For Valentine’s Day, the religious extremists have ratcheted up their barrage of hatred.
Linda Harvey of Mission America, a rabid anti-gay organization, has a new story about 13 year old Josh, a fictional compilation of what she envisions to be a vulnerable youth susceptible to the homosexual agenda. This listing of imaginary horrors can be found on the website of Concerned Women for America (Robert Knight’s organization).
In it, Harvey argues (without any substantiation whatsoever) that homosexuality is a learned and avoidable condition:
Can people, children in this case, become homosexuals by exposure to certain ideas and behavior? In other words, can a person who would not otherwise become homosexual start the behavior, come to prefer it and form a habitual addiction?
Can a society create more homosexuals? The answer quite clearly is yes. That is how current homosexuals, in fact, came to be.
Although every reputable mental health organization has stated that sexual orientation is determined very early in life, Harvey seems to claim that homosexuality is caused in teenage years or later:
People, especially the young, can be seduced into homosexual behavior and have their identities molded around the homosexual lifestyle through a combination of persuasion and circumstances that may include the following:
• being convinced homosexuality is acceptable;
• reading or viewing explicit homosexual pornography;
• having a close relationship with a peer who is practicing homosexuality;
• admiring an older teacher or mentor who is homosexual;
• attending homosexual social venues (a “gay” club, bar, church youth group);
• being homosexually molested;
• having parents who espouse homosexuality or engage in homosexual activism;
• lacking strong ties to a church that remains faithful to the historic Christian faith, and hostility toward traditional views.
In direct conflict to the life experiences of many people on this site, myself included, Harvey makes a most bizarre claim:
When children grow up trusting God as the Designer of masculinity and femininity, and if they are not sexually molested or have their innocence assaulted by other traumatic events, their feelings will be channeled normally toward heterosexual sex within marriage as an obvious and desirable goal. The truth imparted by the Holy Spirit in young believers hinders the harmful absorption of the culture’s deceit about homosexuality as well as other temptations.
Yes. Harvey actually claims that if you go to the right church your child won’t be gay.
What is disturbing is that there is a whole segment of society that isn’t horrified by the unsubstantiated and illogical lies spouted forth by Harvey and her fellow anti-gay activists. The CWA will print Harvey’s claim that going to a gay bar makes you gay and at the same time they print some ex-gay minister admitting that sexual orientation isn’t chosen but is caused by a distant father during adolescence. It doesn’t have to be consistent or make sense. All that is required is that it is anti-gay, and the more scandalous and hateful, the better.
Oh, and what happens to fictional Josh? He gets HIV, infects several teenagers, and dies in his 40’s. And lest you think this is presented in the spirit of “loving the sinner”, Harvey entitled her venom Fairy Tales Don’t Come True.
Yeah, that’s Christ-like, Linda.
the more outlandish she gets the more people will see her the way they see Fred Phelps. The just stop taking her seriously. Thank god for that one!
I can only hope since we know she wont get any better at her craziness, we can pray she get so bad, people stop taking her seriously.
“Josh has no significant barriers to exploring homosexuality, because he has never heard or read an opposing viewpoint.”
Followed by. . .
“When people have views supporting homosexuality, they should not be involved with youth in any way, period.”
Wait, so we DO want kids to get more than one viewpoint, or we DON’T?
Besides, what kid in America has NEVER heard the idea that homosexuality is bad or wrong?
At any rate, I take great personal offense at her idea that growing up in the right environment will cause you not to be gay. I am sure I am not the only one here who can attest to this, but I had exactly the upbringing Linda says will cause, “The truth [to be] imparted by the Holy Spirit in young believers. . .” I can understand, almost, how she could develop some of these ideas–but how do these people manage to hide themselves in a vacuum that ignores the thousands of people who have taken up the burden they placed on our shoulders and failed to carry it?
Cyrano, your comments brought something to my attention that I didn’t address. Harvey wants to forbit gay people from any contact with children. She also wants to stop contact with people who “have views supporting homosexuality”.
In other words Harvey clearly thinks pro-gay people should not be allowed to teach school, adopt, be a minister, perform children’s theater, etc.
I wonder if she supports taking the children of gay parents away from them? I wonder if she supports taking the children of pro-gay heterosexual parents away from them?
That is what her statement says:
“When people have views supporting homosexuality, they should not be involved with youth in any way, period”.
Has she not heard real kids talk or listened to lyrics lately?! Good night!
Cyrano, you saw through the trick–she doesn’t want pluralism, only anti-gay sentiments allowed to rain down on kids’ heads unopposed. Her standard would also shut out a lot of straight teachers, counselors, etc.
Well. She’s crazy.
Whenever someone mentions the “destructive outcomes from homosexuality,” I can’t help but think of Jason Kuznicki’s response to an ex-gay recruitment e-mail.
Wow. Amazing how she managed to fit so many stereotypes and untruths into one ‘Special Report.’
My kids are 15 and 13 – and I’m glad they fit the mold of tolerant, gay-positive kids Harvey describes with such despair.
I took notice of the remarks about how kids in the ‘right’ churches are less likely to grow up gay – as you noted, Timothy. It made me think of an online article titled “Accepting What Cannot be Changed” by David Myers, an evangelical psychology professor at Hope College in Michigan. One of his arguments for opposing the evangelical opposition of homosexuality is his conclusion that kids from conservative Christian homes and churches are just as likely to be gay as anyone else. My experience and observations (as unscientific as they may be) would cause me to agree with Myers. I’d like to see if Harvey has any evidence to back up her statements on that point.
I’d like to see if Harvey has any evidence to back up her statements on that point.
Evidence? Who needs evidence when you’re doing ‘The Lord’s Work’? If the facts don’t back up her preconceived conclusions then they were obviously planted there by the devil.
Good Lord, her ignorance is astounding. It’s people like that who make me embarrassed to call myself a Christian.
Wow, since she couldn’t come up with a real ‘Josh’, she just made one up?
Ye Gods.
Her own wild fantasy and fairy tales hopefully will hoist her on her own pitard.
It’s just that for everything out of her mouth, you get a J. Robida, a teenager who goes on a terrible rampage and leaves so much devastation in his wake.
From her mouth to his ears….
And she’ll sit up on her high seat and try and deny her own words injected into impressionable youth as well.
I thought I could no longer be shocked by the writings and rantings of the “pro-family” movement, but now I am. It is bad enough for Ms. Harvey to spout her unsubstantiated b-s, but to argue that no one who is gay, or supports gay rights, should be around children is simply chilling.
I wonder if she supports taking the children of gay parents away from them? I wonder if she supports taking the children of pro-gay heterosexual parents away from them?
Well if the answer to question 2 is “yes,” and one could certainly jump to that conclusion from her writing, then the state would be correct in taking my sister’s kids from her, because she loves and supports me, not to mention using me as a sitter on a number of occassions. Hell, I even once slept in the same “bed” as one of my nephews (okay, it was a set of couches in the family room, and my sister simply didn’t want to move him and wake him up), so I guess I must be a molester, too!
For that matter, so many of my sister and my friends will have to have their children removed from them, because they all love and support me as well.
Just for the record: I was raised in an intact home, with a loving mother and father (sure, they had problems, but what marriage doesn’t), and we had dinner as a family nearly every night. I went to Catholic church weekly, as well as CCD classes when I was in public school and regular religion classes at my Catholic high school. The only bad habit my older sister ever passed on to me was cigarette smoking (I quit when I was 18).
More importantly, my parents suspected I might be gay when I was 5 or 6, and actively worked to “change” me (although the work was subtle), for the rest of the my childhood and teenage years. I was certainly exposed to some positive gay role models (my great-uncle and his partner), as well as one lousy one (my cousin, who died at 40 from a life of alcohol and drug abuse – of course, his older, straight, brother is on a list for a liver transplant because of the same problem), but at no point did the priests, nuns, teachers, or other adults in my life tell me being gay was “okay.” My friends were very clear about their homophobia, and my high school was known to expel kids who were revealed to be gay.
Yet, I’m still a big ole nancyboy, fairy, fag, whatever it is you want to call it. And my sister, raised in the EXACT SAME ENVIRONMENT, is happily married for more than 13 years and has two wonderful children (although she does have a brief lesbian fling in her past – classic LUG behavior – “Lesbian until Graduation”). Like most of those who Harvey mentions are “experimenting” with same sex attraction, her natural heterosexuality was to powerful to overcome.
I have to agree that soon her rantings will go the way of Fred Phelps as even Conservatives realize how off-base and mean-spirited they are.
But, for now I thought this was a very good point, Timothy, “What is disturbing is that there is a whole segment of society that isn’t horrified by the unsubstantiated and illogical lies spouted forth by Harvey and her fellow anti-gay activists.”
Every day people generally just accept what they are told at face value, especially from self-proclaimed Christians who present themselves as moral, honest, etc. If only we could have a louder voice to show the real truth.
I grew up in a conservative, Southern Baptist family in Northeast Georgia.
I attended church almost every Sunday. My grandfather and uncle were deacons in the church. The sunday school teacher was my second cousin. Many members of my extended family attended the same church.
So you can imagine that I was never really around any “pro-homosexual” people and that I never heard anything good about homosexuality.
Yet, here I am – an openly gay man, a Liberal, a secularist, and yes, a patriot.
Groups like these “concerned” women and other so-called “family” organizations just don’t want to accept reality – homosexuality is a deeply ingrained part of one’s personality, that may or may not be affected by environment, that probably has a genetic component, and is a natural expression of sexuality. Homosexuality exists in almost all vertebrate species, and humans are no exception.
What made life so difficult for me was not that I am gay, but rather that I had to struggle to deal with my homosexual orientation with no help or support whatsoever from my church or my family. If CWA’s assertion that homosexuality is “contagious” is true, then I am definitely the exception to the rule. I didn’t know another openly gay person until my freshman year at college. When I came out at 18 I was one of two openly gay people on campus. Being gay has never been easy – there is so much pressure to be straight – yet despite every effort I made in my youth to change my sexuality, to conform with the heterosexual norm, absolutely failed. I finally resorted to praying for God to either take it away from me or to help me accept it. Fortunately for me, I was able to accept it and embrace it as a core part of who and what I am. I am very happy as a gay man (even if I am terminally single) and would not ever want to live a heterosexual life.
Besides, who would you rather spend eternity with? The gals at CWA and their ilk, or the circuit party boys, drag queens and other notables that are part of our culture?
The article was one of the most bizarre things I have ever read. It reminds me of the anti-semetic writings and films prior to WWII. Sadly, I know from my adult students that people will believe almost anything as long as it is in print. Students frequently bring me the Onion Harry Potter article that says children are turning into Satanists. Students want to believe it so much that when I say it is fake, they will say I am lying and pro-Harry Potter.
How the hell did Josh never hear or read an opposing view? No school that I know of has ever taught gay is ok. The only thing I have ever encountered is that it is bad to call names and beat up kids. I love how Josh would have met an older gay man who would lead him into “the lifestyle.”
The aftermath is so foreign to me as to be funny, especially the domestic violence thing and how he has relationships with teenage boys and infects them with HIV.
None of this even comes close to my life. I never knew what the term gay was until I was 12 (I know because a kid used it against me, so I asked my mother what it meant). Prior to that, my parents were told in kindergarten that I was gay and had to be changed. I went through all kinds of bizarre treatments and forced masculine play. Nothing worked. I was attracted to males and knew it early. I was never molested, but I knew intuitively what gay sex was–I never once thought about straight sex. I was not indoctrinated, never saw a porn, never knew anyone gay (the first gay character I ever saw was in An Early Frost–so I would have been a teenager by that point). I never messed around with other males, yet I knew early on that it was males that I was attracted to. I never felt slighted by females. I was in a very strict church that believed homosexuality was wrong. I don’t really care if it was environment or genetics–it was part of my make-up and personality, and something that was not taught. I doubt the writer would ever listen to my story because she seems to think that almost all homosexuals fall into these patterns of hers. I don’t.
One thing though about Harvey’s article that I somewhat think is a problem for the gay community. I don’t think we respond well as a whole to the issue of the Bible and homosexuality. I hear all the Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t buy that for a second, and neither will many Christians who have a problem with homosexuality. Fundamentalist churches in America are doing great because they are very straight forward about the Bible: it is as it says. Churches with more liberal views of the Bible don’t do well and are dying.
Even though I was devout when I was young, I am a very agnostic personality today, but I have checked out different churces. The liberal view churches are weak and problematic. They are terrible. While I admire the MCC leaders, their church is so ineffectual that it is an empty exercise. I have been to three different MCC churces and they seem like a mutt in that they are a mixture of everything, yet I felt awful afterward. There were hugging sessions, plant and animal blessing, a mixture of catholicism (or English church) and I don’t know what, no rules or structure, and everyone seems to have dated everyone else once. A man came up to me (even though my boyfriend was there) and asked for me to masturbate him. My BF mentioned it to the minister who said everyone has different ways to love. I really don’t think the gay community will ever reach many Christians if predominately gay churches are like this. I am sorry if anyone is offended–I respect the principles of MCC, but I don’t see how we can reach some people if they feel churches like it are not legit. What do people think? What can we do to reach the more fundementalist Christian?
Aaron”
“I hear all the Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t buy that for a second, and neither will many Christians who have a problem with homosexuality.”
Sorry, but there’s not much anyone can say to a fundamentalist (be they Christian or agnostic) who knows the answer regardless of how much evidence is shown otherwise. The Scriptural evidence of Sodom’s destruction for inhospitality is overwhelmingly more convincing than for homosexuality. But if that doesn’t matter to you, or Dr. Dobson for that matter, there’s little I can say.
“Fundamentalist churches in America are doing great because they are very straight forward about the Bible: it is as it says. Churches with more liberal views of the Bible don’t do well and are dying.”
I hear that claimed by the fundies, but I’m not sure it’s true. I know that the total membership of the UCC increased after it took a proactive stance in favor of gay couples. And it wasn’t only gay people that came; there were straight folks who believe that their understanding of God required that they act within a social justice framework who found a church home.
“Can a society create more homosexuals? The answer quite clearly is yes. That is how current homosexuals, in fact, came to be.”
It sounds like the tagline for a tv show…
The homosexuals were created by society.
They rebelled.
They evolved.
They look and feel human.
Some even believe they are human.
There are many recruiters.
And they have a plan…
I’m reminded…So the argument goes among these circles:
Could there not be a clearer indication of grotesque and distorted fear than that laid out in Harvey’s piece? As Boo has put it, we are made to sound like an alien invasion; here to doom the planet for eternity.To imagine (and believe) such as Harvey does is fear.To repeat those baseless lies is hate.I’d have thought that to any committed Christian merely to believe that someone’s not going to heaven would be “reason” enough. But the faith of people like Harvey is so weak, and she thinks that her faith is so unconvincing to others that she turns instead to fabricating earthly “facts” to bolster her campaign.—-Boo — Harvey also reminded me of the old joke:
The religious right organizations need to get some help. I am 16 and gay (not out though), and their points on “crafting a homosexual” make no sense to me. I live and work on a farm, I work several hours a day, I am more masculine then most str8t guys at my school. I live in a devote conservative Christian Reformed family. I barly watch TV and growing up, I never saw anything gay at all. None of my friends are practicing homosexuals, I don’t know any openly gay people. I was never molested or sexualy abused, my family is very conservative and they do not accept homosexuality which makes things hard for me. So in conclusion, I do not understand how these people believe gay people are indoctrinated into homosexuality.
CaliMan- I doubt they actually believe it deep down, they just know if they’re going to be successful in presenting the gay rights movement as a major threat to America, and thus keep the contributions rolling in by stirring up fear, they have to keep conjuring up the image of depraved homosexuals seducing kids. It sells.
Hi CaliMan, and welcomeSome people believe that we are indoctrinated or recruited because they will not accept what we already know — it’s just the way we’re made. Nobody recruits us, we just slowly become aware of ourselves. (Just as everyone else does.)As you’ve already said — some people just “do not accept”. They need to believe we have been damaged in some way or their own ways of behaving and speaking about us would simply seem cruel.And there’s no need to rush anything with your parents, even if it seems rough at the moment. Take your own time. You’ve got lots :)Best wishes anyway.
CaliMan,
Welcome. I’m glad to have your perspective.
If I have any advice to give about your family it would be this: take things slow (like grantdale advised) and don’t worry too much. Most families – regardless of their beliefs – love their kids and though it may take them some time, love usually trumps dogma.
Also, one of the unfortunate things about anti-gay parents is that a son or daughter can make the mistake of assuming that if a parent is so wrong about sexual orientation, that means you can’t really trust anything they or their religion say. Try not to make that mistake. Most of what your parents will teach you will be of value. Try to remember and respect that and realize that they love you and are only trying to do what they think is best for you.
And finally, don’t think that just because you are gay that means you have to act or think any certain way. Be who you are and try to realize that gay people come in as many varieties as there are people. Probably quite a few other guys and girls at your school are gay and there’s just no way to know. Don’t rush to become sexual too soon, it really is better to wait until you find someone you love. Don’t hold yourself to any lower expectation than you would of anyone else and try to live in a way that is respectable and then, respect yourself.
You seem pretty together so you may not need any advice at all from us, so if not, just realize that there are a lot of people rooting for you and your happiness and – speaking for everyone here – we certainly are among them.
Thanks for the replies all. I know not to come out right away to my folks now, I am going to wait tell after college to break it to them since I want college to get paid for. I don’t want to get sexual right away, I personally want a good relationship before I even consider having sex and that will more then likly be in my 20’s, I hope (I’m kinda old fashioned on the inside lol).But this summer, my church had some Exodus International pamphlets and stuff like in the fellowship hall. I was naturally intrigued and I went to the websites and stuff like that to see what they were all about. All that ex gay junk and far religious right crap got me a little depressed, I mean they think gay people want to hurt kids and stuff like that. I found that offensive and annoying. So when I found this site, it was a real welcome since I personally liked the jokes about the alleged “ex gays” in the articles. And all criticism on Sthephen Bennett is good, seriously I think that guy is still gay since his teeth just scream gay to me sincce they are too clean and shinny but that is my opinion.
hey CaliMan,
Props to you. It’s good to hear that you’re managing your situation and come terms with your sexial orientation. ^_^
Although I’m saddened that your family is unlikely to accept you and even your future mate for who you trully are. Perhaps you’ll manage to form your own family that accepts you for who you are.
Also, it’s a very good idea that you’re reserving sex for that special guy in your life nd taking your time in a future relationship. There are many low lifes that will want take advantage of you, but there are also great guys out there to meet.
Like Penthouse Magazine magnate Bob Guccione (no, I’m not kidding) advised:
“You know, sexual issues are more complex today than ever before. That’s why it’s crucial for young people like yourself, not to enter any sexual relationship without first building a foundation of mutual love and respect. Remember, the most sensual parts of the body, are the mind and the heart.”
However, I hope that you do not restrict yourself on going out, dating new peeps or even discovering a special someone before you graduate from university. When I used to date other guys, my primary reason was to meet people and learn from their perspectives rather than starting a relationship, since relationships can only come naturally.
Anyhow, that’s pretty much what I have to say. Hope I wasn’t intrusive or anything.
Take care.
Rob
FYI: Linda Harvey is the ‘special guest’ on Straight Talk Radio w/Stephen Bennett on yesterday’s (2/24) broadcast, with Part 2 scheduled for Monday.