Southern gospel singer Kirk Talley has the backing of his “restoration team” to resume a concert/ministry, according to an e-mail newsletter from the singer dated Oct. 6.
The restoration team’s announcement is vague about both the team’s goals and requirements and Talley’s progress.
As XGW has said before, Talley is entitled to some privacy. But the team decided to go public, and its public statements are entitled to scrutiny: The team declines to state whether Talley considers himself gay, exgay, or same-sex-attracted. The team declines to state what specific progress has been achieved. And the team declines to state any goal.
Specifically, the team says, “Kirk has met all the requirements presented by the team.” No requirements are disclosed.
The team says, “We have heard him share his testimony and was impressed with his truthfulness and his willingness to be transparent.” But while Talley may have been frank with the team, the team itself has been less transparent.
The team was originally led by Exodus exgay member minister Roy A. Blankenship. His departure from the team is unexplained. In fact, not one of the current team members is an Exodus-listed exgay minister — or, for that matter, a reputable mainstream therapist. Instead, the team members are affiliated with three churches possessing no apparent expertise in matters of sexual orientation.
The team concludes: “We ask you to continue to pray for Kirk as he continues his counseling and as he resumes his music ministry. We believe his testimony can be used to encourage others in their journey with Christ.”
Fair enough. But secrecy about sexuality may hinder Talley in “restoring” faith among his antigay former fans. The extortion crisis presented an opportunity for Talley to educate the squeamish Southern gospel music scene about sexual struggles; he has thus far forfeited that opportunity.
Southern gospel music blog averyfineline.com comments on Talley’s difficult position; his sister-in-law’s assent to an antigay slur at the Fan Awards; and fan discussions of homosexuality that may be fueled by Talley’s speedy return.
I’m going to jump to conclusions that we’re all thinking but are really only appropriate for comments here since it’s pure speculation.
Sounds to me like he’s still plagued with same-sex attractions and has pacified big-brother by trying to be celibate for the time being.
I can’t imagine anyone outside his inner circle actually knows for sure what’s going on inside him. I can understand placating Big Brother, having been in similar situations. Celibacy, of course, is always an option, but it’s only viable when it is a personal choice (as it is with me), not when one tries to be celibate for someone else’s approval. It’s like telling someone every day “don’t think of pink penguins… don’t think of pink penguins”, and that is exactly what he will think about, trying desparately hard not to think about the thing he’s not supposed to think about, and consciously reminding himself of the thing he’s not supposed to think about. It’s a vicious cycle. Easier if the individual makes a conscious choice to be celibate, after which the attractions and temptations are far easier to turn away. The attractions and interests are still there, and I still admire a good looking man, but I have chosen celibacy for my life so there’s no impulse to pursue something else. But, celibacy is not the only viable option, nor is it an effective option for everyone. If Kirk can do it, great; if not, I hope he finds himself in an environment of real support.
After reading Kirk Talley’s letters I really feel sorry for him. Everyone knows that statiscally this re-programming doesn’t work and no matter how much he prays; or how many people he has praying for him, he can’t make something genetic go away.
The letters reflect a man beset by craziness. This “treatment” for homosexuality may send him over the edge. Once he finally accepts being gay God will bless him in ways never seen to him before. Unfortunately the fundamental pentacostals see it one way, their way .. or it’s the highway. If Talley goes bonafide crazy and harms himself, his restoration team will be fully responsible. Jesus never meant for it to be this way.
I agree. It’s sad that Kirk Talley has not chosen to come out and say that you can be gay and also sing southern gospel music. Instead he and his advisors have ignored the subject. He could be an example and inspiration to many people who are experiencing his same struggle.
A agree with Jim and Scott. I think Talley is Baptist, not Pentecostal, so he may have it somewhat easier. Ideally, he could be himself, and openly gay, and still remain in the southern gospel music industry along with all the other gay and lesbian folks there. But because of his name, and the extortion, he can’t do that just yet. Time will come when he can be himself more fully, gay or otherwise, after the current political self-righteous bullcrap dies down. At least, one can hope.
It’s not clear to me whether Talley is really undergoing any treatment or counseling. If he is, where are the exgay minister/counselors? Why are they no longer a part of the restoration team? Or is their involvement a secret?
Scott, I wouldn’t say that sexual orientation is genetic, but I agree that it seems to be well-integrated into the psyche of most people. Perhaps it is cases where orientation is not well-integrated, that we see people (regardless of their gender attraction) swept away by addictive/compulsive behavior.
I know that Kirk recently spent a week in Hawaii at a noni juice conference. (he sells this on his website) Supposedly it was a spur of the moment decision and his expenses were paid by the juice manufacturer. I found it surprising that his advisors/counselors would want him to spend a week in Waikiki (alone) unless he has indeed been pronounced cured from same-sex attraction.
Ray | October 8, 2004 02:52 PM
>But because of his name, and the extortion, he can’t do that just yet.
I had never heard of him before, so I can’t opine regarding his name, but it strikes me that the attempted extortion would suggest just the opposite. One can’t be a victim of extortion if one is out.
Hmmm… I dunno… seems if he were really “out”, there’s be nothing for someone to blackmail him with. The threat was that without payment, Farmer would tell Talley’s record producer (or something similar, I don’t recall the detail). People can be having encounters in secret while not being ‘out’ to those in their social or professional circles. He has been a ‘big name’ in the southern gospel field for 20+ years, won awards, written for many of the other ‘big names’ — the threat of a public outing was a big, career-threatening issue. He can’t be fully out and remain active in southern gospel music; they just won’t allow it (yet).
Re Ray’s last comment:
As I mentioned, I had never heard of Kurt Talley before reports of this incident popped up here. I am wondering, has he ever, to anyone’s knowledge, expressed an opinion opposing equal rights for gay people?
Not to my knowledge.
I take exception to the writer saying that Talley could have used this opportunity to “educate the squeamish Southern gospel music scene about sexual struggles”. The southern gospel music scene is made up of traditional Bible believers. The Bible clearly has a position on homosexuality of which the conservatice SG industry embraces and agrees with. The writer is silly and narrow-minded to suggest that anyone who does not agree with his/her modern opinion is “squeamish” or needs “educating”. Such senseless comments simply reveal the writer’s own need for education and tolerance for positions he/she disagrees with, that is, if he/she believes that all opinions are valid.
Southernbeliever, how can the ‘Bible’ have a clear position on homosexuality if there are so many Christian theologians and biblical scholars in disaccord between each other over the subject?
Also, which mistranslated ‘Bible’ are you refering to?
Southernbeliever declines to state what a traditional Biblical perspective on homosexuality is; actually, there are several incompatible traditional Biblical perspectives….
Southernbeliever also fails to note that much of the reaction to Kirk Talley’s lifelong struggle was in no way compassionate or Biblical.
Those who directed threats and insults at Talley and his family ARE ignorant of elementary Christian compassion AND the nature of various sexual struggles.
They are often guilty, also, of selective and self-serving reinterpretations of Scripture that overlook immorality relating to any topic other than homosexuality or abortion.
I stand by my statement: Talley (and other singers) have the opportunity to educate their fans and alleviate the moral ills that infect the Southern gospel music scene and the political religious right: arrogance, moral hypocrisy, squeamishness, insolence — a “don’t trouble me with the facts” attitude of blind faith rooted in cultural stereotypes, not the values of Jesus of Nazareth.
I agree with Mike that it would be great if Kirk (and all the other GLB folk in Southern Gospel) actually could grasp the opportunity for education in their own industry and among the fans. But it would be professional suicide if he did, because, as you say, they aren’t interested in what the Bible actually says, or what scholars are saying. Anyone who doesn’t already agree with the narrow fundamantalist view ‘must be’ wrong because they disagree. They stop their ears and harden their hearts to the Bible. Anyone saying it’s okay to be gay is taken to be just twisting the Bible for their own wicked purposes and to justify their own ‘sin’. Now, they’ll dig into every concordance, Hebrew/Greek dictionary, and word-study book in the library to prove they are believing right about baptism, communion, the Rapture, and all their pet doctrines. But getting them to look beyond badly translated versions when it comes to their bigotry, it’s back to the old “God said it and that’s all I need to know” routine. And usually, it’s based on the notion that the King James version is the correct one that God delivered into the English language. (been there, done that) On another forum I’m trying to get a bunch of folks to quit throwing out the same Bible verses agaisnt gays because those verses have already been answered and explained by scholars; these anti-gay folk need to explore the scholarship and find fault with the scholarship supporting gays in the church, but they won’t do that and instead just throw out the same verses again without moving forward. The walls and barriers will come down … eventually.
You know, this entire situation is sad. Kirk Talley is a fine performer, has been for many years. Now since he has been dealing with same-sex attraction, you see how christians really are. Immediately you have people condemning him, saying “don’t let the devil win.” Now how inane is that? If a person is gay, they are gay. I went through an ex-gay ministry, so I personally am aware of what goes on. You cannot change what you were MADE to be, period. It took me 18 years to finally accept the fact that I am gay. Best of luck to Kirk Talley. The last thing he needs is people telling him that he is wrong for being what he is.
Ye who are without sin cast the first stone. Better yet, ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Is the sin in your life “big” or “small”? My Bible says sin is sin. So that goes for your overeating and smoking(harming the temple of God), judging others (judge not that ye not be judged) and slander or gossip (keep thy tongue from speaking guile). I sin daily and I seek forgiveness daily. If there is ABSOLUTELY no sin in your lives then you have a right to judge others. But bear in mind that there is a judgement day for all of us – gossips, slanderers, abusers of our bodies, mean-spirited, those who fail to follow the will of God for their lives, those who put cars, houses, vacations, “material stuff” ahead of the kingdom of God and many, many more. I tremble at the thought that I would have to stand before God and Jesus having hatred in my heart and on my lips for a fellow child of God. Search your own hearts and examine your lives. You may think that “reprogramming” doesn’t work, but GOD DOES!!! God “reprogrammed” me from a child of the devil to a child of His. I pray for each of you as I pray for all others who have confessed sin. God remembers it no more – why do you?
Kirk must tell the church world if he is gay or not.
I read somewhere where Kirk said, “I don’t condone homosexuality…..” So, I don’t think we have to concern ourselves with any demands for gay rights out of him. He knows it’s not right.
Romans 1:24-28 tells us exactly what God thinks of homosexuality and lesbianism.
1. Unclean
2. Dishonors one’s own body
3. Vile
4. Unseemly
5. Against nature
Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
God is no respecter of persons, so he is not going to put the genetics in one person to be vile, unclean and against nature and not another person. That would make him an unfair God and he is not.
If a person is a homosexual or lesbian, if they truly wish to be delivered from it, they can ask God to forgive them of their sins and to come into their heart as their Lord and Savior and He can and WILL deliver them.
Rose
Sure Rose. And there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the cheque’s in the mail, and so on…
Rose said:
If a person is a homosexual or lesbian, if they truly wish to be delivered from it, they can ask God to forgive them of their sins and to come into their heart as their Lord and Savior and He can and WILL deliver them.
And if He doesn’t, then they just didn’t truly wish to be. Quite a judgement there, Rose. I know it makes the world a little more complicated for you, but there is a reason He said not to judge others harshly.
David Roberts
To: David Roberts
If they ‘didn’t truly wish to be’ (delivered) then they ‘didn’t truly wish to’ spend eternity in heaven. According to Romans 1:24-28, homosexuality is a sin and no sin will enter into heaven
David, I don’t have to judge. The bible (God) has already done that for me.
Rose
But Rose, you ARE judging — even as you disregard your own sins. In your pride, you also sinfully presume to speak for God, and you sinfully presume to distort the Bible to suit your purposes.
This site is not about alleged sins of individual gay persons. It is about exgay ethics, exgay accountability, exgay truthfulness, and exgay ideology. In other words, it is about sins such as yours.
Please respect the purpose of this site, and refocus your comments on exgay issues. On this particular page, in order to remain on topic, you must confine your comments to the unanswered questions of Kirk Talley’s restoration team.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I have been looking at the posts listed here and it is obvious that each person has very strong personal convictions concerning homosexuality and God. What is not so obvious is if we believe there is a God and we believe in Him, then who or what we should listen to regarding His purpose, His desire, His will or His righteousness. Should it be “misinterpreted” bibles or should it be scholars or should we believe what ever we want to believe? If there is a God, then there will be a judgment and if there is a judgment, what will be judge with? Will it be from the words of a scholar or the words from a “misinterpreted” bible? I am a person that does believe in God and I also believe that the words He left for us are contained in the bible. As a matter of fact, I have read at least six translations regarding homosexuality and each translation states the same thing, that God abhors this behavior. This is not to say that the bible only speaks on this subject, but it actually states the we (including myself) must be Holy in our daily walk and if we error we have to repent and turn from that sin. If the bible is not the source we need to study and research what God expects from us, please let me know what source I need use. I do not wish to stand before God and tell Him that I walked according to what I believe and not according to what He wanted.
**** Again, if the bible is not our source for knowledge and it is not what we will be judge with, please let me and all the readers of the post know what the actual source is so that we do not spend an eternity separated from God.
Just Concerned said:
Again, if the bible is not our source for knowledge and it is not what we will be judge with, please let me and all the readers of the post know what the actual source is so that we do not spend an eternity separated from God.
Although it is hard to take your request at face value, it is irrelevant here anyway. There are many people, with many beliefs, and it is not the purpose of this site to validate or invalidate any of them. The post above yours by Mike A. (the owner of this blog) applies equally to you. Please read it and confine your discussion to the topic or do not post.
I might add that this thread is almost two years old. Perhaps it would be best to leave it as is unless there is some current news about Kirk Talley. Thank you.
David Roberts
Although this thread is quite old and although the subjects brought up by Rose is not particularly relevant to the thread, I do want to address what Rose said. I think this is a very illustrative point to understanding anti-gay Christians.
Their logic goes something like this:
Point 1: homosexuality is sin; and
Point 2: God is a just God who would not just assign someone to be a sinner;
Therefore: Science is mistaken when it suggests that the origins of sexual orientation is anything other than self determined.
Of course these are not the only possible conclusions.
Calvinists would say that God has predestined gay people to hell. Calvin didn’t hold to Point 2.
And a person less bound by a legalistic theology would say that the “therefore” is observably wrong and so there must be a flaw in the points, most likely Point 1. They would re-examine scripture keeping in mind the context, interpretation, overall cohesiveness, and consistency with their understanding of God. But this takes effort, a humble heart, and a lot of faith.
But for lazy Christians like Rose, Point 1 in non-negotiable and is not open to further understanding or interpretation.
Rose doesn’t care a whit about the context of the writing. She believes that the writers of the New Testament had no input into what they were writing; they were simply taking dictation. She doesn’t care that our versions of scripture are actually copies of copies of copies of copies and it is difficult to be absolutely certain that the words she reads were those written by Paul. She doesn’t care that most scholars believe that some books included in the New Testament were actually written by someone posing as the claimed author in order to give their writings credibility (for example 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus were probably not written by Paul). No, Rose believes what she believes and she doesn’t have the strength of faith to let anything challenge her beliefs.
No amount of scientific evidence will ever sway her opinion because she doesn’t base her opinion on reason, thought, or evidence.
And Rose’s way of thinking is predominant in most conservative churches today. Christianity has become a faith for the lazy in the past century. And that’s sad.
We have been asked not to post anything more on the question of homosexuality and I will respect Mike A’s wishes.
But I WOULD like to address Just Concerned’s question…. one on one through email, not here. Just Concerned, if you would email me at ristapie@earthlink.net, I would like to talk with you.
Just Concerned only, please. I don’t want to be flooded with emails.
Rose
u can no more be “cured” of homosexuality than you can be cured of being left handed or having a a mole on your hand.. you are born that way..anyone who goes through this is only trying to please other people and it is a futile quest.. leave this man alone and let God be his judge