A 16 year old named Zach in Bartlett, Tennessee recently came out to his parents who reacted by announcing they are sending him to an ex-gay live-in program called Love In Action, the same cult like program Peterson Toscano survived. How do we know all this? Zach has been writing about it on his blog found here on MySpace.com. To view Zach’s main profile click here.
On his blog Zach posts program rules given to parents that aren’t supposed to be seen by patients. There are of course several comical rules forbidding any clothing from Abercrombie and Fitch and dining at places like TGI Fridays (because there is a bar attached to the restaurant). Program rules of genuine concern to me is a clear double standard when it came to encouraging honesty, self-examination and reflection in patients. Several selected rules read:
Be honest, authentic, and real.
Absolutely no journaling or keeping a diary outside of the MI* process unless directed or approved by staff.
No discussing therapeutic issues at home. Keep conversations positive.
*[Moral Inventories, where one must keep records of sexual struggles and temptations.]
This troubles me. A participant is to be honest, authentic and real but… family visits are to be glossed over and superficial? Many people use journaling as a method of self reflection and thought. However it appears journals can only to be used to keep a “moral inventory” of sexual temptations. For a program that pretends to stress honesty and authenticity they sure discourage independent thought and discussion both with one’s self and family. Frankly don’t see how this kind of suppression of genuinely productive thought can lead to positive healing no matter what your goal.
In conclusion, Zach was scheduled to be shipped off on June 6th. His MySpace profile indicates he last logged in on the 5th. I would appreciate it if XGW readers kept me updated on any developments as you all peruse the blogosphere. (Thanks to Royi for the initial tip)
Addendum:
A blog has been set up here by a group calling itself the Queer Action Coalition and features day by day accounts of protests at Love Won Out’s headquarters.
A local news broadcast (windows media) can be found here.
This looks to be a valuable effort to save Zach. Love in Action is surely one of the most dangerous of the exgay outfits. With the constant testimony tht LIA encourages suicide, they deserve to be shut down.
Appalling, disgusting and very troubling. This is a direct result of sly and deceptive exgay advertising.More the point — now is the time for Exodus to prove what they claim : that they exist only for those people who WANT to join (in their own words “Our member ministries provide support for individuals who want to recover from homosexuality”)Without even needing to discuss whether parents have legal ability to force their children to attend an ex-gay group; Exodus International is free to make their own policy, and enforce it, among member organisations.Will someone ask Chambers the blunt questions:1. does Exodus International approve of parents forcing an unwilling 16 year old to attend one of their ex-gay affiliates? Yes or No.2. does Exodus approve of one of their affliates taking a “client” such as this young man? Yes or No.
Ah, this is the who Zach fellow referenced elsewhere is.
Um, isn’t this an issue of kidnapping?
Raj — with your first sentence, did you just channel that annoying little character from Star Wars (Yoda? or whatever its name is):-)
The main thing that sets a cult apart from a normal religious group is the instruction not to speak to one’s family about it.
Regardless of my personal perspective, forcing someone to go through a program like this is just counter-productive. Bottom-line – this is not good.
Two observations:
1. “Refuge begins as a two-week commitment from both adolescents and their significant family members.
–So are they saying that even for minors the program is voluntary? Because if it isn’t, then that’s some rather obnoxious false advertising.
2. The organization has three different programs to “correct defects” in women, especially wives, but not one to correct “defective” husbands. That says a lot.
I hope that kid keeps his wits about him and survives to an even stronger self
My wife and I have been suggesting that he go to live with a relative or something, and I’ve given him information about legal emancipation and how to survive brainwashing and interrogation.
He’s young. He may not only learn from this himself, but make the rest of our society learn, too.
I am doing a work for him tonight.
This kind of cultic mind control and brain washing needs national media attention. It is so sickening to see the extremist Evangelical zealots enforcing these kinds of programs of denial forcing denial on the young and unsuspecting. Don’t they understand that freedom of thought and choice is one of the greatest gifts of God? Do they know that they offend God horribly when they do this? It is an outright mockery before God to rob the agency of any of God’s children and that is what Love in Action is doing and it is clearly un-Christian and not at all what I know Christ’s gospel is all about.
I also am very glad Regan DuCasse wrote a note regarding the Native American children back in the early 20th century who were forced to learn the white man’s way and not allowed to speak their native language or have anything to do with their native culture. These so-called “Christians” (the kind of Christians that FOTF and Dobson are about) just keep repeating the same mistakes they have made over the centuries. True Christians do not do these kinds of things. Authentic Christians take Christ at His word in loving people unconditionally and always respecting and upholding a person’s agency.
If you want to see an awesome movie about what Regan DuCasse wrote about rent or buy the video/DVD called The Education of Little Tree. Thank heaven Little Tree had grandparents who shielded him from the toxic effects of the world around him and taught him to love himself, his culture, spirituality and to have a love and respect for nature but his other Cherokee friends were not so fortunate as he was. They lost their culture and were forced to become Christians, etc. It is a crusading kind of mentality and addiction that many Christian organizations just have not been able to get into recovery from. They are just out of control.
I’m worried about this kid, to be honest. His emotional well-being is being attacked by the very people who are supposed to PROTECT him. I daresay that it could be challenged in court as neglect and child endangerment, given what this kid’s blog says.
The rules he posted are disturbingly similar to those at such “institutions” as Bob Jones University.
Please remove any information about any persons directly involved in LIA’s program right now as no one has their permission and if you do not do so, please do not associate our group with this.
This is just out of respect for those currently in LIA to remain safe.
Thank you!
Dear fightinghomophobia,
I am always willing to act to protect gay people from harassment.
However, you seem to be asking for a number of dangerous things:
1. You seem to be asking us to censor the mere first name or pseudonym of someone whose blog remains public and widely referenced. I find this puzzling.
2. You don’t explain how censorship of a pseudonym or blog link protects anyone.
3. You are asking us to grant anonymity to potential accusers against exgay ministries. Certain exgay and religious-right activists use this same unfair tactic of launching accusations against gay people and groups from behind a veil of anonymity. The accused gay people have little effective defense because they don’t know who their accuser is. If someone is going to make an allegation against others, then ideally they should be willing to associate themselves publicly with their accusation. Without such accountability, there is no assurance of honesty or integrity. I’m already disappointed that “Zach” has no last name. I understand why some gay youths might be too afraid to identify themselves and stand by their values. At the same time, I am not fully assured that “Zach” even exists.
4. You do not identify yourself. If you are affiliated with QAC, a name would help establish your authority to make a request on behalf of QAC.
5. You ask, alternatively, for XGW to disassociate QAC from the LIA affair, but the QAC web site discusses the issue more than we do.
I recommend the following action steps:
1. Please identify yourself and explain why already-public information about “Zach” — disclosed by Zach himself, and still available on his blog — should be censored.
2. I would be more than willing to delete references to “Zach” if Zach personally requested the anonymity for his own safety. But if that occurred, then my discussion of LIA would shift to the newly unnamed individual’s anonymity and, therefore, his lack of credibility.
Regards,
Mike Airhart
You may want to mention the QAC blog has removed all references to “Zach” and his blog. Their protest info remains up but the reader is given no idea who they are protesting on behalf of.
True. Yet Zach’s blog is still up and running, and countless sites have referenced it.
Now an anonymous individual claiming to represent QAC *publicly* asks everyone to pretend ignorance and hand over the microphone to anonymous sources?
I greatly appreciate the sensitivity, thoughtfulness, and balance demonstrated by some of those who seem to have become involved — Cherry Blossom Special, for example.
Given their conduct up to now, this request astonishes me — it seems out of character.
I’d have to agree with your refusal, particularly as you have no clue about who made the request or why they made it. I really am hard pressed to see a reasoning behind their request (let alone the motivation). Are they trying to corner the protest market or something?If XGW was being used to out other LIA participants, there would be grounds on simple privacy or potential for retaliation etc. But I have not seen any reference to LIA (or Zach, or QAC) that is not already in a very public domain; and I understand you’d take a dim view of such posting at XGW in any case.
Mike, I want to assure you that Carly is part of the QAC and, though I don’t speak on her behalf, I know from her conversations with me that she meant no insult or harm by her words. Of that I can assure you.
Her intention should be clear to everyone reading this: to steer the conversation away from Zach and towards LIA/Refuge’s willful participation in violating the civil rights of dozens, hundreds of teenagers by accepting them into the program. This is only one story — surely we are talking about numbers which stagger and alarm.
The other concern is that Zach never envisioned the kind of reception he is getting to a posting on his MySpace journal. Never could he, in his wildest of imaginations, have fathomed the overwhelming response to his plight. There are probably plenty of people to whom he is not out, and I think Carly’s fear is that the immense amount of attention may have an opposite effect than the one everyone is hoping to achieve.
However, that being said, it would be impossible at this point to un-ring the bell.
I think that this is more of a cry for help on the part of people organizing here in Memphis, that the story has become so widely read it is difficult to contain. When I get in over my head on things that matter to me, sometimes I lose focus of the goal because I’m so focused on trying to dig out from underneath.
The support of everyone reading is appreciated by the folks here who are just regular folks with jobs trying to eek out a living while taking on a new responsibility whose enormity could never have been predicted.
I’m sorry that’s nonsense. You put something on a public blog and that’s the very nature of the blogosphere that attention is going to shift to newsworthy things.
As far as I’m concerned everything that goes on a public blog is fair game to be linked-to and bloggers know it. Many blog sites allow readers to restrict posts to be viewed by “friends only” but you know what Zach DIDN’T. In this case Zach has willingly opened this aspect of his life to the blogosphere.
1) Zach is still 16 years old. The news media (unlike the blogosphere) has shown restraint where necessary in situations involving minors. It might occur to you that this is not the media ignoring the story but rather protecting itself.
2) Zach did not spread news of his story throughout the blogosphere personally. If not for reading about his story on other blogs, define what the chances are you would have heard about him at all. Let me help you: you wouldn’t have.
3) You seem to think that just because it’s posted out there on the internet it has no protection. You’re totally incorrect, and it is the reason I (and thousands of other bloggers) have things such as a Creative Commons License clearly posted on our website. It is a measure of protection from people who think that just because it’s out there it’s fair game. Zach did not have one on his blog, but the content of MySpace blogs, in general, are not cached by search engines unless they have been linked to a larger entity because the content is for registered members only.
Zach’s parents are, ostensibly, punishing him for being gay. It sounds like, from what you just said, you want to punish him for asking people for help. If I were him, I’d be hard-pressed not to question what your motivation is. It’s as if you’ve said, “This is a horrible tragedy you are dealing with, but if you’re going to make it my problem then I don’t care what happens to you”.
If I’m reading too much into what you’ve said, now would be a good time to correct me, I’m all ears.
I agree that blogosphere attention has focused too narrowly on one individual rather than the broader issues and people impacted by Love In Action.
And I recognize that QAC is motivated not by the plight of one individual, but by its overall opposition to mental and spiritual abuse allegedly committed by Love In Action against participants.
It’s the huge audience that is receiving this that is making it all happen. If people hadn’t discovered Zach’s MySpace blog, the active protest that is actually going on outside the center itself would have never happened. It’s *because* of the widespread attention that this is getting that Zach is going to get support from all these people.
My friends and I are personally submitting this story to local CNN and Fox news stations, as well as to other news websites. The more public this is, the more people will finally begin to understand the torture that many gay teenagers have to undergo. It would be wonderful if some kind soul would offer to adopt him as their own. His parents are a travesty; an insult to all parents everywhere. They don’t deserve Zach as their son, and Zach deserves so much better.
I truly hope he is as strong as his friends on his MySpace say he is. Otherwise, he will be scarred for life after this. If he can’t beat it, his parents will have ruined his mind for the rest of his life. We can only hope and pray that he is able to get through this terror camp and walk away from it still a proud and strong human being with every ounce of decency still remaining in his blood. If I didn’t live so far away from Memphis, I would be there every day protesting with all those other wonderful people until Zach’s release. And then I would be there to hug him with everyone else (not including his “parents”) and tell him that he still has the power to live and be true to himself.
I’d hate to see either LIA or equality advocates turn Zach into their political poster boy. He’s 16 years old, for God’s sake. Whether he realized it or not when he started blogging, he’s going to need to finish growing up on his own terms. The blogosphere is not necessarily a safe place for youths to work through their own private struggles.
And given that nobody knows who his parents are, or the extent of their knowledge of LIA, the accusation that they’re a “travesty” seems to be without foundation.
I’d hate to see either LIA or equality advocates turn Zach into their political poster boy. He’s 16 years old, for God’s sake. He needs to finish growing up on his own terms.
This is true, and I wasn’t (or at least I didn’t mean to) suggest that Zach be a political poster boy for any organization. However, these groups sprung up because of his blog, and that is amazing in and of itself. For now, he is their focus. However, it hopefully won’t stop once he is released and everyone makes sure he is mentally okay. This will hopefully be the first of many attacks on these “foundations” that destroy people; especially children and teenagers. His case in particular will hopefully get the ball rolling until the rampant homophobia in this country is squashed.
As for his parents, if this story is being covered in Memphis as much as the commenters on Zach’s blog claim, they should be smart enough to pull him out of the program. If they’ve seen everyone screaming at them for their horrible decision and they still refuse to remove their son from this Christian torture camp, then I think that’s grounds to call them a travesty.
It seems so vital to focus and accomplish goals in educating indivduals/organizations/churches, etc about LIA and similar places, as well as raising awreness of the general undertone from in which they operate. However, doesn’t it seem so vital to make sure that, in this process, no victim of this organization is used as a means of hooking “the story” in a way that may lead to further his/her already traumatic situation. Who knows in truth how it’s affecting a situation we’re unable to get inside of, but being cautious about it seems like a good approach. If anyone has had the experience of fighting an organization like this, I’m sure the people involved with QAC down in memphis would appreciate as much help as possible, as it’s not the most popular of fights, and everyone seems to really want to find the best way to make an effective stand against LIA.
If I were a parent being screamed at by homosexuals, the last thing I’d want to do is pull my teen-ager out of an ex-gay program.
It would be more effective to politely point out to them that, according to its own co-founder, John Evans, LIA has been emotionally abusing people for decades. (Google search on John Evans.)
You bring up a great point, Mike. This type of situation brings up a broader spectrum of concerns that the gay community should seek to address, because situations like this are a political hot button and may choose to be politicized by those with a type of ill intent that extends beyond this issue.
Assume for a moment that the vote in our last election was accurate. Now, if someone asked me what issue decided the 2004 presidential election, I would tell them gay marriage did. Why, might you ask, would I believe such a thing when we are at war? Well, let me elaborate for a second.
The people on the right want the gay community to be up in arms about any cause which violates the community’s civil rights as a whole because the gay community is known to speak their mind. Speaking out, demonstrating, marching, taking the issue to the streets — these are things that I doubt anyone in the gay community would deny.
The conservative element in our country enjoys making a mockery of the gay community for that very reason. I’ve heard it expressed directly by conservatives who would say (to paraphrase), Oh great, the faggots have a cause and they’re marching again.
So the community must be torn between two equally difficult options: saying and doing nothing at the cost of of civil rights or speaking out at the cost of being ridiculed by conservatives.
We also have to remember that the agenda of one group within the gay community is not the agenda of the entire community itself; yet to a conservative with no first-hand understanding or knowledge of the “community”, that’s what it becomes — if a group is marching and speaking out about an issue, suddenly it’s every gay person’s agenda.
Thus, there is great truth to your statement, Mike. If I were a parent, particularly a religious conservative parent, being screamed at by homosexuals, I might be tempted to behave as those conservatives I mentioned have done. I might just say to myself, “Oh great, the faggots have a cause and they’re marching again,” and then proceed to follow the path of the people I trust most.
It’s a huge concern, and it goes far beyond this one issue. I merely put it out there as something to consider.
Individuals are always better than groups in showing to the public unfairness and unequality. Ann Frank, Rosa Parks, Matthew Shepard. Zach is much more effective in getting a “message” out about unfair treatment than talking about the whole. People love a narrative.
To finish my thought: that is why it is of the utmost importance for coalitions meant to fight for gay civil rights, to prevent atrocities like this from occurring, to include people of all ages, races, nationalities, sexual orientations, political beliefs, religious beliefs, and backgrounds. It is not enough for people to privately agree with the actions of any one segment of a minority community; they must be willing to make a physical show of support — get involved in a demonstration, send an email, write an elected official, make a phone call. For people who are not gay, merely stating agreement with a cause is not enough for change to occur. You must do something, or else all it looks like is a bunch of homosexuals screaming.
By the way, I didn’t mean to imply that QAC or anyone else in Memphis is screaming at LIA attendees and their families. I don’t know where Marc got that characterization from.
Thank you for clarifying. I don’t want anyone to insinuate that based on what I just wrote, either. In a certain way (not to diminish its importance), it’s a fan club for the person these kids were on the day they walked into the program. QAC et. al. are not just there to demonstrate against LIA, they’re there as a reminder that the world is not exactly the way the people at inside the walls of LIA tell them it is. If they see people out there when they arrive, kids being sent there against their will know that there is greater hope than what is being fed to them by the charlatans at LIA.
“Screaming” was not meant to imply actual screaming, since obviously that isn’t happening. However, an uproar ensued when the news got out. My mistake. “Screaming” does have quite a different connotation than “uproar.”
EJ,If I can squash it all into a few words: you are basically saying some of the individuals (Zach? QAC?) are feeling a little overwhelmed, and that the discussion shouldn’t be about individuals in any case? If there is any reason to suspect the discussion could be counter-productive or endanger a person I am sure we would all moderate our comments (moderate, not impose a blanket ban) and behave responsibly.I think we can all appreciate that, and at the same time recognise that putting a name and a face to prejudice provides a far stronger narrative for the general public. That is why the story has been picked up (and, actually, why anyone has ever heard of the QAC or yourself frankly). And to be honest, the “story” is larger than LIA.To draw a comparison: gay men and women are bashed and murdered because of their sexuality every day, but who can deny that the occassion of one young man in Wyoming struck a chord across the World. Being 16 years old and being coerced to be straight is something I think most of the XGW people fully understand all too well. We’ve been there, or still are.If it’s any help, please check up to the beginning of this string of posts. In my own case I did grasp that this was not about an individual, but about the ex-gay movement and how it behaves. I have sent several emails hoping to check the veracity of some of the basic information about LIA/Smid, and will return with any replies that appear able to add to the discussion.best wishes.
grantdale — close.
I’m saying that humanizing the story was important when folks like me first started talking about it.
At the root level, four bloggers in Memphis began talking about this situation — myself, The Pesky Fly, River City Mud Company, and Pro-Active Busybody. All four of us farmed the story out in different ways and, interestingly, the most effective farming was done by Abby at Pro-Active Busybody who posted links and information to various Tribe locations (New York, San Francisco, and Tennessee). All of us figured, “Hey, this is a very human story which demands attention.”
None of us ever considered that it would spread as far and wide as it did, though all of us are grateful. However, with the extent of the story’s impact on the blogosphere and the media, we are now — all of us including the QAC folks — trying to pull in the reins ever so slightly.There is a total of about 10-15 people, only six or seven of whom are directly entertwined, who are working to draw attention to this horror. Imagine now, if you will, suddenly having to weed through 4000 hits a day of new traffic to your site, limitless emails and requests from other media for quotes or insight, and a bevvy of people with particular special interests trying to attach their own angle to the story. Imagine further that you’ve never had to deal with something so monolithic, and you’ve got the picture.After all is said and done, we only know that our new friend is well, that friends of his have seen him at church, and he appears to be holding up. He has no earthly idea what is going on out here, and when he returns to our internet world it will probably be a bit like Christmas temporarily. Then, once the excitement of it wears off, he will have to contend with two alternating realities: the whole world loves me, but the whole world also suddenly feels they know me.It might have an opposite impact than the one he, or any of us, hoped to achieve by threading his story to people like you.Nobody’s going to make anyone do anything they don’t want to do here, that’s the whole notion. I think each of us just wants people newly familiar with LIA and our friend the client to attempt to be unselfish in the way they handle things. All of us should be patently clear that at the epicenter of my initial cry for help there is a real person here with a real story, but (as a couple of fellow bloggers put it) we can’t ignore the big pink elephant in the room simply because we’re focusing on the mouse on his back. Consider these factors and consider all possible outcomes when deciding how to proceed from here forward. That’s all.
EJ,I’m not sure who you mean (the general public?) when you say a reality is a whole world thinking they know someone who’s been news.I haven’t got that impression about XGW people, and I am certain I do not think that. But (even) we all have a very good idea about what it is like to be 16 and dealing with it all. Fortunately, and I agree, we didn’t have to do in front of the whole World; but we are aware and we do understand.As for suddenly finding yourself n the middle of a media franzy. Well, jeepers EJ — just ask nicely, and people can help …Haven’t you heard? We of the Gay Agenda (c) run the media.(In between destroying marriage, ruining public schools, taking drugs, dancing all night and adding another to our list of 1,000 sexual partners per year; of course.)
grantdale, that’s exactly who I mean. His picture being everywhere with the story = instant fame of sorts.
In re your comments on media frenzy, I just physically laughed out loud for a full thirty seconds. Thank you, I needed some humor to brighten my day.
I agree with the comparison to Matthew Sheppard. For years there had local media stories in nearly every city in America about gay bashing. But for some reason (young pretty helpless looking blond kid, I’m guessing) Matthew’s story stuck. America finally noticed.
Was that “fair” to Matt and his family? Maybe not?
Were the local gay organizations prepared? No. Was their position usurped by national gay groups? You bet.
Eventually, it may have been less about Matt’s orientation than we thought.
All of that doesn’t matter. This was the story that made people finally recognize that their sons and daughters were being beaten to death.
So now we have Zach.
This probably will be overwhelming for him. And his friends and supporters probably do feel out of control.
But this could be the story that makes people realize the cruelty and cultishness inherent in the ex-gay movement. The Zach Story could be what it takes to discredit PFOX and their web of lies.
My only real concern would be if Zach came out of the process “cured” and (during that narrow window in which the ex-gay groups convince their victoms that they are now “straight”) was used as a tool of the ex-gay propagandists.
My guess is that Zach has no idea of what’s going on in the outside world. LIA basically cut him off from everything so he has absolutely no clue as to how “famous”(?) he has become.
He’s not going to come out of that brainwashing camp in 2 weeks “cured” and I have a feeling that his parents are none too happy about the attention he’s getting. They have come off looking horribly in all of this.
He seemed pretty secure with himself going into this (you’d have to be to tell your parents at age 16). I have a feeling he’ll come out much stronger.
I have to correct myself. I doubt that Love In Action will claim Zach has “changed” or been “cured”
One of the things I noticed on the LIA website is that they claim:
“There is no such creation as a “gay” or “homosexual” person. There is only homosexual attraction and behavior; accordingly, there can be no change from a sexual identity that never existed in the first place.”
Another interesting quote from them goes to the often-debated issue on this site about whether the source of ones orientation matters.
“If we define homosexuality as an identity, and inborn characteristic or a hormonal imbalance, there is no answer or hope. If, however, we call it what it really is – a struggle with sinful desires and behavior – then throughout Scripture we’re given ways to handle it.”
But perhaps the most interesting thing I saw there was a testimony by a Rebekah THROCKMORTON
https://www.loveinaction.org/media/documents/RebekahThrockmortonTestimony.pdf
Now I don’t know how many Thockmortons there are out there (I only see 31 with phone numbers listed in Warren’s home state of Pennsylvania). But I do have to wonder if we’ve now identified Warren’s obsession with gay folk.
If Rebekah turned out to be Warren’s daughter, it would add him to the list of folks with personal agenda imposing their family issues onto the rest of the county: Alan Keyes, Phyllis Schlafley, Randall Terry, etc.
Hmm, TimothyThat testimony (or whatever they’re calling them these days) did jump out because of the odd name, but that’s about all.Throckmorton does have at least two daughters — don’t know what age.He was also originally from Ohio; Cedarville area maybe? sorry, cannot remember off the top of my head but that is where he did his undergrad (at, sur-priz, a religious college)
You’re right, Regan, it all comes down to — always comes down to — whether we’re real and, if we are, whether they can force us (in all the many ways they try) to fake it that we’re not.
I don’t know about the rest of y’all but I am not going to pretend not to exist just so that someone else can live a comfortable fiction of my nonexistence.
Starting from when I was a little girl I knew that, if they wanted that for themselves, they were going to have to do all the work toward their own delusion themselves — and I was going to live a life so real, so vital, so authentic, so honest that, even if I was the only one in the whole world doing it, it was going to make their maintenance of their fantasy a very, very hard job.
I’m probably well past the halfway point in my life now and have thus had enough experience to be able to tell Zach and all the others in peril of being buried under a mountain of antigay lies into virtual or actual nonexistence that being real is worth it — that the Velveteen Rabbit was right.
Egad, that’s horrible! Poor Zach. 🙁
Meanwhile…so a male “client” is supposed to turn into a fundamentalist Christian straight guy, he’s not allowed to have sexual fantasies, and he’s supposed to report any sexual fantasies to the staff trying to turn him straight?
What if he made up some sexual fantasies about the very preference they want him to have? You know:
“I dreamed that I married a woman in a [insert name of his parent’s denomination] church and then we went to the honeymoon suite and [explicit hetero details] and then I broke her hymen and [explicit hetero details] and that’s how we made a baby.”
How on earth would they react? Could it break their brains or something?
Also, the BBC recently reported on a similar case in India, except it’s about a lesbian 22-year-old whose parents keep her under house arrest: https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4566091.stm
By the way, I didn’t mean to imply that QAC or anyone else in Memphis is screaming at LIA attendees and their families. I don’t know where Marc got that characterization from.
FROM ZACH’S BLOG
hey guy.
hopefully we’ll see ya there tomorrow morning, and then EVERY MORNING at 9 am for the next two weeks.
we got the media there. the bastards that were pretending to be so nice and friendly to us came outside and had a brief debate with morgan….but we had something much better, we had 30 screaming chanting singing clapping kids, most of them young, holding signs and smiling and laughing back at their disapproving stares.
please know that if you somehow get out (or whenever you finish the program) if your parents give you no options, you’ve got like a thousand people willing to help you out.
Posted by still yer fag on Monday, June 06, 2005 at 2:04 PM
[Reply to this]
So they really were a bunch of screaming homosexuals.
DL
Go back and read your post. Yes, there were “screaming chanting singing clapping kids”. But were they “screaming at LIA attendees and their families”?
That’s not the impression I got.
Hey, DL, I have a question for you: Is it morally worse to:
a) live in the “homosexual lifestyle”, or
b) tell half-truths, spread unconfirmed “facts”, repeat stories you know not to be true, and even lie?
I have an opinion as to which is more unacceptable to God. What’s yours?
In response to the original blog and it’s headline, are you sure this is a ‘live-in’ program? I went to Refuge’s website and it stated that their 2 week program is a day program with the family staying in a hotel/motel if they are out of the area. Certainly the crap these groups perpetuate on kids is disgusting, but at least it seemed to be that he didn’t have to endure 24 hours/day with them. (Of course the other part of his day with parents who sent him there in the first place can’t be a picnic either…. )
Hi PhilCorrect, the Refuge is a 2 week regime where the kid stays in a local motel with a parent/guardian. And attend 9-5 Mon-Fri. And I agree: you have to stay with a wingnut parent and do homework, so I’m not sure there’s much relief during you’re waking hours. Sleep would be a blessed relief (hands above the covers and lights on, of course).Their residential offering is called “The Source”.
Phil,
True. However, the program requires that parents apply a set of rules to the participant during the hours away from the program. Included in these rules are (for at least a period of time):
No verbal communication between participant and anyone else, including parents and family
No communication of any kind allowed with outside persons – including no taking of messages
Severe dress and grooming codes (some crazy ones too, involving banning certain brands, shaving off sideburns at the top of the ear)
Limited continuing education
Not allowing the participant to go to bookstores, malls, or even certain parts of town
etc. etc.
So he may not be preached to 24 hours a day, but he still has severe limitations on basic life.
Is it morally worse to:
a) live in the “homosexual lifestyle”, or
b) tell half-truths, spread unconfirmed “facts”, repeat stories you know not to be true, and even lie?
Both are equally repugnant and repulsive to God.
I think you have numerous examples of both right here on this site.
DL,You may have noticed John Smid quoted Ephesians 6:4 — you remember, the one about fathers bringing up children in the “training and admonition of the Lord”. No mention of what the mothers are meant to do, but I guess they’d be there to help the father do that. I suppose that’s a quote Smid thought would support the biblical right to force children to attend LIA.But what about the next verse? Eph 6:5… the one about slaves being obedient to their bossman?Since this is the new testament, this still applies today. Care to comment?Or are you one of those “cafeteria christians”?
Grantdale asks of DL Foster: ‘Or are you one of those “cafeteria christians”?’
Is there some other kind of Christian?
Dale, no, there isn’t any other kind of christian.
If you look on Zach’s profile page, one of his school friends posted a comment last night explaining that his stay has just been extended by 6 weeks.
>>>You may have noticed John Smid quoted Ephesians 6:4 — you remember, the one about fathers bringing up children in the “training and admonition of the Lord”. No mention of what the mothers are meant to do, but I guess they’d be there to help the father do that. I suppose that’s a quote Smid thought would support the biblical right to force children to attend LIA.
But what about the next verse? Eph 6:5… the one about slaves being obedient to their bossman?
Since this is the new testament, this still applies today. Care to comment? Or are you one of those “cafeteria christians”?>>>
Well, here’s my comment:
This thread is about the Zach’s blog, not what style of christian one perceives oneself to be. However, if you want to engage me on such questions of christianity and the resultant issues thereof, you are welcome to post them on my forum under “ALL THAT”
No DL, you do not deserve me. Regan’s already tested you and your offers.This thread is not about Zach’s blog. He is just the latest example.This thread is about the way that ex-gay groups do accept unwilling clients. Even those young men and women who have reached an age of sexual emancipation.Exodus takes clients even when they are being forced. This shows that the ex-gay campaign based on “choice” is a filthy lie. Perhaps we should not be also stunnned that your first post on this thread was also based on wild assumption, a misrepresentation and rudeness.I comment at this place, not yours, and am not willing to give you any oxygen.I remain willing to know your views on biblical-based slavery.
lol, whatever.
DL, your link doesn’t work.
DL Foster Posted:
Is it morally worse to:
a) live in the “homosexual lifestyle”, or
b) tell half-truths, spread unconfirmed “facts”, repeat stories you know not to be true, and even lie?
Both are equally repugnant and repulsive to God.
I think you have numerous examples of both right here on this site.
That may be true, Mr. Foster, but I was told as a child that the worst sin was rejecting God and His Son, Jesus Christ. As the ONLY path to Christ is through the Roman Catholic Church (per the nuns’ teaching to me), I guess I should consider you, being a non-Catholic, as committing a sin far worse than either of those mentioned above.
After all, if we are going to judge one another based on whether they follow Christ’s word, we should be clear that nearly every “Christian” denomination out there is considered heretical by the very first Christian church.
Bringing this back around to LIA – The organizers of this “camp” are committing even worse sins than either being gay or lying – they are actively trying to foist their heresy on innocent children.
DL,
you said “Both are equally repugnant and repulsive to God.”
According to your above statement, God will judge you no less harshly for allowing lies, distortions, and half-truths to be spread than if you had stayed in the “homosexual lifestyle”.
Just a little thought for you when it comes time to claim “gays die sooner”, “gays want to destroy the fabric of America”, or any of Paul Cameron’s lies. You have an obligation to dispute the lies or suffer God’s judgement.
https://wftw.proboards3.com/index.cgi
(for dalea only)
I see that DL managed to take the time to leave a link to Witness Ministries but did not have time to address my comment about refuting lies.
I wonder if that means he agrees that he is personally responsible to God to oppose any deceit that is spread about by the ex-gay ministries.
Rebekah Throckmorton is not related to the person you are thinking.
Yes, we know None. Warren answered that question here at XGW.
***NEWS about LIA Documentary by poster Morgan Fox***
Screening of the Documentary
“Love in Action”
With Director Morgan Jon Fox
Deepening the Dialogue
The Evergreen State College, Lecture Hall 5
May 3, 2006 – 6:00 pm
Director Fox will show his work in progress “Love in Action” documenting the story of how a 16 year old from Memphis, TN was sent to Love in Action, a reparative therapy camp to make him straight. Follow the story of how the queer community, allies, and the media responded. Director Fox is particularly interested in expanding his work to promote more dialogue and understanding around highly charged issues – come and participate in the unfolding conversation!
Sponsors include: President’s Diversity Fund; TESC Innovation Grant; TESC Academic Programs: Information Landscape, Internships in the Public Service, Masters in Teaching, Multicultural Counseling, and Theater Intensive; TESC Academic Deans; Stonewall Youth