Ex-Gay Watch is developing both an FAQ and a priority list for future projects.
So I turn to you, our readers:
What questions are worth including in an FAQ about this site, and about the exgay movement?
What exgay and antigay claims are most worth refuting, and not well-addressed by other sites?
Discuss. 🙂
I have two projects underway,As with the revisit of the “20 years off your life” page, Iam finishinga page that examines — from first principles — what sort of “change rate” we could anticipate seeing from exgay ministries etc. This is a mathematical modelling against which one could, as example, overlay a claim made by someone. It intends to predict what the actual outcome would be.a critical review of some of the very sloppy accounting used in a few “peer reviewed studies, but only if you mean my peers at NARTH”. As their in-house jobs seem to be getting more and more quote value these days, I thought it would be good to show when they do not hold up to scrutiny. Simply narrowing down all the possible targets is half the effort — I’m spoilt for choice.When done, they’ll be loaded onto our site and the links placed in at XGW.
Oh, jeepers. I didn’t add my starting paragraph.I meant to start with: having one central place to go find where the most notorious claims originate would be a great resource for many. A few topical headings, and no commentary on that particular XGW page — just make it the jump off point.There is a heap of “stuff” already collected in here, but finding it can be a chore. So second idea to boost the “central library” is a more powerful internal search engine.
I think an annotated listing of links that define who the players are along with the link would be very helpful. It seems that the more a site claims it wants to reveal the “truth” so that someone confused can make up their mind, the fewer links it has to sites that disagree with its viewpoint.
Also, a section–you might call it I Don’t Exist–where there’s a enumeration of all the gay-change ministries and ex-gay groups that are no longer in existance because their founders had the intellectual honesty and moral decency to give up when they saw the real fruits of their labors.
Exodus has its own little graveyard, populated with failed ministries they once praised.
“I don’t Exist”, yes, that’s an excellent idea.
Questions that would spring to my mind include:
How can all these ‘ministries’ exist if they don’t work?
Why should I believe a bunch of disgruntled homos over all these Dr’s and Phd’s? (Grantdale’s suggestion of picking at NARTH studies would be a good idea.)
What are the different/most common kinds and methods of reperative/conversion/reorientation/ex-gay therapy, and are some more effective than others? (I honestly don’t know the answer to this. But I did read somewhere that ‘respectable’ ex-gays distanced themselves from the aversion shock therapy others used.)
You keep saying there’s no ex-gays, but how many ex-ex-gays are there? (Media list v. good idea. I’d sign up to it but I’m a mostly straight girl who’s never met an ex-gay except online.)
Keep up the good work.
One problem that seems to keep coming up is that by and large gay spokesman have very little information about the exgay topic. Wayne Besen is the exception. And he has had to devote years to learning this works. The universe of exgays, small as it may be, is an amazingly complex one.
One thing that does seem to limit understanding is that most gay spokespeople do not seem particularly interested in or knowlegable about religion. And it appears that exgays can not be seprated from their particular religious milieu.
AFAICT, the single largest body of information on exgays is at Bridges Across. BA is devoted to communication and understanding. It is a private forum and the information there is not for disemination. However, individuals who have posted there can be approached for advice and guidance on various topics.
What seems to be needed here at XGW is an overview of the whole exgay phenomena. Which is nowhere near as easy as it sounds. A simple census of ministries, showing which have come and gone and which continue on is very difficult. Some come and go out in flames. Others continue on with totally changed personnel. And some keep changing their names. Others relocate. Just trying to keep this all in order is hard to do.
Then there is the issue of money. RAJ and others here have pointed to this as a motif. But I don’t see that. AFAICT in the last few years some has flowed into Exodus National, but not all that much. Most of the local ministries are small, all volunteer groups. Or appear to be so. The therapists also seem to be very much a separate stream from the religious groups. The connection here looks like cross referrels.
Anyway, my thought is that step one would be to do a census of what can be known about exgay ministries. And try to go back in time with it. Check them out locally. See who is involved, how credible the stories are, what their resources and scope is. That would be just for a start.
Beyond that, one thing to keep in mind. Most of the exgays I am aware of are simply not political. They have no real knowlege of nor interest in politics. And regard the topic as something that does not involve them. There are a few exgays who are political, but they are a small part of the whole. So, this looks like a big project.
Something that may help (because it helped me when it was discussed here not so long ago) is something about publishing in vanity presses, then using those publications as references for other publications, ad infinitum. That seems to me the biggest stumbling block to discussing the issues here honestly.
Also, something covering the major logical fallacies would be useful, too.
Then there is the issue of money. RAJ and others here have pointed to this as a motive. But I don’t see that.
I apologize if I have been incomplete. There have been articles over at the Independent Gay Forum https://www.indegayforum.org that have noted that one reason that conservative “christian” operations beat on the anti-gay issue is that it is helpful in their fund-raising. Far in excess of the amount of money that would be expected if the number of gay people is as low as they claim.
BTW, it’s “motive” not “motif.” We’re not doing theater here 😉
Actually, I was saying that this was a ‘motif’ of your thoughts, not a ‘motive’, which word would not work.
While gay issues raise a lot of money for the religious loons, it looks as if almost none of it gets to the exgays. Which since the claim is that exgay stuff works seems out of line. Why raise money for something you are not willing to fund? It appears the exgays are not particularly trusted by the religious right. Certainly not with the money their existence raises. That was my point.
[Message deleted by XGW moderator. Instead of spamming this site with unexplained links to other sites, Frank, please feel free to discuss your prejudices here.]