From Family News In Focus today:
Some think the ads [on gay marriage] having nothing to do with marriage. Alan Chambers is with Exodus International.
“I think their long-term goal is to portray themselves as equals, as people who are the same as heterosexuals, that their lifestyle is just as legitimate as heterosexuality.”
And, despite the money the gay cause has to throw around, Chambers says conservatives need to have a consistent response.“We have to fight to protect marriage because marriage is best for children. As Christians we need to respond in love, respond with respect towards people with different opinions from us, but be unwaivered in our pursuit to protect kids and protect marriage.”
That’s right, shame on those gays for thinking themselves equal citizens. God I’m glad we have Alan to keep us in our place.
That makes my slapping hand all restless.
That and the finger-shaking “I told you sos” the RR press is doing over the Goodridges’ split.
*twitch twitch twitch*
This is probably the most telling admission that the “ex-gay” leadership has made to date. It’s so significant, we need to use it as *the* mantra to energize our side of the aisle against FOTC. They’ve taken the gloves off. Now it’s our turn.
Ugh, I meant FOTF. (I wish there was an edit function on here.)
Don’t feel bad, honey–seems I just mistyped my own last name! And the half of it I was issued at birth, too, not the one I just got from my wife! *blush*
Well, since we know Alan stops by for a read every so often, I will address this right at him.
I am EQUAL!
There with that said, what else could I say…
I would never insult myself by stooping to be the equal of Alan Chambers. I have standards.
Actually it isn’t FOTF (Focus on the Family), it is FOTC (Focus on the CockCunt). I’m sorry to be blunt, but those breeders are simply more obsessed with gay peoples parts than most gay people I know. And this is coming from myself (a straight person). They think they speak for striaght people, they don’t. They think they speak for Christians (well how can they do that when they don’t know what it’s like to be humble in following Christ), so they don’t do that either. They speak for a narrow, narrow political band that is splitting Christianity for Republican purposes.
It’s not gays doing the splitting, its groups like the “Institute on Religion and Democracy” that are going into churches they don’t even belong to and causing rifts in the name of spreading conservative hate movements. They think they are Martin Freaking Luther, but they aren’t even ordained ministers. Just political hacks.
Saddle up, boys and girls, it’s time to take the Good name of our Blessed Jesus back!
Wow. Alan seems to be becoming more extreme as time goes on. Is it the influence of political groups around him? You know what–I am every much an equal as him. I pay my taxes, don’t commit crime, serve the community. I am a productive member of society–and I am not going around trying to limit or take away rights from others. I am not telling others that can only be happy or successful if they live in a narrow, limited way.
If Alan could only see that we do not care what he does or the fact that he is no longer gay. I could care a hoot’s butt about such things, but all he does is go around telling people that gays are not worthy of respect or dignity.
hard to know what to say, after reading a few of those comments…especially the one regarding body parts. Have to say that first and foremost I am a Christ Follower, not one that seeks the approval of others. What Christ teaches…now we maybe should get back to the basics.
I am fully aware of the sin within me…aka…I notice the plank in my own eye before the splinter in yours. What I think we all need is to get our priorities straight (sorry about that word, I know it offends some people).
We are so bent of getting after each other for how they choose to live. When there are millions of people around this globe…dying of aids, malnutrition and war. But hey…let’s just waste time and money fighting against each other.
When will it stop? Sure, there are those who stand up for the constitution of marriage between a man and a woman. Why? Because they believe in children. We have now a generation of children who are getting more and more messed up. Not because of FOTF, but because of the state of this world. Because so many people are just focused on “my rights”, “my pleasure”, and we are losing our children, to sex, drugs and apathy…and apathy my friends is the killer of many.
So why not get off the soap boxes…stop watching others and focus on ourselves, and how we can impact the world, change it, wipe out malnutrition, war, and those dying of aids. Get the focus off…who is badmouthing us and rather, serve each other in love and kindness. There is enough evil and crap out there without all of us making it worse. So we can use flying pigs or phelps signs…and awing hate and ridicule, or we can serve, give and love one another. I think if you want to take the Good name of our Blessed Jesus back…I am sure he would approve.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 26, 2006 10:22 PM
Thank you for participating, but please be careful with your language. Aside from the obvious “colorful metaphors”, we ask that you not use derogatory labels such as “breeders” when posting. Also, if you plan on posting again, it would be helpful for you to pick a nickname so people do not get your posts confused when reading or responding.
Miloman, sometimes you have to stand up for the rights of adults. For example, the right of an adult to choose the person she trusts her body and property to, without worrying that control of these things will default to, say, parents who are homophobic or only barely tolerant if she gets incapacitated.
Also, you *are* aware that some LGB people are parents of actual children, right?
I think “we” as advocates should demand an apology from Alan Chambers for calling us less than others. I think we should take this transcript to the papers. Write letters to the editor and demand he aplogize to us for such an “barbaric” comment.
These are the same types of comments the KKK used against blacks in the South. That they are somehow not as good as whites. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.
Alan was so “outspoken” against DL Fosters invoking the hitler stache, yet months later, Alan himself invokes the tactics of the KKK. He owes gays and lesbians and apology for such statements. maybe he was trying to say something else and didn’t articulate it well enough or something. EIther way and apology is in order. Write your paper today. Tell your neighbors what Exodus is saying and demand an apology from Mr. Chambers.
yes, aware, I have friends who are in the LGBT (don’t forget the T) who are parents of actual children. I have worked for years in the Education field and have worked along side of straight, GLBT families.
Homophobia…is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.
I do not have a fear, or aversion or do I disciminate against the homosexual community. i believe that everyone has the right to choose people who will care for them and their property, that does not fall just to our parents. That is why we have Wills as well as living wills and executors in place while we are healthy and of right mind.
Do I think it idea that children grow up with parents of one sex? No. Do I think that parents of children of the same sex are bad parents? No.
But Males and Females are created differently, both giving specific qualities to their children. I am not including here abusive parents either in the GLBT or the straight community, children in that situation need help.
Our children are being ripped apart by both groups, by divorce, neglect (in all area, but mostly in mentorship and calling out their individuality and recognition of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman).
Miloman,
Please visit http://www.colage.org. It is a group for the children of gays and lesbians. They will show you the science and more importantly their real life experiences that show they are happy and healthy kids raised by same sex couples.
Then come talk to me! email me, its all good…joebrummer@joebrummer.com
I would be happy to talk with you after you have met an seen the real children of gays and lesbians and see (as the WHO would say) The kids are Alright!
*sigh* Miloman, do these people *know* they’re your friends?
If so, do they know that you consider them just a little less equal than straights?
(“All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others”–Animal Farm)
Joe – why should Alan apologize for saying what he really believes? And frankly, I couldn’t care less for any apology of his, or any thing else he might offer up. He’s done us a favor by clearly showing the world the face of Exodus. No more of the hate the sin, love the sinner crap. He’s superior, we’re inferior.
I do not think them less than…they know my views on life…they accept that and I accept theirs. It is not a question about who is less than and they have no right to parent. They are not terrible parents. But my view is that children…and having worked in the Industry of Education, is that children are losing out on positive aspects of both a male and female role model at home…I believe that to be ideal. That is my view. I do not believe that GLBT parents are less than, they give love, are compassionate and give to their children.
I have seen and worked along side kids from the GLBT community as well as the straight community. There are messed up kids in both communities and there are great kids in both communities.
Boys, need to bond with men and be called out as men.
Girls need to bond with their mothers and be called out as women.
I do not see that in both communities.
I will check out the colage site…it sounds interesting, thanks Joe…great photographs by the way. I have been posting a few of mine at kennypwarkentin.blogspot.com
Milo — doubt very much that the children of gay parents are missing out on positive heterosexual domesticity. You assume they are raised in a bubble, or perhaps a compound in Idaho.
Such children are almost without exception surrounded by friends, family, teachers etc etc who are in heterosexual relationships. These couples come to dinner. Mind the children. Are at school. The family Xmas. The kid’s sports teams. Etc.
In other words, exactly what war widows have been doing for thousands of years.
In our experience gay parents go out of their way to ensure a broad range of role models. I think you’ll also find that is the case if you do go looking at some of the websites.
Of course this is too easily flipped around. Despite it being almost impossible to hide heterosexuals, and their relationships, from children… if one even wanted to do that … one could not eqaully say the same thing about those millions of children being raised without any gay or lesbian role models in their life.
Far from it. There are people who go bananas if there is so much as a gay character on TV, let alone a gay character on TV in a relationship. Those are people who make sure their children have no contact with gay couples, and even invent nasty “facts” about gay men and women to tell those kids.
Miloman, I respect your opinion, but there are a couple of important things here. You have a lot of assumptions such as boys need to bond with men and be called man. Most gender issues tend to be very superficial. If two gay men have a daughter, there are still women who can play a part in the upbringing of the daughter–grandmothers, aunts, friends, godparents. The idea that the family is an isolated community where all maturity comes is faulty.
I have a bigger problem though–there is an assumption that kids are in a mess and getting in a bigger mess all the time. While that tends to be a media perception, the stats don’t seem to bear it out. I am not at school right now, but when I go back, I will post stats about teenage pregnancy, juvenile crime, etc. Over the years, many situations with teenagers have lessened, and the 19 and 20 years that I teach are very mature and responsible for the most part (not to mention, many seem to be more religious than when I was in school).
Now this may seem selfish, but I am going to say that I do not care about the rights of kids. Let me clarify–the Supreme Court has always said that minors do not enjoy all the benefits of the Constitution. The Founders of the country probably did not even think about child rearing when drafting the Constitution. Why? Because children in the 17th,18th, 19th centuries were considered necessary burdens. They were seen as property in literature and history. In fact, the Puritans thought that children were evil and had to be trained and beat into behaviors. Look at novels like the Scarlet Letter, which provides a very good view of how children were perceived. The elevation of the child is a 20th century concept. Do children have greater rights than adults? No. Should the rights of children be placed first? No. We are turning into a baby society where anytime anything is discussed the question of children comes into place. However, there are places children should not be. Adults should be allowed to make their own decisions for their own families. Las Vegas was much better when it was an adult playground. It became bad when it became family-oriented. It is currently going back to the adults because that did not work–children don’t bring in the money.
Children should be protected. However, children are not the be all of society and I don’t believe that they should be the focal point of every discussion about gay people, who often have children and raise children in the best way they can. Call me selfish, but my rights and my place in society should not be determined by children.
Wow Grantdale–we were on the same wavelength. You said the same thing I did pretty much and we typed it at the same time.
I agree with you grant. There are many GLBT parents who give to their kids and surround them with positive role models.
I also agree that the flip side is true, that there are those who hide their kids from anything gay and that is sad as well.
Having lived in the gay community, I know that full well.
Okay, I do have a question though. We have gay pride parades…and I have been to several. I see a multitude of people there, children, youth, adults. What really got to me during the parades is seeing the “pride” of women with no shirt on, exposing themselves to children. I saw men in tight underwear or g strings, making suggestive dance moves with other men, in full view of children. Is that pride? Is that somehow showing them pride?
This is just a question that I have had for years. If someone has a good answer, please enlighten me.
Thanks
BTW There is no perfect way to raise children.
Miloman, my church when I was younger got mad at my parents and threatened them with disciplinary action. Why? Because my parents let me watch R-rated movies. I was very mature. I am happy my parents allowed me to see such films, and I knew they were fantasy. My parents made that decision and allowed me choices. If a parent takes a child to a gay pride parade, the parent has made a choice that it is appropriate for his or her child. Parents take children to Mardi Gras every year, and there is more there than in most pride parades.
I have never seen, except in the news, topless women at the parades. I have seen them at college parades and everywhere in France. That is not to say it does not happen, but such parades are oriented towards adults. Again, the parades are not designed with children in mind, and any child there will probably be there because the parent thought it was appropraite for that child. I have seen the guys in G-strings or skimpy clothing, but the same can be seen at the beach. Children, unless they fully understand, may ignore much of it and focus on rainbows and glitter. Again, if a parent does not want a child there, don’t take the child. I could have handled a parade like that at age 5 or 6 no problem. Isn’t it the society that makes things taboo that aren’t necessarily bad?
Aaron said:
Call me selfish, but my rights and my place in society should not be determined by children.
I don’t think I agree entirely with your comments about past attitudes toward children, at least not without more documentation than the Scarlet Letter. Certainly attitudes about the appropriate way to raise them have changed throughout the ages, but their value and importance in general runs deep. One need not be advanced in biology to understand how deeply ingrained the reproduction of the species is to humanity (or any living organism). If anything, I suspect that the value of living a life which does not involve the raising of children has only recently become normal and acceptable on a wide scale in our society.
I know it can be frustrating that one of the more vociferous rationalizations rained down on gay people is the perceived danger to children of a same sex family. The only data I have seen indicates that children of such households, all other things being equal, are as well adjusted as their counterparts. However, it would not be the end of the world even if this were not the case. Suppose that data came about which suggested that children of same sex parents had an extra hurdle to climb because of the lack of opposite sex parents. How many households are not the ideal? Wouldn’t a “not quite ideal” family be far better than what many children are faced with right now? How about the children in the foster system with no stable family to call their own at all?
One doesn’t need to demote the importance of children or society’s obvious responsibility to their welfare, in order to combat those who use an otherwise perfectly valid issue in an attempt to disparage gay people and curtail our rights.
David, children in literature from Hawthorne to Hardy are shown as dangerous and must be kept down. I teach English, and the study of children as evil was common and is a basic tenet in American Lit courses. The book Children in 19th Century Literature by Richard Millington is a good example of this. They were also seen as property more than anything else. Dickens is a prime example for British literature. Now the literature may not represent the reality, but I have never read or seen anything (and English is what I teach and have degrees in) that suggest otherwise. Child labour was common. Children died young. They were often sold for prostitution and other things. Spare the rod, spoil the child–common saying because children had to learn by punishment. They had to be tamed.
I see this said a lot, but mostly as quotes from people, so now I finally get the chance to ask somebody a very crucial question:
Like what? What are these unspecified, ethereal “qualities” that men give children? That women give children? That the children of gay parents do not have? List them. Or stop making that argument.
Aaron said:
Now the literature may not represent the reality…
I would tend to agree with that statement, but I don’t think the others are examples of the majority but of grim fringe practices or relatively brief periods in the history of certain regions. Certainly the prosperity and extra time afforded by the advances of past couple of centuries has enabled us to consider more carefully how to best raise children. Then again, we generally have more time to dwell on a lot of things than did our ancestors.
We can leave this to a study of history. My main point is that I don’t think you will accurately convey your position by negating (even in a small way) the importance of child welfare in this society at this time. As I said in my last post, I think I understand why you made the statement, but I don’t share the sentiment.
Skemono said:
What are these unspecified, ethereal “qualities” that men give children?
I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that children would receive a different imprint on their lives from their mother than from their father. I’m not sure this has ever been in question. The difference for a same sex couple is that this imprint comes from outside the immediate family, through relatives or close friends, and is reinforced by the love of the parents.
No, but that’s not nearly the same thing as saying that fathers give children one set of attributes and mothers give them a complementary set. The idea that mothers give something that fathers don’t, or can’t, and vice-versa, is at question.
Milo
Ok… so you’ve agreed your basic claim about children of gay parents is wrong… what on earth is the next question for???
I have no idea why some people behave outrageously in public. Some of them are probably just plain nuts. Others do it for attention. The list of reasons is probably as long as the list of names.
I also have no idea why you expect someone gay to be able to answer that question about another individual. This is not a club, and we don’t get together and vote in members that we approve of. But you’d know that, having lived “in the gay community”… right?
Can we make a simple suggestion: the next time you see such a person, why don’t you just go up and ask them?
Yes, Alan. I think I am equal to straight people. Yes, Alan. I think my 21-year relationship with Jim is just as good as, totally equal to, your marriage. I know you people worship at the altar of heterosexuality — and god knows I love my heterosexual friends — but my true friends, the ones that actually love me, are more interested in making sure Jimmy and I have a secure home than getting a paycheck from a right wing Christianist relgiopath like James Dobson.
SHOCKING! OUTRAGEOUS! IMAGINE SUCH A THING! THAT I WOULD DARE TO IMAGINE MYSELF TO BE JUST AS GOOD AS ANY STRAIGHT PERSON?? Watch this video below. Imagine this being you, Alan Chambers. No, don’t. What would be the point? If you did the right thing, you wouldn’t have a job anymore, would you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2nsGtd7y3c
Steve, thank you so, so, so much for linking to that ad. It was terrific. I wonder if others will *get* it?!?!
And Alan, I don’t “believe” I’m equal. I *know* it. You remember me when I had one last name and two partners, a woman and a man. You remember when the two roads diverged in my yellow wood and I had to make a painful, but ultimately healing, choice. You remember when I celebrated my marriage at Bridges Across the Divide.
I would have been the same person, with the same talents and strengths and weaknesses, had I chosen him instead of her. I would not have been any different or better. I would only have been treated differently and better.
And the hell of it is, I sincerely think that you and the people who are paying you know it as well as I do.
I think this is where the separation between church and state is so important. We want our relationships to be equal under the law, whether or not individuals or religious bodies think that they are equal in fact. For example, an interfaith marriage may not not be recognized by a synagogue in terms of membership privileges, a re-marriage might not be recognized as a marriage within a Catholic church, etc etc and I, for one, do not want to force religious bodies to recognize anything they do not want to recognize. But “under the law” is a whole ‘nother ball of wax.
I want my legal Canadian marriage to be as legally recognized as any other marriage by my government –which is, after all, all of us collectively — regardless of whether individuals or religious bodies want to make distinctions between my marriage and any other.
Jayelle said:
I sincerely think that you and the people who are paying you know it as well as I do.
In Alan’s case at least, I think you are correct, which makes these comments all the more sad. It is at the very least troubling when one’s salary dictates one’s opinion. The fact is that XGW represents a far greater range of viewpoints than any ex-gay organization I know of. It is only when our rights are infringed upon, or when lies are told to that end, that we truly object.
How long would Alan keep his job if he veered significantly from the party line? It’s really a vicious cycle feeding on itself. People with apparently limited skill sets and qualifications other than their rejection of their orientation and involvement with the Church, working for an organization which demands they support one narrow position to remain employed. Sometimes I almost feel sorry for them.
miloman,
As an ex-gay who is involved with Exodus, I know that you believe that the real issue is gender. That is, after all, the mantra of ex-gay ministries.
As such, you naturally think that men and women are different beings who bring different values, skills, and models to children. This is what you have been taught. But unlike Exodus, I don’t see women as foreign creatures so vastly different than men.
And although you may choose to adopt Exodus’ views of gender and gender-rolls, that does not entitle you to impose civil law on others based on those views.
Also, I think that you were a bit less than forthcoming when you wrote the following:
“Sure, there are those who stand up for the constitution of marriage between a man and a woman. Why? Because they believe in children.”
You and I both know that the reasons that Alan Chambers and the others at Exodus so adamantly oppose gay marriage are primarily religious in nature. You and I both know that he (and probably you) view gay people as sinners and beleive any accomodation of gay people living in accordance with their same sex attractions is enabling a sinful lifestyle.
To suggest that his concerns (and probably yours) are based solely – or even significantly – on the modeling of children is deceptive.
It seems to me that you also were not completely forthcoming when you said:
“We are so bent of getting after each other for how they choose to live.”
Unless you were going to Exodus’ convention to protest their priorities, its hard for me to see how you can say this. A huge portion of Exodus’ efforts are focused on getting after gay people because of how they live.
You and your opinions are very welcome here. But please don’t be deceptive.
I can’t help but feel so pissed at the assumptions Chambers (and miloman for that matter) make about gay parenting. And compared to what?
I don’t know how many times, and I don’t have to SAY it, it’s evident.
The ability to effectively parent, isn’t bestowed on groups. Nor are any parents effective and positive on their own, nor are circumstances static.
Good parents surround their young with role models of various types and backgrounds.
The most well adjusted children experience different and postive people and will grow into honorable adulthood understanding the real world better.
Heterosexuality isn’t a virtue, neither is fecundity and fertility.
I’m sick of those conditions being treated as such, and homosexuality a detriment no matter the situation and character of the gay person. Whether they are parents or not, beloved siblings or aunts and uncles or not.
Gay people ARE equal. The potential to do right, and good things definitely is.
What isn’t right or equal, is the straight world’s constant efforts to GET IN THE WAY of that good potential.
Because if straight people have to put up barriers to the efforts of gay people TO DO RIGHT, than they have no moral high ground whatsoever and are seriously placing unnecessary detriment on everyone.
Anyone who has something negative to say against gay parents, obviously doesn’t know any, or enough.
And therefore is in no place to judge.
Hi Steve! A very good friend of mine sent me that ad.
I noticed though…the young man asking for Megan’s hand, initially got permission.
But to take the ad further…what if you asked 260 million people for the right to marry, and they all said no?
If this young man had asked for Michael’s hand in marriage instead, as is happening now-would have knocked on the door, and gotten it slammed in his face.
This hits home for me this week.
I took off work Monday to take our second
son (five years old) to a doctor’s appointment
and again yesterday (Wednesday) for more
complicated reasons.
I spent all day with a five year old boy who
calls me Poppa. Late in the afternoon, my
husband picked up his older brother (nine)
from summer daycamp, and all four of us went out to a local park so the two brothers could ride
their bikes. Then home for dinner, and so to bed.
My husband and I have very different parenting styles, but are a united front in the cause of giving them the best upbringing we can. The idea that some people believe quite sincerely that he and I should not be legally married ‘for the sake of the children’ strikes me as an absurdity. In years to come, our children will learn the history of all this concern for their well-being.
We are trying to raise them to be the kind of people who will forgive Alan Chambers and his ilk for everything they’ve done.
I know that I should, and perhaps, someday, I will. But not today.
Regan,
A better question might be: What if he asked all of Michael’s family and Michael’s friends and Michael’s co-workers and Michael’s neighbors for permission to marry Michael and they all said “yes”. Why then should someone like Alan Chambers – who doesn’t even know Michael – get to veto that decision?
Very often those who know the gay couple completely support them. It is outsiders, who have never met the individuals and don’t have any informed opinion on what is best for their lives, who feel they have the right to interfere.
Is there a single heterosexual couple that would put their marriage up to veto by stangers? If not, they should listen to Christ’s admonition to treat others the way they want to be treated.
What I find most objectionable about Chambers’ comments is that he continues using the term “lifestyle”, which is a term that implies choice.
If I have said it once, I have said it 1000 times: I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY! IT IS A LIFE, NOT A LIFESTYLE!!
So what if Alan Chambers thinks that we are not equal to the rest of society? Let him keep talking like that. The more extreme he becomes, the less credible he is. Even raging homophobes may have a hard time with Chambers’ declaration of inequality. Certainly “middle America” won’t accept them easily.
Alan is a very sad human being.
I’m still trying to figure out why anyone should believe a man who apparently gave up his sexual/relationship orientation just to get a lucrative job.
as long as the kid is loved, does it really matter?
the irony is that in forcing “family values” they tear others apart by polarizing all of the zelous conservative christian parents and making gay children more miserable. many gay parents adopt, so whats the problem? we as a species have already overpopulated this planet, yet people like FOTF are practically screaming that the whole point of our existence is to make babies.
we’re people, not factories.
Robert,
Your post about the kids and forgiveness is awesome. It made my day to read it! I applaud your heart which appears to be huge and good.
Thank you.
Forgive as we want to be forgiven and know that we all must find a way to live together. Even if we disagree. Great post!
Joe
Miloman or anyone else reading this post. Can you please explain to me what ‘the children’ have to do with gay marriage. Both the N.Y. and Washington court decisions went against the rights of gays to marry based on ‘the possiblility of heterosexuals having children’. This makes no sense at all.
Allowing gays to marry will not change the environment for the children of hetero familes one bit. It would not change the number of children in hetero families one bit. And, gay families will exist whether they can marry or not.
Denying gays the ability to marry will not stop gays from having children and creating gay families. Do judges or anyone else actually think that gays make the decision to have children or create families based on the ability to legally marry?
The only children who are affected by gay marriage are the children in gay families who are not afforded the protections their families would have if their parents were allowed to legally marry.
So, allowing gays to marry would not change any child’s environment for the worse. But, allowing gays to marry would change the environment for the children of gays for the better.
And, if denying marriage to gays is all about ‘the children’, then shouldn’t childless gay couples be allowed to marry just as childless straight couples?
Lastly to those who like to suggest that gay couples can get the benefits of marriage by entering into multiple legal contracts and creating wills… It is simply not true. Yes, you can, at great expense, create many of the rights of marriage this way. But, not all of them. There is no legal document you can put together that will allow you to file your taxes as married. No legal document you can put together to allow you to claim social security survivor benefits, no legal document you can put together to protect you from having to testify against your gay partner in court etc, etc, etc…
Please anyone give me one example of something bad that will happen to any child if gays can marry. But, think it through carefully. Remember when you try to come up with something gays and gay families do exist and will continue to exist whether they can marry or not.
It always boils down to the same thing: Follow the money. You can bet your bottom dollar Chambers is being threatened with losing his lucrative position if he doesn’t say these things.
You can bet your bottom dollar Chambers is being threatened with losing his lucrative position if he doesn’t say these things.
The sad thing is that the job isn’t lucrative. According to Exodus’ most recent public filing with the IRS Alan was paid $56,032.
https://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2004/521/413/2004-521413470-01ba7ff5-9.pdf
See page 17 of 20
Gordo, if someone was going to pay me 56k a year to talk about how everyone should be trangender like me I’d consider it pretty lucrative. My income last year was less than 7k.
Randi,
How about if they paid you $56K to say that transgenders were less than equal citizens from whom society should protect marriage and children?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2006 01:37 PM
I think I’d stick with living in poverty.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 29, 2006 01:37 PM
It would be very much appreciated if everyone would use a standard nickname consistantly while posting. These “anonymous” posts are getting more frequent result in confusion. Thank you.
okay, have been busy and have not had a chance to read the posts. I have to say, they have been good. I appreciate the different view points (okay most of them are the same). I do appreciate them.
I will comment that having gone to University and studied developement of specific genders, there is a scientic proof that women and men are different.
This does not mean that gay or lesbian couples raising children is wrong and horrific…there are lots of kids being raised in crappy homes and those being heterosexual homes.
Forgive me for coming across harsh. That was not my intention and I guess, I am just wanting to ask questions and should stick with that instead of voicing the thoughts in my head. But it is great to have an open dialogue to speak and to question and to hear different opinions.
What is everyones defenition of diversity?
Sorry if I offended people with my previous comments.