XGW participant Raj commented to Rich: “So do you really believe that your side wouldn’t do that elsewhere?”
I’m not sure what sides are being referred to. At Ex-Gay Watch, the sides that I see (or try to see) are not a “gay-friendly” side vs. an “antigay/exgay” side. Nor is this blog a manifesto against exgays who decide that celibacy is best for them but who also refrain from legislating everyone else’s relationships and religious beliefs. I’ve got no problem whatsoever with the “God wants celibacy for me” philosophy.
The sides that concern me are those who are respectful and tolerant of both gays and exgays, and those who are not.
The Exodus leadership have kept me busy covering their paranoia and intolerance toward gays, so I’ve invited other writers to eventually help cover a broader variety of exgay groups. For example, I know of a few exgay groups that are oriented toward personal growth — not passing laws against gays and nonconservatives — and those groups deserve recognition.
On this blog, I frequently ask exgays to document specific examples of gay activists who are intolerant of them. They decline to cite examples, however, instead repeating generalizations about all gays being intolerant.
I would like to be able to report that there are exgays seeking to restore the movement’s credibility by taking a stand against the anger, jealousy, resentment, paranoia, partisanship, and “revenge” (D.L. Foster’s phrase) of the current Exodus leadership, Stephen Bennett, PFOX, Foster and others.
While some exgays claim to be doing that secretly, behind the scenes, none has done so publicly — so there is nothing to report publicly. When exgays complain to me that this blog doesn’t show their good side, I ask them to show me the good side; I even opened the “Ex-Gays For Reform” blog for them to speak their minds.
The invitation for them to show cyberspace the good side — the tolerant side — in their own words, remains open.
I too have no problem with the “God wants celibacy for me” philosophy. What I do have a profound problem with is the philosophy of “God wants celibacy for me and for all other gays and lesbians – that is, if they can’t ‘convert’ to being straight – and wants me to do eveything in my power to make life as difficult as possible for all those gays and lesbians who don’t agree.
“XGW participant Raj commented to Rich: “So do you really believe that your side wouldn’t do that elsewhere?”
“I’m not sure what sides are being referred to. At Ex-Gay Watch, the sides that I see (or try to see) are not a “gay-friendly” side vs. an “antigay/exgay” side.”
Point taken, but I have no idea who Rich is, or whether he is–or claims to be–ex-gay, or even whether he is anti-gay. Or even whether he is gay. My comment was in response to his opposition to equal marriage rights for gay people. That was the “your side” that I was at least intending to refer to.
Some gay people oppose equal marriage rights for gay people, too–I recall a discussion some of us had with Justin Raimondo (he of anti-war.com fame, among other things) on message boards that IndeGayForum used to maintain. (I won’t go into his “natural law” argument–it made no sense to me then, and it still doesn’t.)
BTW, I know “ex-gay” people. I know ex-straight people, too. And I know ex-straight people who have become ex-gay and vice versa. But they didn’t do it from some sort of religious conversion or religious mau-mauing. And they don’t make a big deal about it. And they generally don’t oppose equal rights for gay people. Nor do they put gay people down. I am sure that why vocal ex-gays who oppose equal rights for gay people is a complex phenomenon, but regarding your complaint (down the main page) as to why, when someone becomes “ex-gay”, particularly pursuant to extremely conservative christian indoctrination, I’ve seen two things happen.
First, it is not unusual for people beholden to extremely conservative christian indoctrination to try to tell other people how to live their lives. (We see that today regarding the sodomy law issue.) More than a few of us find such behavior obnoxious, and would not want to associate with such people. It isn’t just a gay issue. It is on all “lifestyle” issues.
On the other hand, from my observations, it is not unusual for extremely conservative christians to withdraw from dealing with people who do not conform to their values. That is their right, of course, but that is also their choice. And so when one goes through a religious transformation (also, not just a gay issue), it is not unusual for a schism to develop in a friendship.
I’d be surprised if any of the politically active ex-gays were to come here to defend their positions. They’re professional entertainers doing a gig.
I’m not sure if you guys follow along with Randy Thomas’ blog (https://www.randythomas.info/) but today he actually posted a diatribe regarding the situation in CA, it was horribly inaccurate and he compared gays to Nazi’s using Scott Lively of all people as a reference.
For the record, I am straight (an ex-nothing if you will 🙂 and was not at all offended by Raj’s questioning my position. I am also a conservative, evangelical, Christian. However, that does not make me a member of the Religious Right and it was that confusion that Mike was addressing.
I can readily understand why Raj was confused since I was critical of the tactics being used in San Francisco which I still believe may actually promote the passage of the Musgrave amendment. See my most recent blog entry where I number crunch the amendment’s chances. Where I wasn’t clear was that I oppose that amendment and for that I apologize.
I can confirm what Mike is saying. Namely, some (I don’t have a handle on how large of a minority we are) evangelicals are very uncomfortable about the judgmental nature of the more visible ex-gay “ministries”. I can also confirm that evangelicals don’t publicize this because of the embarassment that such an admission would make on the entire evangelical community. Instead, we just whisper it amongst ourselves. It is my hope that other evangelicals get over that embarassment and let the chips fall where they may. That way I could drop the quotes from around the word ministries above. Until then I will be a voice of one crying in the wilderness.