There is an article in the Salt Lake Tribune about gay/straight married Mormons. These are relationships in which straight women knowingly marry gay men. While the article does not go far into the motivations of the women, it does discuss some of the reasons that these men decided to marry, a mixture of faith and genuine affection.
The interesting aspect of this article is that the men are not claiming to have become heterosexual. In fact, one of them went through ex-gay therapy without a change to his orientation.
Ben had been through therapy before and after his two-year mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That helped him resolve issues with his father and other men, but it didn’t diminish the strong attractions he felt for other men. He doubted those would ever go away. He felt strongly that God wanted him to marry anyway.
These men have chosen their faith over a life-partner consistent with their orientation. The admirable thing is that in doing so they were honest with their wives and do not appear to have unrealistic expectations about their own nature.
The article did note that these marriages are not often successful.
Idaho State University professor Ron Schow has studied LDS homosexuals. Of 136 he surveyed in 1994, 71 percent were returned missionaries and 36 had tried marriage. Only two of the 36 were still married.
“Many of these mixed heterosexual/homosexual marriages, even when they do not end in divorce, result in marriages in which there is no true intimacy nor a mutually nourishing relationship,” Schow reported.
However, it appears that each of them knows their odds and seem to have their eyes open to both the rewards and the limitations that are inherent in their type of relationship.
I wish the individuals profiled the very best in their lives. While religious and social rewards seldom prove adequate in the long run, I hope for the sake of their families that they will for these men and women and that they continue to find their relationships sustaining and their marriages fulfilling.
I read that rather long article the other day, expecting it to be full of the same old crap we are used to hearing, but I was surprised that the tone to be a little more “loving” (dare I use their favorite buzz-word) than I was used to. The other bios that follow the Christensen’s aren’t quite as positive and the quote down the page “I am surprised at how fulfilling my sex life is with my wife” made my eyes roll until I was on the floor searching for them.
I’m quite happy for him and what he and his family have found together but I have to wonder their purpose is to come public. As a gay Mormon man you don’t give an interview simply so you can “sleep better at night.”
So, what is the motivation? If it’s simply the same “Look queers it can be done!” rhetoric, all the Tribune has done is wrapped a maggoty piece of meat in a pretty bow hoping nobody will notice.
However, it appears that each of them knows their odds and seem to have their eyes open to both the rewards and the limitations that are inherent in their type of relationship.
And the rewards are……..??
This is emotional self-mutilation. Its not surprising that at some point one of the two is going to want out.
I agree with Taylor – this is just more of the “look queers it can be done” crap.
What are the Rewards? The possibility of existing in a culture so focused on the predominate religion prescribed morals that “fitting in” overrides all sexual and intimate desires.
The Mormon culture is steeped in peer-pressure and conformity that can affect every aspect of your life. Ask any non-Mormon (Gentile) in Utah/Idaho to relate how persuasive the Mormon culture affects every aspect of daily life. (To wit: Nothing happens on Sundays. News is always slanted to not offend the majority. There is abundant self-aggrandizing on the local TV stations. For any career-oriented Utahn you play by their set of rules in order to advance professionally. And even the temperature of the caffeine you drink can result in social ostracism. Etc. Etc.)
A couple of observations: The gay man will never have full acceptance in his clergy, in spite of him being in a hetero-style life. The Mormon Church will never have the hubby be a part of Boy Scouts, have any real ecclesiastical functionality or be anything more than a seat-warmer in the pew. Of course, he will still be expected to pay a full tithe.
Not much said of the woman side of these pseudo-couplings. The emotional and psychological self-mutilation (love that terminology gordo!) is happening to the wife as well. What woman would want to marry a gay guy? Her outlook on her role in life must be only two things: 1) a baby maker and 2) a maid? Both fit the profound subjugation of women the Mormon Church espouses from their pulpits.
How very sad. I pity them.
Unlike cowboy, we wouldn’t assume the women in the relationships do it only for those two reasons.
I can well imagine that these women — who are heterosexual afterall — do love these men, in all ways (and vice-versa, except for the awkward part about diminished sexual attraction type lovin’ etc that most straight couples would say is an important part of their relationshp.). Perhaps he’s a nice enough guy that this overwhelms The Issue. Perhaps she’s hoping things will change. Maybe she doesn’t care.
Don’t disagree that in some/many/most (take your pick) LDS circles this submissive wife thing is very popular. To the point of completely icky abuse, sometimes. But wouldn’t assume that either.
Because these women are straight, and assuming they have genuinely gone in with their eyes open, I’m very much less inclined to doubt their motivations than I would that of the guys.
Jeez, even Liza fell for this one once… urgh, no twice 🙂
Should add the the actual article itself is true to SLTrib tradition.
All else aside… do they imagine these three men invented this sort of behaviour sometime in the last few years? One would think some amazing breakthrough was being presented.
Nope. Some gay men have suffered, and made others suffer, these types of marriages since EVER.
I did do a bit of an eye boggle when I read:
“Concessions”??? I’m not even going to imagine what that entails. But I’m sure it’s waaaay beyond “Not tonight, I have a headache. Maybe tomorrow.” I wonder if, in such cases, LDS Family Services still advocates the use of pornography etc?
Cowboy, you said: “What woman would want to marry a gay guy?”
Are you kidding?? He’s probably a great listener, cares about his appearance, can faux-finish the powder room, make a mean creme brulee, and would rather just cuddle than badger her for sex all the time. That’s every straight woman’s dream husband right there. 😉
Some gay men have suffered, and made others suffer, these types of marriages since EVER.
But in the past there wasn’t a visible gay culture with which to compare. Even our patron saint, Oscar Wilde, was married with children. The choice to live true to oneself has only been availabe for a few years. The Mormons, like others on the right, are trying to recreate a past world.
Self-mutiliation – that’s what comes strongly to mind when I read the Ex-gay discussion group on Yahoo, or some of the ex-gay blogs. I wince at many things I read the same way I wince when I see a guy with extreme piercings.
I think most men can use their imagination rather than pornography in these situations. Although…they might have seen a movie (Brokeback Mountain, etc.), ogle a guy at the gym or sunny park, or the latest Men’s Health magazine cover…which help in forming the fantasies necessary.
One concession would have to be using a blindfold. I mean, for me, it would have to be a totally darkened room, heavy work gloves and lots and lots of duct tape. One peek and the fantasy is over.
I would say the majority of my gay associates are ex-married guys. When I asked about particulars, they unanimously said their fantasies during love-making were of men.
Women have a sense something is wrong, though. They know what passion really entails. Some of my ex-married friends say their wives went to have breast augmentations to see if that would help.
It didn’t.
My gay friends said they all paid for these surgeries out of their pockets. What a waste.
Cowbay… what on earth would you do with the duct tape???!!!
I mean, the rest I get. Still wouldn’t work for me, but where does the duct tape go? (Over his mouth to prevent him yelling out some guys name at an inappropriate moment?!)
And we can add that to the list of tragedy — breast augmentation. Perhaps we’re weird or something, but all our straight mates think their girls breasts are just fine as they are. (it’s the girls who worry about them, not their guys). Only one has had breast surgery, and that to balance things after surgery for cancer.
We know how badly her self-esteem was hit by the cancer surgery, hence the reason she got “Henry”, and I’m trying to imagine how equally the ex-wives of your friends must have also felt to get to the point where they thought they had to go and get larger breasts. And I’m trying to imagine the ex-husbands sitting there and having her go through that, and all without fessing up. Gawd what a mess.
Cowboy, if it’s not too much prying — and maybe you don’t know too — but how did the women feel after the shock or whatever wore off? Relieved? Felt “Ah ha, that explains things”? Or what?
I’m a long-time reader of this blog, but first time commenter, so here goes!
Myself, I am a lesbian. I realize that my chances of being able to feel sexual attraction to men are slim to none. However, I have almost no emotional interest in women, and just have no desire to ever persue a relationship with one. As a result, I’ve never actually acted on my desires. This isn’t from religious conviction (I’m a pretty staunch atheist) but just that it doesn’t feel “right” (emotionally, not morally) to be with a woman.
I have always had close friendships with men, and feel far more emotionally drawn to the opposite sex, though the sexual attraction doesn’t carry over. Though the chances are small, I would prefer to have a relationship with an asexual man someday. However, I don’t think I could deal with a guy who was only doing it out of some kind of religious guilt – it would put far too much of an emotional burden on a relationship.
Grantdale,
The duct tape remark was more in jest. I think your suggestion about over the mouth is a good one, though. I never thought about that. It might be good to use in ANY case…hetero or homo. (Thanks for the chuckle.)
As for reactions: It usually follows the usual phases: 1. hurt 2. denial 3. hurt (when denial wears off) 5. anger and then some of the ex-wives get real vindictive. It goes from quiet separation or amicable friendship, then to some irrational stalking or vandalizing personal property.
But, eventually the gay guy gets the full blame: for being deceitful. But most of the ex-wives are slapping their foreheads with the palm of their hands and exclaiming: “Duh!” “I should have known!”
In most cases, if the wife is mentally healthy they get married again and get on with their lives. Most find another man who will show them the real passion that was missing in their bedrooms. (That’s the part of Brokeback Mountain that is glossed over a bit. Alma goes on with her new husband and has a life of her own.)
And to Calavera,
In a most caring and loving way I have to say I feel for you. I spent a lot of time in a self-imposed celibate life. You can find a lonely state and focus all your energies only on your career/profession or hobbies but when the right person comes along…it’s wonderful. I was prepared to live my life out as a single, nearly virginal life and “bam!” life throws you a curve.
It’s part of growing up. It’s part of life.
All your comments, so far gang, are outstanding and very intelligent.
I’m not sure there is much that I can add, except if we look at the way straight people approach gay people, it’s not so much with eyes wide open, it’s with the firm belief they can ‘turn’ a gay person around.
If they are taught it’s possible and can happen, they will try it.
What I gleaned from reading that article is that it’s rare that anyone even really inquires as to the quality and quantity of anyone’s sex life between gays and non gays…or plain non gays.
Straight people aren’t above making things up in their own heads about what gay sex is.
So, I believe that this Salt Lake City paper is really trying to make a case that gay people SHOULD marry non gays and that they can manage just fine if they do.
However, the ex gay mantra is formerly ‘struggling’ with same sex attraction.
When it looks to me that the reality is struggling with trying to be heterosexual.
And dealing with heterosexuals controlling every aspect of gay life.
Even what kind of spouse they think you deserve to have.
And nobody can do that.
Didn’t arranged marriages go out of style?
In any case, if the orientation was appropriate, there wouldn’t be any struggle with orientation, one’s sex life (outside of some other clinical problem).
Attraction, diagnosed and dictated by the straight world, does demand unrealistic conformity from gay people.
And the results are never really as fully satisfactory than if people could follow their OWN hearts, as nature intended.
The New York Times has a different piece.
Sorry, reg. reqd.
Best advice:
Do not get involved with a married man. That goes double if both of you are married.
You will only end up hurting yourself.
A letter in the Salt Lake Tribune today (Wednesday) is in response to this article:
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_4153040
A summary:
Don’t trust the research statistics.
In his experience (not scientific) there a tons of mixed-marriages.
Sex is not such a big deal.
The writer completely ignores the wife and what ramifications it is for her to stay married to a gay man. It is like she is collateral damage and should learn to live with an asexual partner.
Small minded people these Utahns.
Mitch Freeman — who wrote that letter to the SLT — is a Morman exgay. He was at U.Utah, so I presume he’s still in his early 20’s; and therefore an experienced commentator on life’s little quirks.
The letter “I’m gay and I’m committed” is an example. (I understand the headline refers directly to his willingness to follow official LDS teaching, rather than spending some quality time in a state medical institution.)
His mindset is probably best illustrated by his comments on a suicide. In complete denial that it was those official LDS views and political activities that tipped the suicide, Mitch felt the person simply needed an extra dose of more of the same.
All together now — grit those teeth, clench those cheeks, whiten those knuckles…
cowboy,
I would agree with the writer – sex isn’t such a big deal – its not going to make or break the relationship. After 9 years, my partner and I still do the deed regularly, but its not the glue that holds us together. However, I could never share an emotional intimacy with a woman – it has nothing to do with the physical act.
These couples must be profoundly lonely, even if they’re having sex on a regular basis. That is the kind of soul-draining sexual activity which the ex-gays say is typical of gay sex – and here they’re forcing it on other people. Ironic.
Thanks grantdale. I certainly am clenching my cheeks with reading those links.
I’m amazed at reading where some ex-gays are satiated with being a celibate monk or living behind a hetero façade. These confused gays are saying: If THEY can do it then it must be possible for everyone else.
No. I think Mr. Freeman is an anomaly. A very rare bird. He is someone who is willing to sacrifice his temporal happiness in hope for supposedly eternal happiness. His faith and its dogma has sufficiently brainwashed him into believing he is wicked, unworthy and a lesser individual. He believes he is a cripple; born with some affliction. He believes his affliction is homosexuality and his self-flagellation is living a solitaire, unloving life.
The other option Mr. Freeman is suggesting is to live a pseudo-hetero life and bring with it the inevitable misery to a woman and possibly some children at having a fag as a husband/father.
Any religion that treats such a man as a cripple and asks that he must forsake his very being for some silly rule about sex and same-sex love is horribly mean-spirited and portends God as someone vitriolic and cruel.
His LDS religion has not formulated any answers for its gay members. I see only a condescending: “We feel for them” from the General Authorities (the Mormon lay clergy) who have not a clue about what it feels/means to be in the boots of a gay man. They are ignorant, unprofessional fools but with great power and influence.
Careful, Mr. Freeman. You may wake up one day and realize the folly in what you have prescribed for yourself.
And gordo,
Oh, I quite agree it’s not just the sex. It’s deeper than that. I’ll give you some examples:
Talking with some ex-married gay men I found out some things. When they went on business trips they did NOT pine away for their wives when they were away. They actually had more pining for their boyfriend they left behind. They admitted that they missed the men they left at home more than they missed their wives. It was NOT the sex they missed. It was actually loneliness and strong yearnings to be back in the company of their true love.
Watch how two people who are in love pass each other in the kitchen. They squeeze past each other in a tight spot and see how they look at each other…how they touch each other…it’s not the same with a gay man and a woman. Sure, you can love a woman…as a friend…any friend. But the core…the deeper core…it’s what love songs and the lyrics all say… it’s much deeper. Much deeper.
And I miss it.
Cowboy,
Please refrain from making personal attacks.
I considered removing parts or all of your post because you are ascribing ideas/motivations to Mr. Freeman that I don’t think can be easily supported.
Also I caution you against attacks on the Mormon Church. While I may disagree with the positions taken, I don’t think “ignorant unprofessional fools” is an accurate assessment of the leadership of the church.
Thank you.
Timothy Kincaid
I too read that article and am currently working on a television show that will speak to the mixed orientation family dynamic. I would love to speak to more families that are open enough to talk about it but I know that many families are afraid. If anyone happens to be interested I’d love to hear from them at abhelps@yahoo.com.