Received from Exodus International via e-mail just now:
Scott Davis, director of Exodus Youth, is scheduled to appear on ABC’s daytime talk show, The View, on Monday, August 1. Exodus says Davis will be joined by Mike Ensley, a “graduate” of an Exodus program located in Southern California.
Exodus does not say whether any opposing viewpoints will be aired. The program’s web site does not show the schedule for August 1 yet.
The View is a silly show, but “director of Exodus Youth”? Pardon my hackles rising, but it makes me wonder if these people aren’t verging on pedophiles.
That was pretty creepy propaganda. I was shocked by how blatant they were right from the start, with the promo that said “STRAIGHTENING OUT GAY TEENS”. Then they let this one-sided view of homosexuality continue on and on, telling gay teenagers that they should try to go straight even if they are happy and if everyone accepts them. And the reward is being celibate for years and years as you desperately try to convince yourself that you can love a woman physically.
I can’t say I’m surprised that ABC has continued to push anti-gay messages, but I’m still disgusted. This show reaches many mothers and grandmothers. How will they react now when their son or daughter or grandchild says “I think I’m gay” or “I’m gay”? Will they send them to some place like Love in Action?
One item of interest from this ditzy fluffy “interview”:
A transcript is here: http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2005/08/the_view_gals_j_1.html#more
Scott Davis said “Exodus has been around for 30 years, we have 125 ministries in North America, we’ve seen tens of thousands of people leave homosexuality, and not just change their behavior but also change their identity, their self perception, and to see their attractions change from where they were 100% homosexuals to where they are 100% heterosexual”
Really, Scott?
Who?? Certainly not Mike Ensly (yet another ex-gay on the payroll)
I’m sure I’m mistaken and there will be someone to correct me, but the only person that comes to mind who claimed that his attractions changed from 100% homosexual to 100% heterosexual was John Paulk. And well we all know how well that ended.
Just as a quick check on one “resource”:For kids with gay parents, Exodus directs them to six “statements and research”.One is by Paul Camerom. Four reference Paul Cameron by name. One mentions the Medical Institute for Sexual Health, which uses Paul Cameron.And this is before we’ve looked into any of the other vipers that Exodus Youth uses for “the real truth”. Exodus appear even less concerned about accuracy when addressing youths than they do when addressing adults.And the site advertises LIA/R — “Check out Refuge, a 2wk summer out-patient program…”. Sounds like a summer camp instead of what it really is but, odd, I also thought LIA/R wasn’t meant to claiming they were a therapy…
grantdale
yet again the anti/ex-gay Exodus prefers “The Truth” to, well, truth.
I think it’s about time that the AMA, the APA, the other APA, etc. issue a joint statement that anyone who uses Cameron’s findings as a source are by definition fraudulent and disreputable.
It goes beyond Cameron being deliberately deceptive and dishonest. If you quote a “finding” knowing that it isn’t based on anything but quackery, that makes you a fraud as well.
As a Christian, I am sick to death of religious groups thinking that they can spin, deceive, shade the truth, suggest, make unsupported claims, and downright lie and still somehow think that it’s all OK.
Take note, DL, Warren, Peter, etc.:
If you deceive you’re a liar.
If you spin facts, you’re a liar.
If you repeat “findings” that can’t be substantiated, you’re a liar.
If you make statements knowing that the people who hear it will misunderstand you, you’re a liar.
If you tell “your side of the story”, you’re a liar.
If you make claims, or repeat claims, about success rates and never allow for verification, you’re a liar.
If you testify before some governmental body and leave them believing things that are not true, you are a liar.
If you change the meaning of words like “change” or “gay” or “homosexuality” to be something other than what people who hear you understand them to be, you’re a liar.
And regardless of what you think the Bible may say about homosexuality, it is plainly unabiguously abundantly clear what God feels about liars.
(ok… enough for my rant)
There are some major problems with that interview. The exgay kid says that he basically was as out as possible, as “into it” as he could be; however, he was 15 at the time. How can you be as “into it” at 15 when you aren’t old enough to even have freedom to do that? When I was 16, I called the Gay and Lesbian Center near me and was told they could not even counsel me until I was 18. I don’t buy it.
He also says that he had a relationship 4 years before, but now his heterosexuality is only now emerging in the process? I am confused because it sounded like his parents made him do the exgay counseling when they found out, but now this is happening? His comments seemed very confused and awkward. And this is the best the exgay ministry can pull out for a network show?
That’s OK Timothy. Feel better now :-)And yes, agree, but I’m not sure what more the professional bodies can do. They have either booted Camoron or issued statements condemning his behaviour/”studies” years ago. He continues.The real issue is that anti-gay groups, such as Exodus, continue to hawk Cameron’s swill EVEN after he has had the professional equivalent of being hanged, drawn and quartered. Cameron already has his (tainted) reputation — one wonders why Exodus doesn’t care that they associate with him?
The real issue is that anti-gay groups, such as Exodus, continue to hawk Cameron’s swill EVEN after he has had the professional equivalent of being hanged, drawn and quartered. Cameron already has his (tainted) reputation — one wonders why Exodus doesn’t care that they associate with him?
For what it’s worth, what I think is a bigger issue is the fact that the journalists who cover these people rarely do even the most basic of research on what science has to say about gay people when covering gay issues, allowing groups like Exodus to spout Cameron statistics left and right without ever questioning their validity or even asking what the source is. Just ONCE, I’d like to see a journalist challenge these people who use Cameron’s “research” instead of letting them get away with continuing to spread his lies for years after they’ve been refuted by the mainstream scientific community.
Grantdale,
Re: one wonders why Exodus doesn’t care that they associate with him?
The answer is simple — they get to say “Researchers say…”, complete with a scholarly-looking footnote, and the average reader won’t know the difference.
I have to say that it is pretty impressive how much impact one man can have, despite the decisive discrediting and constant howls. According to the Boston Globe, he has only one employee (and the article is unclear as to whether he is that employee). He has really hit on a winning strategy as judged by the impact he has.
So I guess if just one guy can do all of this, who among us is able to work full time to do the same thing for our side? (That’s a razer-sharp jab at GLAAD – useless idiots!)
Mike and Scott did a great job. I am not surprised by a lot of the harsh comments towards exodus and mike (the ex-gay). I just want to understand where you all come up with the idea that exodus is anti-gay!? Anyone who has been to an exodus conference or knows anything about exodus will tell you they are the exact opposite. Just take half a second to think about it. Lets take…. The Exodus conference: 1000 homosexuals/ex-homosexuals meeting for a week of worshiping in a christian setting. I dont know many anti-gay programs that invite homosexuals to join in what is simply worshiping God and constant fellowship with one another. Exodus is an awesome program that doesnt demand any homosexuals attention that doesnt demand theirs. And I cant understand how anyone could feel like ABC brought mike and scott on as if to support them. They were ripping on both of them right off the bat. What show were some of you watching?
I Believe whole heartedly in the ministry of Exodus. I personally know Mike (the guy who appeared on the show) and have seen a change in him. I don’t care if you have seen him and bash their ministry, trying to pick apart everything they do in a sad attempt to make yourselves feel better.
I don’t believe in gay love and relationship anymore. It’s a deceit to take advantage of young man and wear them out. It should be stopped and changed. I was deeply into homosexuality and realized that there was no true love. I felt miserable by all the gay lifestyle which is shallow. Please there are many people that got changed by EXODUS. I still struggle because of my flesh but God give me power to overcome it. We are sinners who do awful things, lies and kills. Look around us it’s evident only God’s love can restore us and keep in the right way. We are sinful so we are tend to walk in a wrong way, there are several cases of ex-gay going back to gay life style but it doesn’t mean exodus is failing. I hope you can change.
I’m glad you’ve found the peace that comes from no longer wearing young men out. There’s no need to come here and boast of your stamina, tho.
“I felt miserable by all the gay lifestyle which is shallow.”
I’m sorry that was the case for you, and I’m glad that you are no longer living in a way that was miserable for you.
My “gay lifestyle” is not very shallow, and quite fulfilling. I work, I eat, I play, I sleep, I pay my bills, play with my cats, and I see my friends. I don’t drink or smoke or do drugs. I don’t have a partner and don’t date and definitely don’t take advantage of people and wear them out. The “gay lifestyle” is whatever you make it, imo.
[ISay]ChangeIsPossibleI suggest that it is you that is the abusive, the unloving and the shallow; rather than gay men or women or this “gay lifestyle” as such. Claiming that anyone can “change” (into what you don’t say) is simply your latest incarnation.We’ve been together 14 years and none of your life is anything like our own life together or anything like the hundreds of couples that we have personally met over the years.While we always encourage people to seek happiness in their lives, we have no respect for someone like you who seeks their happiness by preying on others and inventing falsehoods about the contented domestic lives of millions of gay men and lesbians.At least we agree on one thing: I too hope you will change.
[Anonymous antigay troll banned, and remark deleted by the moderator.
Antigay viewpoints are welcome at XGW, but trolling is not. Antigay comments are generally required to be on-topic, civil, factual, and traceable to a real person. Exceptions to this guideline may be made at the moderator’s discretion.]
To Jordan, Jeb, etc.,
We don’t object to Exodus and their fellowship and attempts to bring contentment to unhappy people. If they improve your life, more power to them.
We do, however, object to some of what they do:
When Alan Chambers campaigns and lobbies politicians to eliminate my rights or be certain that the government does not treat me equally, that is evil. It is against all the teachings of Christ and against common humanity and, yes, we will fight that and Exodus which gives him the aura of authority.
Second, when Exodus lies to participants and makes promises that it cannot deliver, we have a moral obligation to stand for truth. For example, Bayer’s aspirin is a fine product and can take away your headache and sometimes help with heart trouble. But if Bayer suddenly claimed that aspirin would heal your heart and eliminate the need for by-pass surgery, it would be important to stand against the claim. Exodus makes claims that statistically are untrue. They redefine words to mean other than what the participants coming in understand them to mean. And that is wrong.
Most of gay men lied to me and used me and throw me away like a trash and gave me an awful STDs. I’ve never met a nice kind not exploiting gay men. Doesn’t this prove that there is something wrong with gay life. I want to seek help from Exodus and run away from all the lying superficial gays.
Daivd, what you say simply “proves” that there is something unhealthy with the way in which you choose to meet and relate with people. And you’re further hurting yourself by blaming other people — especially broad and diverse categories of people — for your own dangerous choices of behavior.
Sex-based clubs are where people go to use and be used. If you want healthy friendships, as most people do, then I encourage you to skip the singles bars and online sex rooms. There are healthy, nonsexual venues for friendship.
And if you don’t want STDs, as most people do, then don’t have sex outside of a monogamous relationship — and especially don’t have sex without a condom.
I would love for Exodus to assist people in moderating their sexual behavior and striving toward celibacy. But sadly, Exodus doesn’t do that anymore. They politicize faith and sexuality, they pressure men into marriage, and they declare the acknowledgment of same-sex attraction — not the behavior — to be a mortal sin.
I believe that Exodus has betrayed the wellbeing of exgays in pursuit of political agendas. So non-exgay groups such as XGW must step up and do the work that Exodus should have been doing.
If you have any suggestions on how we can help you or others struggling with sexual compulsions, please let us know.
Moderator Action: commenter posing as Exodus and has posted here before under a different name and different contact info – all bogus.
David Roberts
Posted by: Exodus at October 28, 2006 10:41 AM
Pretending to be someone you’re not makes baby Jesus cry.
Yeah sure Exodus helps the gay community, by trying to criminalize our love, by making sure no law keeps us from getting unjustly fired from our jobs or evicted from our homes, by opposing efforts to stop anti-gay bullying in schools, and by doing everything they can think of to punish us for trying to find happiness with the same sex.
Yeah, gotta love Exodus for that.
Randi, please try to keep the religious sarcasm down a bit. It wasn’t necessary.
Sorry David, I’ll be more careful.
Ms. Erzen during her book tour has consistently commented on the fact that many of the men in the Ex-gay program that she studied did not have much exposure to other gay men prior to the program. She also talked about the amount of sexual activity that occurred in the program and that for some participants, it was their first opportunity to physically explore their sexuality.
Her comments about this aspect of the participants experience in the program should be required reading for any parent of a gay teen who was planning to send their kid to an ex-gay program. It would certainly make most parents think twice about turning their kids over to these groups.