A rally was held at the Oklahoma Sate Capital in support of Representative Sally Kern’s comments on homosexuality. Among other things, she said that gays and their desire for rights are more dangerous to our country than terrorism. The rally was held mostly by churches and related groups, who seem to view Kern as a prophetic “voice in the wilderness.” Ostensibly held to fight for Kern’s right of free speech, this appears to be little more than a straw man as no one has seriously questioned that she has such a right.
Interviewed at the rally, executive director Stephen Black of First Stone Ministries, a member of ex-gay Exodus International, seemed to agree with Kern’s message. From The Oklahoman:
Stephen Black, executive director of First Stone Ministries in Oklahoma City, said he once was gay. His organization, he said, helps men and women overcome homosexuality.
“There is a political agenda and a cultural message about homosexuality (and) that it is destructive to our country,” he said.
Exodus has taken on a “veil of decency” of late, but we are still waiting to see genuine, outward evidence of this change. Last year Exodus president Alan Chambers talked of “jaunty mustached muscle men” and the “evil gay agenda” waiting to take people in while speaking at the dismal Family Impact Summit.
Before anyone at Exodus argues with the same straw man, we believe Black has the right under the First Amendment to say whatever he likes. However, what would their reaction be if he were to have denied the Deity of Christ? Might they have something to say about that?
Let’s see if they have something to say about this. Or perhaps Alan Chambers agrees with Sally Kern? When we asked for his comments on her original talk, he replied with “no comment.”
Let’s reword that and see if it passes….
Hmm, still sounds bigoted.
I think Kern and her supporters don’t understand that freedom of speech means that we can critique her, and someone else can critique our critique of her, and this can go back and forth ad infinitum.
I think the furor over her remarks were as follows:
1. She was factually wrong on several points.
2. She is an elected official, and as such, is expected to represent the people not just straights, not just Christians.
3. She expressed the anti-freedom notion that “not all religions are equal”. As far as US law is concerned, they are. See constitution for further details.
4. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from critique or consequences. You can’t be thrown in jail for speaking your mind, but the voters have every right to express their disapproval, and hold her accountable for her remarks.
So ex-gay groups have no problem with someone who says gays are worse than terrorists, wow these people are self-haters.
When we asked for his comments on her original talk, he replied with “no comment.
Oh. Wow. Is this the first time Chambers is actually following his spanking new “we are getting out of politcs” rule?
I guess it is rather a shame he didn’t wait until after Kern had made her revolting comments, so he could rebuke her, but gotta start some time I guess.
(now: fair warning Alan… when you DO decide to make social comment in the future — and you will — you’ll be reminded of this occassion. What better opportunity could you have been given to show you and Exodus oppose the anti-gay bully: and you missed it, by choice. I presume you at least got on the blower and reminded Stephen Black about the new “no politics” rule?)
David,
Black wasn’t just interviewed. He was a speaker at the rally:
If anyone wonders what kind of ministry Exodus is affiliated with in Oklahoma City, on Black’s personal blog he posted a picture of San Francisco after the big 1906 earthquake with this below:
This guy is one of those who believe that God’s going to send destruction on cities that are welcoming of their gay citizens.
Yeesh….
It is important to note that Sally Kern IS an elected official. She is a LAWMAKER and therefore can be held to a higher standard because lives and freedom depend on it.
Her speech indicates not only that she’d vote for antagonistic laws against free gay citizens, but she would do so for false and non existent reasons!
Indeed she HAS a voting record that shows it.
As someone who has worked in law enforcement and been confronted with truly depraved human behavior, I’m seriously confused by people who don’t believe me when I say that gay people don’t do it, cause it and are as concerned with fighting it as any good citizen.
If I got in Kern’s business and told her that gangs, drugs and loss of economic security in this country is what is dangerous, NOT gay people…would she listen?
Is she so set to make demons out of gay citizens that she’d dismiss the service of gay soldiers and police officers that work to secure her and her constiuent’s safety?
How moral is it, to speak out like that against people whose taxes ALSO pay her salary?
Free speech isn’t that free when you don’t have the moral spine to use it responsibly.
And she deserves to pay a price for being irresponsible.
Certainly innocent gay people have and are at risk for paying for what her words do.
Before anyone at Exodus argues with the same straw man, we believe Black has the right under the First Amendment to say whatever he likes.
You gotta really admire the chutzpa of people who say their free speech rights are being suppressed…during a rally at the state capital…
Eric said,
This reminds me of the movie, “Eating Out 2: Sloppy Seconds” where one of the leading actors says, “ex-gays are my least favorite kind of gays”.
Regan Ducasse said,
Plz expand
Timothy Kincaid said,
WHAT DID BOSTON, BALTIMORE AND THE DC AREA DO? If this is what exodus underlyingly believes, they should join hands with the WBC. Their speech of god hates fags(as in practicing homosexuality) and fags are dooming america go pretty much parallel to this. I bet the WBC is far from being alone on this.
So 100years l8er and God still hasnt done anything… huh? SO if anythign happens at any given time to any given state that upholds these ‘morally perversive’ views it was CAUSE of the GAYS? In san fransisco I bet the earths shifting platess have NOTHING to do with this. And… what about the propogation of safe promiscous sex… WTH is safe promiscous sex!?, God clearly forbids ANY sex outside of marriage, no? Then, if homosexuality is just another sin being ‘agenda’d’, isn’t the ‘agenda’d’ safe promiscous sex also in line with the expressed God condemnation? THus… america is clearly doomed, as are many other nations. Also, I guess the Middle East’s Alah worshipping citizens(w/ moral police) are safe. But, wasn’t idolatry something clearly condemned whilst making god explicitly angry, specially when its rampant? Moreover… what about those places that have already assimilated gay marriage =o… THEY WILL EXPLODE SOON, unless, of course, god is only concerned with america.
When they make comments like these i can’t decide wether to believe, at face value, their experience of ex-gay or to dismiss it as just a name for the cause. I’d definately not want to be labeled with the thing that is dooming entire countries, let alone jeopardize ones never-ending life.
I bet Alan Chambers does, to some degree, believe in this. At least he does believe there is an agenda. You can find it in his blog, first article on the tab of homosexuality. Anyways… i hope he comments on this soon.
While Sally Kern might have just a little bit of a concern about her ability to retain her legislative seat given the bad odor her supposed friends in Washington have managed to put on the tag “Republican,” I think the real issue is that she conflates the dominance based social scheme she buys into with the American (USA) Nation.
She presumed that her entirely political speech was a privileged communication with a group of her peers. That means that she thinks she somehow has the clout to make it that way, and is not the least concerned that the presumption is profoundly anti-democratic.
Her content was all about how gay agenda people were successfully targeting local and state legislative bodies and how that threatened the hegemony she assumed her intended audience ought to exercise. In the process she told some widely challenged howlers. That includes the seriously odd assertion that conservative seriously wealthy folks have not tried to influence elections anywhere near as much as say, Tim Gill.
When she gets called on the carpet for her performance, she gets all blathery about free speech when the real issue is, as we might say, “bearing false witness.” Unlike some church folks, the political process provides for a certain accountability when that is the issue.
After some considerable gyrations across her hometown political stage, Mrs. Kern decides that that accounting should be avoided and agrees to be supported by the local representative of some big guns from out of town. He stands up and bears some false witness to drive home his “Support your local hegemonist.” point and perhaps sop up a few contributions along the way. Many otherwise sensible people are saved the bother of having to consider whether perhaps they are more seriously oppressed by ostensible co-religionists who lie to them than they are by some leather queen who is seriously concerned that children should not be bullied at school or that local government should be done responsibly.
It would all be a splendid South Park episode, or perhaps a British comedy series for aging grown-ups, “Teatime in Tulsa,” but for the consideration that real people are seriously injured in the process.
So, amidst all this talk about what God is going to do to San Francisco, Boston, etc., what did God do today? He blew up the First Baptist Church in Oconomowoc, Wis. Here’s the story.
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Why doesn’t Sally Kern, Stephen Black, Alan Chambers, and the rest of the gang team up with some Hollywood producer and remake D.W. Griffith’s “Birth of a Nation” only change the target of hate towards homosexuals and not the African-American community. Taking a cue from Ms. Kern’s hateful speech they could retitle it “Death of a Nation.” Heck, with a little luck they might even get to star in the flick.
It seems to me God sends a lot more natural disasters on the anti-gay Bible Belt states than God does on the liberal gay-loving states. Based on God’s apparent track record I’d be really nervous if I were living in the South and Midwest – hurricanes, droughts, and tornadoes are probably on the way. If they do come it will be “proof” God disapproves of their behavior toward homosexuals.
Right now I am fried. All of this stuff is coming out of the woodwork, and just when one thinks things are improving for gay families, we are reminded that we are still hated by many (who claim hate is love). In a country that supposedly favors tolerance and self-made virtues, the idea that over 1000 people can rally to defend someone who said some vile things is disturbing. Words are words though, and I am less concerned about words than action. Some of the people who support Kern have been giving a lot of money for marriage amendments in California.
What is more scary is that it was reported today that there will soon be enough signatures to put these amendments on the ballot. They would be constitutional amendments that would ban marriage and dissolve domestic partnerships. The courts will have their hands tied with such amendments, and it will be very tough to get rid of an amendment once there. I have been in a domestic partnership since the first year it was allowed, and it was out of necessity. I am not a big fan of marriage, but the rights of the partnership are needed.
My mother-in-law has been in nursing homes and hospitals for the last three months. The family is very emotional, and I have taken over much of the decision making process at this time. If in November my partnership is dissolved because of a hurtful amendment, I will probably not be able to be a partner in my mother-in-law’s care. Sure, we can go through all the legal hassle and spend lots of money and time to make me a decision bearer, but it is not likely we will do that. Kern’s words hurt people, but I am more concerned about people who covertly or openly believe the same as her and will vote to destroy what little I have in my rights. Oklahoma is a long way from California, but the hateful views spread from coast to coast.
Honestly, I have a feeling the amendments will pass. If California passes such amendments, it will be worse for other states, and they will continue to outdo each other for the most punitive amendments possible.
I so agree with you, Nick R. These anti-gays and ex-gays STEAL homosexual’s illusive “gay agenda” idea, LIE that there is one in the first place, IDOLIZE heterosexuality, JEALOUS when homosexuals get equal rights and responsible for the MURDER of countless homosexuals by denying them hate crime protection. Homosexual clobber verses are always arguable. But what they broke above are the half of the actual 10 commandments. With this, no wonder homosexual intolerant states and countries are hit by more natural disasters than homosexual affirming places and locations. I think it is obvious by statistics who have God’s eyes and are in His favour. God knows what is going on.
Mr. Black must have gone to Jerry Fallwell’s church. He’s the one who instructed America that the Twin Towers destruction was God’s judgement on gays, or was that Pat Robertson? I dunno, they and their agenda all look alike.
I do note a conspicuous oversight on the Black list. One of the most recent “something terrible” that I can recall happened in Blacks home town, Oklahoma City (McVeigh terrorist bombing).
Gee, what can we extrapolate from this, using Blacks line of reasoning? All I can say right now is…I would stay out of Oaklahoma City.
Sally said something to the effect that rally was about standing up for the right to proclaim the salvation earned for us by Christ… What part of the things she said in that meeting had anything to do with the love of Christ? She ran a tirade against an enemy that she perceived was beating her. Jesus never did that, nor did he die so that people could do that. That brand of Christianity is so counterfeit it’s actually anti-Christian (not just unchristian).
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Aaron,
You can breath easier. The CA amendment that has almost enough signatures would only ban marriage in name and would not dissolve domestic partnerships.
I found it more than a little ironic that the “hurricane God sent to destroy Sin City” left the French Quarter intact but tore the roof off of homophobic James Kennedy’s Coral Ridge church. Either these guys misunderstand the nature of God, or their god has really bad aim.
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What kind of treatment logically follows towards a group that is more of a threat to our country than terrorism?
Would that legitimize incarceration? disenfranchisement? beatings? torture? killing?
And would not those who do so claim they are doing God a service all the while?
These people, the national-religionists, are so fond of saying “words have consequences.” But their unbridled tongues sling death and destruction from sun-up to its setting.
Ok, but keep in mind I didn’t keep any kind of record, so this is basically my word against his.
To the best of my recollection:
Moderator Action: After consideration, and seeing the content of Boo’s account, I have removed this until and unless Mr. Black can comment on it himself. I will email the account to him and see if he cares to respond. Generally, incidents can be recalled here in the first person, but as there seems to be no hard evidence, it seems unfair to place this in the record. As Boo indicated, all we would have is “he said, she said” and that is useless.
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LOL! wow! BOO! Truly you are scary!
I talked with Stephen about your claims…
Moderator Action: The rest of this comment claims things said by Stephen Black to Boo, through a third party. We aren’t comfortable with this, especially since the commenter is new. If Mr. Black would like to comment directly, and we can be reasonably sure of his identity, then a civil response is fine and welcome.
We also do not allow comments from people who do not supply their legitimate, working email address. That fact that Mark did not makes us even more leery.
Wasn’t that a separate hurricane that hit Coral Ridge (which is in Florida)? In any case, it is interesting that Hurricane Katrina hit God-fearing Mississippi harder than it hit the most ‘sinful’ part of New Orleans…
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Eugene,
You are right. It was hurricane Wilma that took off Coral Ridge’s roof.
I think Wilma was supposed to be punishing Key West for Fantasy Fest (which in the anti-gay press magically became a “homosexual debauchery party”).
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