FOTF’s next Love Won Out ex-gay roadshow is being held in Seattle on the 25th of June. Focus hasn’t posted a schedule online yet but it’s known that :
To address the topic of same-sex marriage and parenting, Focus on the Family Vice President and Psychologist-in-Residence Dr. Bill Maier will present “Straight Thinking on Gay Marriage.”(*)
Odd, since Love Won Out is about one’s free will to reject or embrace their sexuality. As we know, groups like Focus keep ex-gays around as cover to promote blanket discrimination against happy healthy gay families. The addition of a speech on gay marriage is odd since I’m assuming those attending have no interest living as gay people. Too bad they’re going to be devoting time to attacking those who make the choice to embrace their sexuality. The veil of deception at Focus grows thinner.
Maybe you think they shouldn’t say anything and just let all the homosexuals burn for infinity! The Bible talks about fornicators and aduterers not inheriting the Kingdom of God! Is that love to let people burn in hell for infitity if the Bible is true?
Excuse me, but any learned discussion of what the bible says about homosexuality has long ago ruled out the passage in Corinthians that you are referring to. Read up and read it again! Anyway, was does fornication have to do with a loving, committed same-sex relationship?
Shame on you for picking at the precieved speck in another’s eye and failing to recognize and deal with the log in your own.
God will not be glorified on this issue until we can all engage in a respectful discussion of homosexuality.
Anonymous,
Interesting point, and a common one at that. If you really are interested in a response, mine would be this:
No, it is not love to let someone burn in hell for eternity, but it is *justice* and that’s all the Bible claims it to be. The Bible does not contradict itself in this area. It never says that God is only love (even though he is that as well). God is also just, like a good king would be – a compassionate king. A bad king would just say, “anyone who breaks the law will be put to death immediately for their crime!” while a good king would say, “anyone who breaks the law will be put to death immediately… unless the crime which they committed is paid for.”
This is where Jesus came in. He lived a perfect life and then died at the hands of us, humans, his creation. This death was enough to pay for ANY sin committed in the world. If someone like you or I sins, we are going to hell… unless, we access Jesus’ death as payment for that sin. This means that we have to take responsibility for the sin first, then accept that payment. At this point, we’re not going to hell! Simple as that. God is a loving God, that’s why he gave us that option! Despite that fact that it would be unjust to just let anyone break the law and then just skip hell, he gave us an out, at his own expense.
Some people see God as just sitting there while people go about their lives ignoring him and eventually going to hell. I hope this clears a few things up as it is not the truth at all.
Thanks!
This has been touched on before here. If one’s belief is that a person risks eternal damnation for this or that, it could certainly be considered compassion to want them to change. Unfortunately, somewhere in the friction of these two sides comes hatred and an attempt to force such change through rule of law. Both sides need to take some responsibility for the current state of affairs in this area.
For the Christian, the real tragedy of sin is that it separates one from God.
David
Ryan,
One correction. Accepting Jesus’ sacrifice is more than saying “Jesus forgive me” and going on your way.
To “accept Jesus” one must also accept his commandments. He had two and they are both very difficult to live by: 1) love God, and 2) love your neighbor as yourself.
You must treat your neighbor the way YOU want to be treated – not the way “I’d want you treat me IF I WERE HIM” as I’ve heard some rather nasty spirited people say. If one doesn’t do that, he hasn’t “accepted” Jesus. Instead he’s relying on some magic phrase. He’s expecting that his saying “Jesus save me” and belonging to a religious community will ensure eternal goodies.
Christ is quite clear about the difference. For example Matthew, the 25th chapter, verses 31 through 46.
Well said!
Please remember though, that is the “old law.”
The entire reason Jesus came was because God knew that we are imperfect and that we would not be able to follow every law out in place. Since the spiritual penalty for not following a law – AKA: “sin” – is eternal death, NO ONE was able to avoid this penalty. No even one. Until Jesus came along, and bridged that gap on our behalf.
God does still desires us to follow the laws, certainly, but it is not a prerequisite of salvation… by no means. See Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Furthermore, about your point, Romans 6:1-2 says:
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
In other words, the moment we accept Jesus’ death as payment for our sins, the spiritual part of us who is a sinner by nature literally DIES, but thanks to the salvation of Christ, the rest of our spirit lives on… that is what it means to “die to sin.” This means that our spiritual nature now, though physically sinful still, is pure. Our sinful nature has been forgiven. We do not have the ability to earn or achieve salvation by keeping commandments, etc. This is supported by the previous verse I referenced (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Ultimately, yes, if you are truly in Christ and Christ is in you, your nature will keep the laws, but not perfectly. We are, after all, still humans… and if we were able to keep these laws, there would have been no need for Christ Jesus, only stricter standards on earth for us. That would not work.
Interesting resource about this very topic:
Can We Go On Sinning? by by Ray C. Stedman
I don’t know the guy nor have I read the entire article so please don’t flame me if it’s not completely accurate. It’s just an interesting read from what I’ve gotten through so far.