Queer Day comments on ABC’s “The View”:
On “The View,” the often annoying morning talk show, the women decided to take a closer look at a program to “straighten out gay teens,” speaking with a formerly gay man who had gone straight. You can read the transcript and expand your annoyance with all four of them to greater and lesser degrees – particularly Star Jones, pictured, and her sex-negative Views like “There’s a consequence to good clean fun.” The View did not present any rebuttal, no pro-gay speaker, no counterpoint to the lies and false statistics their guests provided.
I invite readers (or co-bloggers) to analyze the transcript and address any inaccuracies or false statistics.
Let’s start with the surreal:Unreasonable expectations, built in failure mode, and a heavy dose of re-framing in an information vaccum that has lead to a completely false view about gay men and their relationships:
Of course, one wonders how a 24 year old exgay who’s been undergoing this exgaying for 4 years, could possibly have expected to form a long-term relationship in his teens (instead of dating, like his peers). I’d better tell my straight friends who haven’t married at 20 that they are doomed to never marry. Ever. Never. No nuptuals for You!And I loved this part…
A small piece of it??? What a tosser.Frankly, I’d have preferred someone say to Mike — “You call yourself exgay. People would think you’ve changed from a homosexual to a heterosexual. But you’re not a heterosexual, are you? I’ve seen your adverts and your press releases, and aren’t you at Exodus being misleading, Scott?”
Oops, did it again.Although based on the obvious, “tosser” is not an obscene term in Australia. You can use the word in front of your mother — it means, in this context, someone who is so self-absorbed that they don’t recognise other’s know that they are lying or inventing the facts.(Hence the derivation from the obvious. Heck why am I being so shy??? I’m talking masturbatory behaviour. It’s not like I’m exgay and have to use “M12” codewords to avoid precipitating a fall in the group session!)
The problem with the piece is that they didn’t trot out any easily debunked statistics, they pushed some vague opinions that will be snapped up by those who want to believe the gay “lifestyle” is dirty and that gays can go straight.
They seemed very confused as to what their point was. They started off at the beginning saying that Exodus had caused tens of thousands of people become 100% heterosexual, yet by the end they seemed to move closer to claiming it wasn’t about being straight, it was about resisting temptation. And this “youth” (a 24 year old) certainly was not 100% straight, if he was not even attracted to any women.
Meredith did try to get a few pointed remarks in. Maybe in some way it was better they weren’t overly hostile and let these guys hem and haw, but this was just unnecessary to have them on the show. It makes me wonder who at ABC has this anger towards gays. First that horrible Matthew Shepherd piece on 20/20, then running a Focus on the Family ad in primetime, and now this. I don’t want to imagine what is next.
RE: grantdale
What I also find funny is his view that there are no long term relationships if one is gay; interesting; I have a MSN messenger full of gay guys trying to look for guys just like that; people who want long term, monogomous relationships – heck, throw me into the same boat as well.
Regarding his teens; lets be completely honest here; how many teens actually had a RELATIONSHIP in their teens? in my year alone, 30 boys, at a single sex school, there were THREE in relationships; the rest were single. In my brothers year (18 this year), there were only 5 with girlfriends, and SHOCK HORROR! most were actually virgins!
I never dated when I was a teen; I had a close ‘friend’ who I hung out with, and did stuff with, but I never had a ‘boyfriend’ relationship. So why does Scott or Mike think that the status quo is that every heterosexual is in a relationship?
kaiwai at August 4, 2005 06:18 AM
What I also find funny is his view that there are no long term relationships if one is gay; interesting; I have a MSN messenger full of gay guys trying to look for guys just like that; people who want long term, monogomous relationships – heck, throw me into the same boat as well.
I’m not sure what “monogamous” has to do with this (more later), but I’ll just let you know that I have had a LTR with the same guy for 27 years. It hasn’t been easy. We got together when I was 29 and he 26. Before then I was quite promiscuous, and so was he. But after a while it gets to be a bit boring. So people want to settle down. That’s the long and the short of it.
Regarding monogamy, were it not for the health situation (HIV/AIDS) I wouldn’t care whether my partner “tricked out” every once in a while. But we do not want to import the “love bug” into our little community (him and me), so we don’t trick out. It’s as simple as that.
What I have found ironic is that chat rooms, such as those on AOL or gay.com, appear to exist merely as “hook-up joints,” for gay males who want to trick out on their partners, or for straight males who want to be serviced (i.e. fellated) by gay males. It’s very strange, after you decypher the lingo. I’ve monitored the gay.com boston chat room every once in a while, and sometimes a conversation breaks out, but it’s become very rare.
On the subject of the post, isn’t Star Jones the failed lawyer who got herself another gig on TV talk shows?
I’d pay as much attention to her on much of anything as I’d pay attention to a chipmunk digging in our back yard.
I invite readers (or co-bloggers) to analyze the transcript and address any inaccuracies or false statistics.
Why not just dismiss it out of hand and demand that they prove their conclusions?
Well, Star Jones has been called homophobic in the past (https://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/152274p-134071c.html) I heard further reasons for her possible homophobic attitude but they are only rumors. Maybe I’ll write to the View and they can have my husband and me on to talk about our wedding. Afterall, we did use the same wedding website as Star and her husband.
I agree with the points here. I’d like to point out to both of these Exodus folks that I am 26 and in a 6.5 year relationship that began while I was in the closet.
Of course, if you are trying to be ex-gay, a relationship probably isn’t going to happen. If you are trying to find a relationship, it certainly can.
On the subject of the post, isn’t Star Jones the failed lawyer who got herself another gig on TV talk shows?
More importantly, she is the woman who is famously married to an allegedly straight man who is believed to have gone through an “ex-gay” program. Nevertheless, he was spotted at a very gay Halloween party, wearing a relatively skimpy costume, just before their wedding and is fairly flamboyant and effeminate in his demeanor. IIRC, Star and Al (sometimes referred to as “Big Gay Al” in gay gossip columns) have not denied the rumors of his past same-sex flings, but have not confirmed them either.
Am I missing something? IIRC, Star Jones was a rather heavy-set woman when I first heard of her on–I believe it was–CourtTV. Is she doing an Oprah?
Just wondering. No flames, please.
Media, more specifically the broadcasting business, television more than radio, is full of gay people often in long term relationships. Sometimes they’re not real open about them. I’m 26 years with a man I met when we worked together in radio.
I wonder how many eyes were rolling on The View set when those lies were being told. I doubt the teller knew they were lies, though he might not want to really do his own research for fear of what he’d find.
If that’s the case, its really sad that ignorance is put on the air, from a place where enlightenment was all around him.
kaiwai:
“So why does Scott or Mike think that the status quo is that every heterosexual is in a relationship?”
I suspect they think this because that’s the ideal. (I should say “idol”) This has been my experience with conservative Christians. They worship the institution of marriage and have a warped sense of what marriage is and the function it has played in history. Since marriage is so great and so holy and wonderful, that must mean that everyone is either married or in a relationship careening towards marriage or pining to be one or the other. The peer pressure in the Christian subculture to get married and have babies is intense. Deep down these people think there is something wrong with anyone who isn’t married or in a relationship.
Missed this
kaiwai:
“So why does Scott or Mike think that the status quo is that every heterosexual is in a relationship?”
I do believe that you’re overstating the matter. There is tremendous social pressure to “pair up” I suspect that most of the social pressure has been to pair up in opposite sex couples. At least publicly. Does that mean that, for example, the men in opposiite sex couples would not engage in same-sex sex, on the sly? Not by a long shot.
But that doesn’t inhibit some of us from pairing up in same sex couples. Publicly. Most if not all of the merchants that we deal with both in our house in Boston and in our house Munich would have to be idiots if they did not know that we are partners. Do they care? Apparently not. We don’t “do it in the road” (to reference the Beatles), but we don’t hide it either.
We just celebrated our 13 year anniversary, and it is monogamous. All the gay couples we know (gay males and lesbian) are in longterm, stable releationships (one over 30 years). Of course, all of us are pretty quiet. We don’t go to gay pride festivals and have major parties or anything like that (not that there is anything wrong with that).
The straight couples we know are not very stable. Many divorces (one wife ran off with her psychologist). One couple I know are swingers and go to these strange swinger parties. The gay couples we know have stronger, more stable relationships than the straight couples. I don’t think though this has to do with sexuality itself per se. I do think that since many of us have had to fight for any rights we have as couples have made us stronger. Most of the straight couples we know take their relationships for granted.
I am really happy that straight people no longer ask me if I am still with my spouse. I guess people got used to the relationship. There was always an assumption that somehow we would split up simply because we are gay.
There was always an assumption that somehow we would split up simply because we are gay
Just to let you know, I have never felt that assumption. And, although we do have some gay couples, most of the neighbors in our neighborhood are–staight.
The REALLY funny thing here: everyone in New York who knows Star Jone’s husband says he is gay. The man had his bachelor party at a gay bar according to Andy Humm on Gay USA! So, she may know more about this “ex gay” thing than we all think.
I commend these people from Exodus are very courageous considering how standing up for any type of morality is seen as narrow-minded and bigoted. Second, I’ve known too many people in gay and lesbian community who have ‘become’ heterosexual and go on to marry or have LTR with someone of the opposite gender (even without reparative therapy, no less!) Finally, for people who think applying morality or consequence-based thinking to the area of sexuality makes them ‘sex-negative’ why do gay communities spend millions of dollars telling the gay brethern to use condoms? The fact is you don’t like straight people commenting your sexual practices unless they agree with your philosophical stand point. Sad.
Wil,
Your post consists entirely of strawman arguments and trolling.
1. Exodus is not criticized as “narrow-minded and bigoted” for standing up for morality. Exodus does not stand up for morality or consequence-based morality — in fact, Exodus refuses to confront the consequences of its own unethical behavior. What Exodus does stand for — and what it is criticized for — are discrimination, ostracism, and false accusations (prejudices) about the wildly different lives, viewpoints, histories, behaviors, and biology of same-sex-attracted individuals. Exodus exercises precisely the sort of identity politics and labeling that it pretends to condemn.
2. You fail to document a single specific individual who has become heterosexual, and you yourself remain conveniently anonymous. However, you may be right that no one needs reparative therapy in order to change their sexual behavior and to become sexually responsible (as many same-sex-attracted people are). That’s a key reason why expensive reparative therapy programs are seen as scams and quackery.
3. To read the writings of gay authors who (unlike Exodus) favor moral norms and consequence-based morality, visit the Independent Gay Forum or for that matter any number of gay Christian, gay Jewish, and gay Republican web sites.
Wil, you have consistently exhibited the traits not of constructive discussion, but of unsubstantiated accusation, strawmanning and trolling.
Such immoral behavior is unwelcome here, and therefore so are you. Goodbye.
I think ABC is at the core liberal but I think they are pandering to the religious right to try to balance the religious right’s view of the network. Consider they have so many top rated liberal shows in ABC most of which are sexy and scandalous. Desperate Housewives, Boston Legal, and Grey’s Anatomy come to mind. All are steamy and have controversial storylines. As for the Extreme Makeover, there are some gay hosts on that show. I wonder how that is gonna turn out with the Focus on the Family episode. LOL
For the morning show, the View, I was surprised they invited such people in. Considering Exodus’s extreme failutes on straight conversion. Even its own founders left the organization and fell in love with each other. LOL Well, I know Barbara Walters and Meredith and Joy are definitely NOT anti-gay. They are quite liberal in fact but it must have been the producers of the show that are trying to capture a conservative audience. Frankly, Im surprised Barbara didn’t challenge those freaks more strongly. I suspect her absence from the 2020 episode of Matthew Shepard’s killers was on purpose. Even John Stossel was absent. Only that new bitchy host was there. Well, now they had to bring back Barbara in many episodes to salvage 2020’s ratings even though Barbara has officially retired from that show. LOL
The straight couples we know are not very stable.
Yeah – that’s our experience too. We’re in our late 40’s in a long-term relationship. Our straight married friends are either getting out of their marriages or they stay together but hate each other. We never expected long-term stability. Three cheers for low expectations!