Some gay relationships are looked up to, with admiration, by gay and nongay peers alike.
And like heterosexual relationships, some gay pairs serve are fodder for tales about drama queens, bipolar disorder, f-buddies, cheaters and beaters.
Some pairs live in natural sync, others have to fight hard to make the relationship work.
With his usual sensitivity and insight, Dalai Banana reflects, from his own experience and those of his friends, on all these types of pairings.
I read this post and it’s linked article with much interest,but something that made me laugh was the comment in the article about these two guys being sexually incompatible! DUH….a boy and girl go together, not two boys or two girls.
Sorry, I just couldn’t pass up the obvious one here guys! 🙂
Somehow I doubt that a boy and a girl would be sexually compatible either- children and sex really don’t mix well.
Hey Stacy – you’ve got a really great blog. One question though, can you get me a copy of the gay agenda that you all talk so much about? Apparently the head office of the Great Gay Conspiracy to Destroy Society has failed to send me mine (I’ve only been requesting it for, like, 4 years now) and I thought you might have a better idea on how to obtain one.
Kudos’ TA, okay how about a man and a woman! 🙂
CPT Doom – got a credit card?
Stacy, honey, you misunderstand me – it’s called sarcasm, sweetie.
You see, darling, the conspiracy theories spun by the less virtuous members of the “Christian” community in this country are so wild they would be laughable if people didn’t take the slanders and smear tactics seriously. Anyone who has studied the gay civil rights movement knows that the divisions and disagreements among the major gay rights organizations means that they can rarely agree on agenda for a joint press conference.
It’s so tiresome to continually hear about how my very existence is going to cause the end of civilization, how my entire psyche is really just a delusion, and how any relationship I enter is doomed to failure because of the “parts” analogy you yourself stated.
Such arguments deny the humanity and variety of gay people, while at the same time devaluing our lives. They represent the most immoral, unAmerican and unChristian activities taking place in this country today. It is high time that gay men and lesbians stopped being the convenient scapegoat of pseudo-Christians like Mssr. Floyd and were finally treated like the human beings we really are.
Now it’s time to watch the Olympics and root for MY country.
It’s funny, the gay relationships that fail get all the press–even from gay people. Part of the reason I’m so keen on the whole idea of gay marriage is that it’s about time we started celebrating our success stories, too.
I’ve been with my current partner–now my husband–for almost six years. We’ve never had infidelity issues, never had drug or alcohol issues, and never had violence of any kind in our relationship. Except for the fact that we dared to get married, we’d never draw anyone’s attention.
Oh yeah, and we’ve had really great sex the whole way through, with no compatibility problems at all. Our parts fit together in all kinds of wonderful ways.
But anyway, thanks for your concern.
Based upon the amount of insulting and childish emails I receive from Christian fundamentalists when I post in this forum I rarely post in here anymore, although I am a daily reader… thankyou Mike and Steve for providing this space.
So I will just clear up this one thing for “Stacy”.
When speaking of sexual incompatibility in my particular post, I was speaking of the fact that the who guys wanted different things out of sex and were not able to meet those needs with each other. Strangely enough, neither of them would have been able to get that from a Christian wife either.
And by the way, when I made love to my same-sex partner last night, Stacy, everything went together just fine.
But any man who has had a fulfiling and enjoyable experience of gay sex would know that is what happens when two people who love each other and have sacrificed so much to be with and serve each other in a relationship, decide to have sex with each other.
How a Christian fundamentalist would know if gay sex is fulfiling or “goes together” or not escapes me, unless of course it is one of those ex-gay types who used to have gay sex, and then went on to find something they wanted more… which is fine. They are more than entitled to their experience and I applaud them for asking the questions they have asked themselves.
It is when they start answering my unasked questions for me, start legislating against me, and spread mistruths about me that I get annoyed.
And as one who has been through more than his fair share of ex-gay movements, I can safely say that for me, it has not worked. That can only mean the following;
1. The ex-gay movement is wrong and deluded.
2. OR I am a vessel that God has pre-ordained for destruction.
3. OR I didn’t try hard enough to change myself.
4. OR God is quite happy with me as is, and saw no need to change me.
You can make up your own mind. I have made up mine.
And I intend to make love to my partner again tonight. I could let you know if everything “goes together” or “is compatible” again tomorrow, but somehow, I don’t think you’re interested in what I’ve got to say if it doesn’t agree with your own preconceptions on this matter.
Interesting commentary from Dalai Banana’s blog. I, too, have seen relationships ranging from the “truly good” to the “truly bad”. And, I’ve seen it among both gays and straights, so I know it isn’t just a gay thing. It would be great to see more public evidence of the really good gay relationships, but I know that won’t happen: the folks in those relationships are busy living happy and constructive lives in their own way, without making waves or drawing attention to themselves. This leaves the outlandish, violent, abusive, and just plain weird and fringe folks to be shown on television and videos to feed the propoganda machine; and a gullible funda-gelical public eats it up, thinking all gay folks are that way. This needs to change. There are just too many of us to allow such lop-sided imagery to prevail.
Making same-sex marriage visible would help — all those quiet and ‘invisible’ couples would make a visible statement about the realities of same-sex relationship and show that such relationships are no more interesting or odd than straight relationships, in a day-to-day basis. They go to work, they pay the bills, pay taxes, vote, make groceries, and do laundry, and keep the house and yard up … pretty dull stuff. And once in a while, they’ll make love like all committed couples do.
That’s the kind of relationship I would like to have — committed, monogamous, and stable. O’course, approaching 50, all the good guys are either already in relationships or doing the same as I am doing (living my life, being a responsible citizen, hoping my kids and grandkids will eventually do the same, staying out of bars and ‘meat-markets’, and being fairly invisible), so my celibacy will likely continue. But make no mistake: my celibacy is definitely a choice and not a defeated resignation, or sour grapes. Sex or no sex, I’ll always be gay and outspoken.
Just curious Ray, you’re approaching 50, and looking for a committed, monogamous, and stable relationship, but cannot consider such a possibility with a woman? Sex or no sex? Seeing that you take long-term celibacy (can i get an amen from some married men here?) in stride, why should you limit your options?
Yer kidding, right? If I were in a committed monogamous relationship, it would be with a man, and there most definitely would be sex involved. I’m gay. I wouldn’t marry another woman. It was wrong the first time, and would be wrong still today. Actually I’m not actively “looking”, necessarily — it the opportunity arises with the right person, I would consider it. But after 6.5 years celibate, I’m not in any rush. My life is too exciting and full already, and I feel no lack of anything at this point in my life.
Ooops… that should be “IF the opportunity arises…” not “IT the opportunity…”
Doom… I didn’t misunderstand you 🙂 Obviously you did me though!
Ummm… STD, one-nights, the bars and baths and other meeting places… these are not the sum total of the realm of Gay Life. In fact, none of these are even unique to gays. Loose and irresponsible living can be found in just about every element of society. The assumption that none the people posting here seems to know your Jesus is just plain ignorant and offensive. I was “saved” at 16, and was an ordained Pentecostal minister for over 10 years. I am no longer a Christian and have no interest in your stated “agenda” because your way is about imposing your religious views on others, rather than hearing out the views of others and actually engaging in a significant and mutually respectful dialog about spiritual values and what’s really important in life. You have no answers for me until you’ve taken the time to hear the questions.
Ray,no matter what you say or how you reject me and my words, I still love you and feel compassion toward you. If that is “nothing to say to you” so be it. It will mean something to someone out there. There is someone reading who wants to be cared about. Whoever you are, know that I do care.
Explain your “compassion”. What is it really, and what exactly are you bringing to the table? Why would you feel the need to express compassion for me (or any other people you don’t know)? What about me makes you think I need or even want your brand of compassion? Are you supporting the right for all people to marry the person of their choice, regardless of gender? Are you supporting the right for all people to protect their financial, emotional, and spiritual investments in their chosen partners? Are you actively engaged in the efforts to remove barriers and discrimination for gay and lesbian people (and other minorities)? Or is it that you presume to know what is best for others and feel like we’re missing something if we don’t experience life the same way you do with your interpretation of Jesus? That’s not compassion, but false pity, and it reeks of paternalism and condemnation for who we are and what our lives are about.
So, explain your brand of ‘compassion’. Where does it come from and where does it lead?
My partner and I will soon celebrate the 4th anniversary of our Civil Union. We went to Vermont as soon as it was legal. Not that it means anything in our home state of Texas, but it meant everything to us. You see, we were (and still are) very much in love and wanted a committed, stable relationship. We have friends that are a lot like the couples discussed in the article. However, loving each other was paramount in our relationship. Although we were physically attracted to each other, we knew that if we based our whole relationship on sex, what would we have after the first couple of months? I know a lot of gay guys make this mistake, but it is not unlike many straight relationships and marriages. I know several that are just as incompatiable sexually. Anyway, I’m glad that in my marriage, everything fits together just fine. Oh and by the way, I wouldn’t trade being gay for anything.
Just an observation,
Ray’s “why do you think i need your compassion” and Jim’s “i wouldn’t trade being gay for anything” testimony sure refutes the often heard refrain “no one would ever CHOOSE to be gay…”
Obviously, there are some very good reasons one might choose to be gay… and some very good reasons to choose not to.
Oh give it up Marty. Being gay is who they are and they are comfortable in it. They didn’t ask to be gay but built their happy lives around accepting who they are. Leave it alone already.
Why do you continually obsess over gays? Your website (which hasn’t been working for me lately) is a testiment to your mind being firmly placed in MY PANTS.
I worry more about somebody who chooses to give themselves an ulcer over strangers on the net who don’t subscribe to their point of view.
I also worry about somebody who would actually take the time out of what should be a normal happy life actually marketing and selling “Don’t Be Gay” stickers at a profit loss.
What is your damage? Does our presence on this earth actually give you that many fits?
Opps – sorry if I was unclear in my earlier post. I was born gay and I have never known any other sexual identity. I have never been sexually attracted to a female so why would I want to be something that I could never be (or want to be)? Marty if you are straight and happy, know that I am happy for you. However, also know that I am just as happy in being the gay person that God made me and I wouldn’t want to be anything else. To think otherwise would just be plain silly.
Marty said: Ray’s “why do you think i need your compassion” and Jim’s “i wouldn’t trade being gay for anything” testimony sure refutes the often heard refrain “no one would ever CHOOSE to be gay…”
BEING gay is not a choice. Sexual orientation is not a choice. Sexual behavior is a choice. What I do with it is very much a choice. I am proud of being the person I was born to be, after years of growing up in a time when gay wasn’t anywhere near as accepted as it is now, and years of trying very hard NOT to be gay, pretending I wasn’t, wishing I wasn’t, even praying that I wasn’t…. but I was, through and through. Instead of fighting it, instead of trying to fit in to what the church or society expected of me, I finally realized that this is who I am. I could either live miserably and in guilt and shame, or accept who I am and make the best of it. I’ve made the best of it. Would I have chosen to be gay? Probably not. Would I have chosen to get age spots and wrinkles or have funny shaped toes? No. But this is how I was made.
I have come to terms with it and I am happy with it, and I do not need some self-righteous religious fanatic to get up in my face pretending to feel sorry for me or claiming to have “compassion”. That’s like having ‘compassion’ for someone born with freckles and brilliant orange hair. It’s not a curse and not something to be pitied. It’s part of the rich tapestry of human experience, and I am SOOOO grateful to be a part of the positive side of things rather than the negative, like many of the ill-informed Christians continuing to beat the “gay is a choice, give up your sin” drum.
People who don’t grasp this need to pray for their own enlightenment and quit waiting for other people to conform to their small-minded ignorance.
When I was first coming out, I treated being gay as a cross I had to bear. Deciding to be honest about my sexuality was not about celebrating being gay, rather it was about trying to end the suffering of being in the closet. I literally figured “it can’t be worse than this to be out.”
A friend told me then that I would truly feel comfortable being gay when I could answer the question “if they made a pill that could make you straight overnight, would you take it?” with a “no.”
After 4 years and a lot of soul-searching I, like a lot of gay people, have come to realize that being gay is something special. It does not make me better than other people, but there are differences that give me a rare perspective on society. I have seen life both as a straight man (at least superficially) and as a gay man, and those experiences are a special gift. I do not think it is surprising that many more artists are gay than in the general population.
Scott, is there no irony to be found in the fact that you hang around gay, ex-gay, and anti-gay websites all day and then chastise those of us who feel compelled enough to create them? Where would any of us be without guys like you, old buddy?
So you just need the attention.
How cute.
CPT: I gotta comment on that. I haven’t seen the actual denomgraphics, but from the numbers of gay people I’ve met and the work they pursue, it seems there are a disproportionate number of gays and lesbians compared to the general population in nearly all of the helping professions as well as the creative professions: medicine, clergy, education, art, theater, music, etc. O’course this may be just my own perception because of the kind of people with whom I work and socialize, but I don’t think it is just a false perception or generalized stereotype.
But we also tend to be more sensitive/intuitive/alert and a lot more ‘engaged’ with the world around us. I wonder if this is a learned defense mechanism to always be ‘on guard’ in a hostile society, or is it connected to the way we are differently-wired in our brains regarding orientation — not just sexual orientation/attraction, but the way we are generally oriented to the world at large.
Heady questions for too abstract for me to know how to answer, but who I am as a gay man is definitely connected to everything else in my life and not just my sex organs.
Obviously, there are some very good reasons one might choose to be gay… and some very good reasons to choose not to…
Now Marty if you could ever just show that it was a choice, you might just have something.
Until then…
Marty | August 23, 2004 11:14 PM
>Just curious Ray, you’re approaching 50, and looking for a committed, monogamous, and stable relationship, but cannot consider such a possibility with a woman?
Why should he? To make you feel better about your anti-gay world view? Give me a break.
friend of observer (and gays) | August 24, 2004 12:12 AM
>Ray,no matter what you say or how you reject me and my words, I still love you and feel compassion toward you
Come, come, let’s get something straight. “Christian love,” particularly as relates to conservative christians, is an oxymoron. Conservative “christian love” has nothing to do with what people would normally view as love.
I sure a guy who calls his god “some sky pixie” can teach us all a lot about “Christian Love”.
Please.
Ray:I agree with you. Almost all of my friends have chosen careers in social services, health care, education or the arts. And yes, I think that we are “wired” differently. We are more caring, loving and sensitive. (at least my circle of friends are). Is this a product of our being gay is an interesting question. I don’t know the answer, but I do know that we are not nearly as judgemental as the so-called christians who tend to dominate this thread.