be the same type of relationship – seeking succor from A Father in the hope this will “heal” oneself into heterosexuality. I’m also reminded of the very high rates of childhood abuse etc constantly mentioned by Exodus et al; rates well above that seen in both the general population and a representative sample of gay men and women. Let’s assume those rates are correct.Before even getting into any specific approaches used, perhaps Cohen has simply put on full display one of the primary reasons some/many are drawn to an exgay approach saturated by a highly patriarch-centred religion? A “reparative drive” to “heal” or “grasp” something other than homosexuality?And that alone raises questions about involvement of a therapist in RT – or call it what you will – because they are offering “comfort” and a “resolution” to something other than a “real” issue with sexuality. Before agreeing to launch off into RT, this needs to be explained to and understood by a client. Some key facts about the lives of gay men and women, some basic ground rules and the warning signs need to be firstly explored so that a confused and/or self-abusing client can make informed decisions.It also ties in, rather strongly, with previous times we’ve all attempted to discuss what a “legitimate role” of an exgay group might be for those with particular backgrounds – with many of those seeming to “need” to go through an attempt at change etc before being able to accept themselves for who they are.(And, we quicken to add, we’re not suggesting resolution of such issues is not a good thing. Thinking more along the lines that a therapist should be clearly and openly discussing with the client what is and is not being actually addressed. And that exgay groups need to fully acknowledge what it is they are really playing with for many members.)
David said:
I can’t speak for Regan though I doubt she meant to offend.
I’m totally sure she didn’t mean to offend. I like Regan very much (;o) and my comment was just to say…we need to be careful with what we say sometimes…we can go overboard sometimes trying to tear apart everything ex-gays do, and not realize that we could also be hurting “our own” in the process, and I just wanted us to be mindful that many ex-ex-gays read here and might very well have had a number of years of therapy in and out of the ex-gay movement to come to terms with being gay, ex-gay, and/or ex-ex-gay.
Three years in therapy might be too long for some people; yet it might be what others need. There’s just too much stigma as it is for getting help, let alone trying to put numbers on it or question the amount of years someone has received help (whether or not we personally think it is helpful).
grantdale said:
And that exgay groups need to fully acknowledge what it is they are really playing with for many members.
This is very true. Even the one ministry I’m aware of that is very non-Exodus in its approach I don’t think is as honest as they could be (and weren’t in my case, I feel). And most ministries don’t come anywhere close to that one, imo.
Grace — we’ll echo your words that you don’t seem either in denial or otherwise. As far as we’ve ever been following, you have been upfront and open about both the attractions your husband has and about your thoughts on that.She can speak for herself (and, happily, we know she can do that!) but I’m not sure Regan meant “you” though. It seems more addressed to those who would, say, either be unaware of or falsely present the attractions that their husband still has. And that’s not you.Actually, and hope we’re not prying (tell us to shut up if we are)… we have wondered why “exgay” is a happier label etc with yourself (or your husband) than simply saying “monogamous bisexual”?Knowing you do drop in from time to time, you’ve prob. also picked up that many of us here personally — as friends — know men and women who are equally honest about being bisexual in terms of attractions but who are also monogamous within and committed to an opposite-sex relationship.So we obviously 🙂 don’t have an “issue” with couples such as yourself, but the “exgay” is either red-flag or confusing. Or sometimes an attempt to deceive others about what attractions they still have etc.But, I guess, “bisexual” might be equally a red-flag or confusing in other circles you may mix 🙂 If you said that, some might assume your husband is “acting out” instead of merely stating what his attractions are.(Don’t know why they do that, but they do. It seems odd that if a married guy said he was straight people wouldn’t assume he was also an adulterer. But the moment he says he’s bisexual, people assume that he must be. Sigh, very annoying, no doubt.)
Maybe Cohen really, truly is ex-gay. I mean, did you see that godawful sofa and that rent-a-center decor??? No self-respecting gay man, no matter what his circumstances, would be caught dead in such surroundings.
Benjamin Clark wrote:
I have a psychotherapist who is studying touch therapy at an APA approved school for people who have been abused or experienced trauma.
Posted by: Benjamin Clark at May 24, 2006 03:55 PM
Can you provide more information about this APA approved school, I am interested in learning more.
Thank you
Hello Grace!
So good to have you weigh in. I did not mean to offend.
I think in your case, your husband isn’t making a commercial enterprise out of his situation.
He’s not ‘ex gay’ per se, isn’t that your situation?
He’s a gay man married to a woman. It can be said that if it’s not the opposite sex spouse who is in denial, but the gay person in the marriage who is.
My comment was not a slam on ALL spouses married to someone gay.
I probably should have been more specific about the spouses of those who work to attract other gay people into the ex gay club.
I have nothing but the utmost of respect for you and brought you up in conversation with my roommate.
He is young, only 26. He has a powerful and well known activist father.
He went through the drill of having girlfriends he was poised to marry and by all intents and purposes would have gone through with it. His father’s public life made the pressure of that expectation enormous.
He pulled himself back from that edge and is living fully and openly as the gay person he is.
No harm, no foul.
But it must be noted that the insecurities that gay people develop, can attract likewise when it comes to spouses. That’s the only thing I’m saying.
Commercial ex gays however, have a lot they have to sustain. Their public face carries more pressure to make their situation look good.
Can’t be easy.
From the beginning I have appreciated the experience you bring to this forum. If we were a group that met in person, I would hug you.
grace at May 24, 2006 11:04 PM
Thank you for being here, grace. At times it is easy to forget to put faces to “them” and to assume characteristics about ex-gays or the women who marry them. You help center my thinking.
Earlier, I believe someone suggested your husband was bisexual. I’m not completely certain, but I seem to recall that your husband is not attracted to women…. other than you. (forgive me if i’ve confused you with someone else).
In either case, you remind me of a woman I knew several years ago. She was beautiful and many men noticed her.
She had been married twice before (or maybe it was three times) and had a daughter. The men she had been married to were all attractive men, successful, and socially poised. And they also all treated her like crap.
Then she met a man that most folks would consider a loser – he was not handsome, wore ugly clunky glasses, had a bad haircut, and walked and talked like a dork. But he also had a loving heart, worshiped the ground she walked on, and treated her daughter like a princess.
When she married him, some folks thought she was “settling” for this guy, but I thought that she was making a smart decision. She was selecting a man who had exactly the qualities that she was looking for – and had not found in other men.
Grace, I will admit that it is tempting for me to think that you “settled” for a gay man who may never see you as a woman in exactly the same way that a more heterosexual man might. But I suspect that this view would be wrong; I suspect that your husband had qualities that you did not see in other men and that participating in his struggles with his sexuality is a small price to pay for getting a man with those qualities.
Please forgive me if I’m being presumptuous. And, again, thanks for helping me keep perspective.
For the record, that was the funniest video I have seen on the internet. Ever.
OMG! That was perhaps the most seriously disturbing bunch of quackery I’ve ever seen. People pay good money for this? WOW!
If he’s unlicensed, how can he practice. Can’t or shouldn’t the state he practices in have some sort of oversight?
j.
I really feel bad for his clients. They aren’t going to be any happiers, especially since he hasn’t taught them how to court, apparently.
Rob’s email:
“HI
I also have some interest in music. I am taking beginning piano and started voice lessons, but i had to stop the voice lessons because my teacher gave birth. Hopefully, I will start back up again soon. I am planning to give her a call next month. As for my musical tastes, i like contemporary christian music as well as some classical, rock, and even some country. but my favorite is christian music.”
He sounds like a catch.
Experts Split Over ‘Bizarre’ Sexual Orientation Therapy Techniques By Jim BrownAgapePressJune 20, 2006Excerpts:
And…
And…
Autumn,
Thanks. I’ve just posted a thread on this.