PFOX publicly declares that it favors tolerance for gays and exgays.
But PFOX’s own Yahoo-based e-mail discussion and “support” list, advertised on the front page of its web page, tells a different story:
In dozens of messages every month, several parents and peers of gays vent their anger at their gay relatives and friends, and claw for ways to make virtues out of discrimination, prejudice, and hatred of all things that they deem “liberal.” PFOX list moderators make no effort to discourage the rants.
Here’s a brief, very typical glimpse. Typos were made by the letter-writers. When reading the messages of these parents and friends such as these, it becomes apparent before too long that the only “gay right” they support is, as PFOX puts it, “the right to choose change.”
— Mike
From: John [no last name; e-mail address omitted by XGW]
Reply-To: ex-gay@yahoogroups.com
To: ex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: May 20, 2005 11:51 AM
Subject: [ex-gay] Discrimination
I find that so much of what we see in today’s world in the ultra liberal whatever feels good do it socciety, absent any absolutes, is in reality an attempt to change the meanings of words. This has a profound effect on society, and it always seems to be to all our detriment.
Here is my catch on what the word “discriminate” is being used for in the world of the liberal (this goes FAR beyond the discussion of SSA)..
Webster’s New Politically Correct Collegiate Dictionary
Discrimination: noun a.) Unwillingness to participate in another’s misguided thoughts, b.) refusing to further another’s agenda, c.) adhering to a belief system that has moral absolutes d.) compassion and love, viewed through the skewed prism of a person’s bent and damaged view of life and love.
Meanwhile TRUE discrimination marches on…unseen and unknown by so many.
From: Natalie [no last name; e-mail address omitted by XGW]
Reply-To: ex-gay@yahoogroups.com
To: ex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: May 21, 2005 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ex-gay] Discrimination
Yeah, John.
The thing about discrimination is that it’s GOOD!
Discrimination simply means that you are sorting out the differences. As long as it is used in moderation, it is fine. The gay world loves to stereotype things and say that all straight men are like this….all gay men are like this…. and of course they won’t admit at all that not only are they discriminating but they are taking it a level higher and are unwilling to see that discrimination can only be good to an extent. Just like any other tool, you must understand and respect it’s limits or it will make things worse. We all know that even old ladies can be terrorist, but the thing is they are far more unlikely to be. But in today’s politically correct world, they will randomly pick old ladies who are native to this country out of a crowd, but they ignore all the foreigners walking by her who look like they come from the middle east. Anyway, the same thing happens in the gay community as well. I think we need to be aware that we cannot just try to win the battle in the gay arena. We need to get to the roots of the problem as well. One of the reasons all this political correctness is so powerful in our country is because the liberals knew how to undermine us. They started simply with taking prayer out of schools while preaching soft principles of political correctness. If we are just shooting at the gay community but don’t get involved with teaching out children, voting, etc, then we will lose. We must go for the foundation, get morals and absolutes back in our countries through as many avenues as we can. Onward Christian Soldiers…
Natalie
I was for a while a member of this group. And survived to tell the story. My own impression was that the members were people with very serious problems. I can remember clearly one poster who provided instructions on how to go to GayPride events and pray for the breakdowns of vehicles. Which is a theology indistinguishable from voodoo, as Mencken long ago observed.
We are looking at something that is not so much religion as low magic. In the sense the term is used in Wiccan circles. The whole concept of the exgay seems to be that if one acts as if one were no longer gay, the divine will be forced to recognize one as straight. How this differs from a rain dance I can not see.
Now it seems to me that Gays should cease accepting the fulminations of exgays as being religious in character. They usually, but not always, are not. Instead this is a program of vulger practice, aiming at manipulation. One that should be rejected as basically irreligious.
Excuse me, who is doing the stereotyping here? Last time I checked, all gay people everywhere (e.g. whole “gay world”) put together would find agreement on exactly zero issues.
And who exactly are “they” who are picking elderly caucasian women out of a crowd? I assume the writer is talking about airport security, which is run by a born-again Christian named George W. Bush. Is she saying that Bush is a liberal? Does she have any data to back up the assertion that “all the foreigners walking by who look like they come from the middle east” are being ignored at security checkpoints? If so, that doesn’t make Bush a liberal, that makes him an idiot.
Excuse me, who is doing the stereotyping here? Last time I checked, all gay people everywhere (e.g. whole “gay world”) put together would find agreement on exactly zero issues.
More importantly Michael, you understand the difference between stereotyping and discrimination. Sure you may hear gay guys (some at least) making fun of straight guys as a bunch of brainless, sports-obsessed idiots – and that is most definately stereotyping.
But do we act on those stereotypes? Do we seek to limit straight men’s employment in, for instance, counseling programs (because clearly these insensitive brute could never counsel anyone)? No – and that is the difference.
If the members of PFOX want to believe gays are immoral, and unhappy, or any other stereotypes – let them. I can’t control what someone else thinks.
But when they try to write those stereotypes into law, when they try to interfere with our legal right to live our lives (e.g., if they were to move from praying for vehicle breakdowns to fighting Pride parade permits), that is discrimination, and it is legally wrong in this country.
They can keep us out of their churches, they have no right keeping us a separate or hidden part of society.
Ya caught me, Regan.
I generalized without providing links to additional PFOX messages that would document a trend. So I’ve struck out what some offending phrases.
Dalea: Fake it until you make it, I guess. That’s what they say in AA.