In reading Tanya Erzen’s Straight to Jesus (get this book) a number of things jumped out at me as being relevant to our discussions here.
Erzen quotes from Alan Medinger’s book Growth into Manhood (a must-read at New Hope):
Most male overcomers I have encountered continue to differ from other men in that they do not become sexually stimulated by the sight of a woman’s body.
Erzen noted “Many ex-gay men … say they are not attracted to women in general, just their wives.” This seems consistent to what we have heard from those ex-gays and spouses that have shared with us at this site. She further adds this anecdote “at an Exodus workshop I was not allowed to attend entitled Sex in Marriage, Alan Chambers told the men that it took nine months after his wedding before he was able to consummate the marriage.”
It’s clear that while marriage and children are held up to the world as proof of “change”, these marriages may not be recognizable to the heterosexuals that they are displayed before. When Exodus lobbies the APA with examples of married “former homosexuals”, I suspect the APA members would be less impressed if they understood that the “heterosexuality” of the ex-gay marriages was in all likelihood vastly different than their own.
It may well be that some gay men are able to build a relationship with one particular woman and find in her a fulfilling and sexually satisfying relationship. And it may be with time that his attraction to her grows while his interest in all other people diminishes. There are those who participate here who might suggest that their life is evidence of this. And for those who find someone to share their life as completely as possible, I wish them success and happiness.
But the political face of Exodus seems to tell a story that is in conflict with this truth. With their emphasis on proclaiming “change”, their political anti-gay agenda requires not only a change from something their agenda opposes (homosexuality) but also a change to something that their audience can relate to (heterosexuality).
For much of the anti-gay agenda to be palatable, the public needs to be convinced that these examples are no longer gay, not that they are in some other category of being a same sex oriented person in an opposite sex relationship. They can’t relate to this and so ex-gays have to be repackaged as heterosexual. For example, today the SBC Baptist Press says this about Focus on the Family’s Caleb Price
Price says he identified himself as a homosexual for about 14 years but now is a Christian and heterosexual.
This dissonance between the personal and the political faces of ex-gay individuals cannot be easy to reconcile. I wonder if this insistence on a political identity with which it may be difficult for the ex-gay strugglers to identify will eventually lead to either a shift away from political rhetoric or a split within the movement.
(I apologize to the women that participate here. New Hope is solely comprised of ex-gay men and thus Erzen addresses men more than women. Some of the thoughts fomented by the book will be more relevant to women in other posts.)
These men remind me a lot of my ex-boy, who said frequently that he was “pretty much about men,” but considers me and his now-wife the only women he was really attracted to. He is openly bi and says his feelings for men and women are, “like a 75/25 thing.”
The boy was stupid and passive-aggressive, but at least he was really honest about himself. I feel appreciative of that now.
Excuse me??? Alan Chambers told the men that it took nine months after his wedding before he was able to consummate the marriage.
Oh, now this makes sense…
“She is not my diploma for healing, nor is she proof that I have changed.”
You can say that again.
Oh, now this makes sense…
Here is a cached version of that link, which seems to have an error at the moment.
Man, he was a mess. Do you suppose he really thinks it was the gay that caused all those problems? It does follow the pattern for many of these exgay leader types. They make lousy choices, learn to substitute sex for love and often blame it all on something from their childhood (distant father, molestation…). If they are applying that template to everyone who is gay, no wonder they think “change” is best. I would be able to take him more seriously if he didn’t then reinforce this change with a career of convincing others to do the same. It would be as if everyone who was gay went to work for HRC, because of course being gay would qualify one for that, right?
Timothy, how many times have you heard that “there is someone here today who is” line?
Well, let’s look at it from the ‘Exodus Point of View’ for a while as they see the definitions. For them to be gay is to act in a homosexual behavior. To be homosexual, as concerns a sexual preference, delineates a psychogenic predisposition, no physiological (biological) cause being allowed. Said psychogenesis nearly always laid at the feet of the father.
Thus to be ex-gay is simply to no longer engage in homosexual behavior. And since the homosexual preference is purely psychogenic, that is change enough, a change in behavior. It’s likely why Nicolosi says what he does has been good for those who didn’t really change. I imagine he’s gotten them down from the 100s of partners a year that they like to say gay men have to 12 or so. *smirk*
But the fundamentalist Christian community while embracing the ex-gay movement will still come out with their profundity that homosexuality (the behavior/preference) is a choice. So for that insular religious community to see a change in behavior from homosexual to heterosexual in marriage (or no sexual behavior at all) is to see only that change which can possibly exist. And they’re happy with it, and need not really understand nor embrace that struggle with which the ex-gay is continually dealing.
Thus the ex-gay movement has a problem reconciling what they know is reality and what they might espouse in their rhetoric. Further creating confusion might just be the reality that some very minor amount of homosexuality in men or in women might simply be psychogenic with which reparative therapy is useful. Or the idea that bisexuality (does that really exist?) is that which people like Nicolosi has actually had success. One of the first studies Nicolosi posted at NARTH seemed to be indicative of just that, he ‘cured’ the bisexuals, ‘confused’ a small group of homosexuals (into a supposed bisexuality), and beat his head against the wall with the rest (of the homosexuals).
So Exodus is toiling in an area of insecurity. As far as the religious component is concerned, however, they’re doing ok. If a homosexual man can engage a woman, marry her, be faithful to her, and even come to love her, via that commitment to his faith in Christ, then I see nothing wrong in that. He is following only that spiritual commitment in his life which is possible.
In that spirit, I attempted the same thing. I found I could find a devotion to a woman that might have been completely monogamous, but it wasn’t the quite the same as an experience of love. It seemed to come more out of an obsessive need to find that truth in a woman that wasn’t supposed to exist for me in a man – and yet does. Thankfully, something went wrong for me and I finally came to my senses, to the truth. But maybe with the help of Exodus it might have been otherwise. Whatever, the point is that I finally came to see the truth as it is for me, accept it and apply it my life.
Though I guess that as long as community truth is so much more against your personal truth, a person will keep trying to deny his personal truth. The question is, which is for you the greater transgression, denying your community, or denying yourself. Certainly for a number of gay men that question is mute, and never asked, the answer all too obvious. But for a certain number the question is uppermost in their mind. Exodus and its fundamentalist Christian backers would prefer that the community response remain anti-gay.
Would that “the ex-gay movement, Exodus, NARTH, and others, could be more honest concerning their ‘success’ when dealing with these ‘highly-motivated’ persons (probably less than 25%) and perhaps even acknowledge the other community, the gay community. However, their political movement is intimately tied to their theological interpretations that there can be only one nature for man. I don’t see the fundamentalist Christian culture war against reality waning in the foreseen future. And I don’t see Exodus moving away from that fundamentalist view which is their life blood. Certainly NARTH and Nicolosi or the Catholic Medical Association won’t be doing so. So I guess we or our descendant brothers and sisters will be here for some time – watching.
Well, I ramble, I guess…..
Timothy: Thanks for your posts on Erzen’s book. I havent’t been able to make the time to read it yet. Would you mind sharing the page number where she writes that Chambers told the men he wasn’t able to consumate his relationship with his wife for 9 months?
Thanks!
Jason,
The anecdote is on page 118 about half way down the first paragraph. “According to Evan [a New Hope participant], at an…”
David
“there is someone here today who is” suffering from an inability to reconcile ministry and politics. If you’ll come forward, we’ll lay hands on you and …
🙂
See, that’s exactly why, as a straight woman-ex gays don’t ring true to me.
Heterosexuals don’t blithely talk about the sexual qualities of their MARRIED sex lives to strangers, or even their friends.
There are assumptions made that in marriage, there is sex, but, and more importantly, it’s not really anybody’s business.
However, ex gays have a point to make. They are challenged to provide facts and evidence.
When you’re single, it’s on your word alone that you’re no longer gay.
Opposite sex spouses aren’t qualified or compelled to be from outsiders.
From what we can obviously observe from Chambers’s confession regarding the consummation of his marriage (which qualfies you’ve arrived at the sex part of it), he’s pretty much ‘struggling’ with opposite sex attraction too.
Being what we REALLY are, and are meant to be means there’s NO struggling with our attractions whatsoever.
But struggling more with what OTHER people expect us to do with them.
And still, it’s nobody’s business to expect anything from our sex lives but taking responsibility if and when at some point any of us is reckless and uncaring about their partner(s).