Ex-gay and ex-transexual Sy Rogers speaks at Hillsong Church, Australia, this week. The controversial Sydney Pentecostal church has titled the seminar Sense and Sexuality.
Although publicity makes no mention of homosexuality, Hillsong is apparently no stranger to ex-gay therapy. A former member recently spoke about her time as part of the church’s Living Waters ex-gay program during the ’80s, while another alleged that late pastor Frank Houston sexually abused him during therapy sessions. Houston, whose son, Brian, is now the church’s Senior Pastor, resigned from ministry in 2000 after confessing to an unrelated case of sexual abuse against a teenage boy. He passed away in 2004.
Hat-tips: SameSame.com.au, Box Turtle Bulletin
About Sy, I am happy for him. I really am. I use HIM because that is who he is. He found that he is a man. Great!
What does not please me is how every testimony that comes out of his mouth reflects that he had a terrible childhood, sexual brokeness and had to appease his homosexual ego to BECOME a transsexual.
My symphathies goes to him. But I would be more sympathetic if he stops claiming he was a transsexual, or even wear the ‘transsexual’ tag, when he is not.
He could not even separate his sexual orientation with his own gender identity, mixing them up in a combo of this cause this then this so I became this.
Excuse me, but transsexuals do not BECOME transsexuals. Heck, I can stop taking my medication now because I am made broke by the stigma and prejudice society here throws at me, and I can wear rough guy’s clothing 24/7 trying to talk tough and I would STILL be a transsexual.
If he watches the mirror and saw that he was ‘cheating’ his manhood then that is what HE is. Because back in my young adulthood I watched the mirror on how I cheated myself denying who I am as a girl.
I really wonder why these exgays and extranssexuals comes out with the equation that there must be some root causes that made them gays and transsexuals, and mixes them up based on personal assumptions. And how they claim they speak for us as if we all were raped during childhood, or have broken relationships with our parents, and so forth.
It was funny, but it is getting annoying to have 17 year old kids asking me after they went to an ex-gay meet in Malaysia, asking me whether my parents dressed me up as a girl when I was a child, or when I was molested by men, or whether my father abused me.
Whatever comes out of this Hillsong seminar cannot be positive, but will only paint an even murkier picture of who we are in the eyes of an already sexual understandingly confused state of the Christian church.
Thank you, EGW, for covering this. As transgendered people appear more and more prominently on society’s radar, there will no doubt be a corresponding rise in these kinds of events and in the prominence of “ex-trans” advocates in churches and para-church settings.
On a related note, I’ve noticed some change, albeit slight, in the structure and language used at Reality Resources, the “go-to” ex-trans ministry for Focus on the Family. For example, the claims of positive outcomes seem to have softened. The homepage now states, “We do not intend to imply that we possess some secret remedy for a lasting ‘cure.'” As recently as a year ago, the site included dozens of testimonies of people who had left transgendered identity and behavior behind; today there seem to be far fewer. Perhaps most significantly, the site no longer contains any mention I could find of Jerry Leach, the organization’s founder. Leach’s personal testimony, and that of his wife, were once the site’s centerpiece.
Any idea what’s going on at Reality Resources?
Off topic:
EGW still covering ex-gay ministries in Asia?
Speaking of ex-ing, the Senior Pastor of Church Of Our Saviour, Singapore, Derek Hong, which runs the Choices Ministry in Singapore affiliated with Exodus International, caused a furore last month when he preached two sets of sermons over two Sundays, one that is almost completely anti-gay, and one that is almost advertising Choices’s methods.
singapore pastor warns of ”gay agenda”
I wish to know too.
The ex-trans ministry in Singapore, Liberty League, had also been awfully quiet for the past one and half years since the infamous 100K paid up capital scandal broke.
you guys r lying to yourselves i feel sorry for you i’d rather burn in hell than live a lie
We are not confused with ourselves, and true to who we are. But we know people like you will forever be confused about us. Because to you we are against nature you think is in existence, the very anti-nature that people like you created because of prejudice, so that we hang our heads in shame for centuries.
But we know now it is okay to love ourselves just the way we are, and as nature calls us to show, we now have the strength to be out. You have a nice point here. I do, personally, rather die and burn in hell, than to live a lie.
Oh my! It seems the Church Of The Saviour post I made is not exactly far off part of the topic!
https://www.syrogers.com/biography/
Married since 1982, Sy and his family have resided in Asia for 7 years where he was one of 25 pastors with the dynamic Anglican ‘Church of Our Saviour’ in Singapore, and in the South Pacific for almost 4 years, where his ministry is part of Youth for Christ New Zealand.
https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/ourhistoryc87.php
1990 Frank Worthen goes to the Philippines and Sy Rogers goes to Singapore as missionaries from Exodus North America. Frank Worthen founds a ministry called Bagong Pag-Asa. Sy Rogers founds a ministry called Choices. While Sy was in Singapore, he travelled extensively throughout Australia, New Zealand and many countries in South America, building a vision for a world-wide ministry.
I attended the Sense and Sexuality seminar at Hillsong this week, and heard Sy speak. He didn’t mention his transgendered past at all (although I understand he did tell his life story at Hillsong services the prior week). He focussed more on how living life in this world can affect your sexuality and how to deal with the impact that this has on you.
Rather than it being a case of “Whatever comes out of this Hillsong seminar cannot be positive”, his message was extremely helpful and useful.
S Lack, that’s rather vague. Do you have any links to what was said or is there any audio available? I don’t dispute what you did or didn’t get from it at all, but it’s hard for us to discuss something which could be taken in many different ways.
I agree with David Roberts. It is something that can be taken many different ways.
I also attended Sense & Sexuality this week. It was awesome! Sy Rogers is an inspirational speaker! I am female and have never been confused about my sexuality but Sy still spoke to me about my abusive past and how I can look for a better tomorrow. Its more hope than ive ever been given in any church I’ve ever attended and I think that’s the more important issue. People need hope! Nothing in this world gives us that anymore and maybe that, more than anything seperates us from the animals, and allows us to want a tomorrow.
I know that’s what I want! :o) Love you all! Sorry we misunderstand ya’ll and hopefully one day we’ll all just get along!
xxoo
PS: Audio & DVD’s will be available from Hillsong Church no doubt :o)
I would like to know details of what is presented. I do not think anyone will have any problems with it, as long as it do not conform to the negative misinformation and miseducation practices of most exgay ministry members.
I also attended the Hillsong seminar tonight, and I was blow away by it. Sy was an amazing speaker, very inspirational. I am a straight woman, and have no history of abuse, sexual confusion or anything along those lines, but Sy’s message touched me tonight for sure!
It wasn’t at all about being ex-gay or anything like that, it was more along the lines of what S. Lack said: living in today’s world and dealing with our own battles with what life throws our way as we strive to become closer to God and to know Him better.
He talked a lot about the struggles we all face, whether you’re gay, straight, single or married, sexual struggles are constantly coming up in our lives. His message was to turn to God when we want to hide the most. Self control is of utmost importance, but there is a learning curve associated with it. As we strive to live a cleaner life (because we WANT to, not because we feel like we have to), we WILL struggle, and we WILL fail. It’s not like you become a Christian and suddenly you don’t desire sex anymore(from a single person’s perspective)… believe me, I know this struggle personally! It’s very hard, and I have failed already in my short journey so far. But his message was to turn to God in our journey, and in the midst of our struggles to submit all of our issues (the good, the bad, the dirty) to Him, and to look to Him for our strength to overcome, because we cannot do it on our own.
I know I’m rambling a bit, and there was so much more that he said. It was honestly one of those talks where I came away saying “Whoa- I’m gonna have to listen to that one again.” I don’t get that with a lot of things, but his message was very powerful. That’s just my two cents!
All I am hearing thus far is Sy Rogers glorified as a good speaker with a great talk on how to cope with sexual struggles in today’s environment, touching the lives of three people who posted here. My questions are: What exactly are the sexual struggles mentioned by him? Was homosexuality and transsexuals touched on and if yes, what exactly did he say? How is his message helpful and useful to oppressed Christian LGT community? How would gay, lesbian, and transsexual affirmed people benefit from this talk? Was there any connotation or mention whatsoever that homosexuals and transsexuals are lifestyle confused people or projected as people suffering in sexual addiction or struggling sexually? I believe everyone is alreadys sexually liberated, other than having sexuality by ex gay ministries defined upon us. So please do answer these questions so that we can properly analyse the situation.
from my perspective, he didn’t define sexual struggles per se, since that is something that each individual struggles with uniquely. for him personally, he did say that it was homosexual thoughts, temptations that were there when he was struggling to abandon that behavior. he did also mention his struggle with masturbation…
now i personally have my own thoughts on masturbation, i personally don’t see it as a bad thing, however my boyfriend does struggle with it, maybe that’s because i’m a -girl- but hey, some girls like it a lot too! ;). anyway, what i took from that (and i’m not saying that this is what sy said, i did take notes but i only took them in relevance to things that pertained to my situation-masturbation was not part of that) , wasn’t that it was the masturbation itself that was wrong, it was indulging in an act that was purely for self satisfaction… often times this act (may it be homosexual thought, straight thoughts, out of marriage fantasy, blah blah blah) is not limited to yourself.
a few of the notes that i did take, for those interested:
-integrity isn’t the absence of struggle, it’s choosing to do the right thing when you do struggle.
-admit and submit to God- rather than running away from God when you’re struggling, submit your struggle to him- “I want YOU more, God”
-submitting to a greater authority takes the power away from the other things that control you
-bring your dirt to the one who makes you clean
-the goal is self control- it is a skill developed in the face of repeated failure
-God doesn’t apologize for our sexuality- why should we? (now there’s one i know that will rile some feathers on this discussion, however there was probably more, i didn’t write it down- i liked that part :))
-Covet- to want what God has not given you YET-don’t consume others on the alter of your appetite (this is the one that really hit me- I am personally coveting my boyfriend, and sex with him, i want it, but it’s not mine yet- we are dragging each other into our own personal feeding frenzy when we are indulging… not ok by God)
-God gives us room to grow- the behaviour of a five year old is not that which is expected of an adult. As we grow in him more, more is expected of us, but he gives us this room to grow.
-Also on that note (and here he was talking about the way God was dealing with his sexual abuse 10 years into his ministry, rather than at the very beginning- and Sy was angry at God for this)… God’s healing takes TIME. he won’t rip us apart and deal with the down and dirty things that can break us, until we are ready… this won’t be on our time, it will be on his time, but his timing is always right, as Sy mentioned in retrospect, and i fully agree.
Then he went into this big long (and informative) thing about love and how it is in our nature to seek out love. he preferred to use the word “value” in place of love, because that’s what it really gets down to… am I valued? there were three things he touched on about what he thought love was:
1.Acceptance
2.Accountability
3. Affirmation
all in all i thought it was good, again, it was not directed toward an ex-GLTG group, it was addressed to a group that may be dealing with those issues, but more importantly it wasn’t defined what those issues were. i think that if you were there, you knew what your own issues were, there was no need to have someone else standing up there telling you what they were.
that is a bit (a lot :)) from my perspective… what i walked away with may not be what anyone else took away from it, so please don’t make the assumption that it wasn’t a good seminar, or that he’s just some glorified speaker. What he said touched me, and as a speaker i would thing that that is their goal, for at least one person to walk away from it and have been moved.
also, sorry if this doesn’t clear up any of the exact questions above, i suppose it’s one of those thing that you have to hear for yourself to take what YOU would take away from it… i wasn’t going to it from that standpoint, thus i didn’t take note of it from that perspective… sorry!
I think you answered a few of my questions already by this statement sara. I do not wish to question Sy’s sexual problems, that is his problem, I stress as a person I am that he claim he ex-ed, transsexuals would have no problems with him as long as he acknowledges that in his ‘sexual struggle’, he is still an individual by himself. I am going to only focus on transsexual issues here.
A lot of transsexuals do not come from ‘sexual brokeness’, and do not have problems with masturbation, and it is theoratically known that masturbation have ill effects on reassignment therapy. Therefore those who seriously and truthfully undergo hormone replacement do not masturbate. That is why his ‘testimony’ of his ‘transsexual life’ is highly doubtful.
Which is why I always find his ‘transsexual’ being to be the minor than the major. And coming from the minor, perhaps more in the essense of known autogeniphiliacs like Jerry Leach from Reality Resources, I do not appreaciate someone who claims to be transsexual or ex-ed but is essentially and technically not, to still preach about transsexualism as if he is an expert on it. And most of all, having their minority sciences represented as applicable to all.
On the “Sense & Sexuality”seminar by Hillsong, I would have no needs to comment on it if it is out of the scope of sexual attraction and orientation in general. As a transsexual, I am only concerned if what he says is miseducation and misinformation. But the comment above is already a blanketed statement that I believe most here know can never be valid.
Homosexuality is never a behaviour. If you believe that homosexual is nothing but thoughts, temptations and behaviour and closely associate it with masturbation, then you already have the wrong sets of mind imprinted in you, and instilled by yet another misinformation campaign. And in ignorance you just take it as the ‘truth’ without bothering to verify or validate it, and you excitedly consume it…
-God doesn’t apologize for our sexuality- why should we? (now there’s one i know that will rile some feathers on this discussion, however there was probably more, i didn’t write it down- i liked that part 🙂)
God do not care about good speakers or not. He will only care if we are good. And our goodness is in here (mind) and in here (heart). That is why I have no doubts he is a good speaker. But I doubt the other fruits that is coming down this tree, especially when the showcase of his bad fruits is just around 300 miles from here.
I shall leave it to the nice boys and girls here if they wish to comment further.
I don’t know a lot about Sy Rogers and have never heard him speak, but I can relate to him, if he was truly transexual. The place I diverge from feeling the way he does, as it is presented here, is that I am a male-to-female pre-op transexual and I am a born-again Christian.
I have been a believer in Jesus and the gospel since I was twelve years old. I knew I was transexual then and I still am transexual. I had no hole in my life that filled when I made the decision to follow Jesus that chased my transexuality away. Being transexual is who I am. I did have a life-changing experience, though, that changed my life forever.
It seems to me that many people define being transexual by the clothing they put on. I have put on dresses all of my life and I’ve put on boy clothing all of my life and in both cases I have always known I am a female with a slight body flaw. I don’t stop being who I am simply because I put on or take off an article of clothing.
Anyway, that’s what I had to say. I personally do not feel that Sy Rogers had ever been transexual because if he had been, changing his clothing or even making a life commitment to Jesus would have changed his gender identity.
I don’t exactly know what the debate here is about or why there is a debate about Sy or what he shared at the seminar.
Basically, bottomline, God loves all people. Whether you are a small offender or a serious offender in life. Choices made are either enjoyable or bearable.
Whether you are ex-gay, gay, lesbian, transexual, etc, you live according to your conviction and revelation.
So each to your own. There’s really nothing to debate about.
I like Sy, he’s definitely a very good speak, sincere, humourous. His life story is amazing and if his story is not applicable to you, it will to other people. If the shoe fits you, wear it and if it doesn’t, well, so be it.
What I do know in the Bible since most are christians here, God didn’t keep Sodom and Gomorrah in Old T.
Perhaps next time you should determine exactly “what the debate here is about” before deciding that gang rape, and a father who supports the gang rape of his daughters, is relevant to the discussion.
Just a thought… does anyone know what the sin of Gomorrah was?