In reaction to the Ex-Gay Survivor Conference, Prof. Warren Throckmorton asks former ex-gays and their organizations:
What are you wanting to accomplish? Ok, a follow up question. Do you want to see your vision of reform at Exodus or do you want to see Exodus shut down?
In the comments to Throckmorton’s article, Exodus President Alan Chambers chimes in with four additional questions — and Exodus co-founder Michael Bussee, who is no longer ex-gay, responds to both Throckmorton and Chambers.
Among Chambers’ questions:
Were these people truly hurt by Exodus or was there a theological disagreement? If the former, which I am open to, I hope to hear exactly what was harmful. If the latter, which I would imagine is the majority, then we simply agree to disagree.
If Chambers wishes to hear what was harmful, then why has he thus far declined dialogue and ignored the detailed testimonies that are published at beyondexgay.com?
I am not angry at the organizers or participants of the BXG counter conference. I wouldn’t ever, as the head of Exodus, organize an event that coincided with a gay event — especially in the same city. But, I am not angry that they are holding a conference—that is their right.
This seems to be untrue. In conjunction with Focus on the Family in 2004 and 2006, Exodus positioned “Love Won Out” ex-gay roadshows in states considering constitutional bans against marriage for same-sex-attracted persons. Exodus and Focus on the Family jointly proceeded to lobby for discrimination against same-sex-attracted couples in those states.
Several posts seem to indicate that this “Survivor’s” conference is all in response to Exodus’ involvement in policy matters. So, if we get out of policy issues then everyone will just be hunky dory with Exodus and love us again? Doubt it. The activist gay community has been trying to discredit us since day one — even when Exodus was just a nice little organization trying to help individuals.
Exodus has not been apolitical since the 1970s, if ever, and as Ex-Gay Watch regularly documents, Exodus’ so-called therapies help almost no one, even when freed from the burden of Chambers’ partisan politics.
Exodus co-founder Michael Bussee responds to Throckmorton’s original question:
I do not want to see EXODUS “shut down”. Nothing that coercive. Instead, I pray for the day when EXODUS will simply die of natural causes. A day when there will be no need for something like EXODUS. I know it’s a just a dream.
In the meantime, EXODUS has every right to exist. That being said, some reform would be nice. And, no, I do not want to see EXODUS “discredited”. In fact, it genuinely pains me each and every time EXODUS does something stupid to discredit ITSELF — like staying alligned with NARTH (while NARTH continues to be alligned with hate-mongers like Cameron) or putting out stupid radio ads (without, apparently, first reviewing them for content and message).
To his credit, Alan apologized for them, but the radio ads DID give the definite (false) impression that “change” was “radical, sudden and complete” — and that further hurt EXODUS’s credibility. “We” didn’t do that. They did that to themselves. It’s like watching EXODUS shoot itself in the foot over and OVER again.
As for the purpose of the conference, I saw it as part statement and part group therapy. People who had been harmed by their EXODUS experience were able to meet each other face-to face, pray together, share their stories and take real steps towards healing. It was grief work — and you kinda had to be there to understand.
Responding to Alan Chambers, Bussee writes:
I feel I need to respond to Alan’s earlier comment about my “double speak and lies.” Alan, that’s precisely why I left EXODUS. That’s why I issued the apology! For almost all of my EXODUS experience, I really believed that I was telling the truth about “freedom from homosexuality”. Eventually, I realized that I was only fooling myself and fooling others — but that was only at the very end of my involvement with EXODUS.
Since age 12, I had been trying desperately NOT to be gay. There were years of prayer, fasting, counseling and study — and the gay feelings only got stronger. My wife and I both strongly believed that God would change me. After nine years of trying to make marriage work, I still had no straight attractions.
After years of prayer and hard work, I saw our clients starting to fall apart, and I finally realized, like Alan, that I had never really met an “Ex-gay” — just a bunch of sincere Christian guys who would “rather not have those tendencies” and who were trying to “live a life of denial”. So, I finally got honest with myself and others and accepted that I was gay.
I am deeply sorry for spreading the lie that gays are somehow “broken” and need to be fixed — and that you will go to Hell if you don’t try. I am sorry for spreading the falsehood that you cannot be both gay and Christian. I am deeply sorry for the pain I caused my family — especially my wife and daughter. I simply could not keep lying. And if my eventual honesty hurt Alan in some way, I suppose I am sorry for that too.
Bussee later continues:
Warren: The more I ponder your comments, the more I am disturbed by their content and tone. “Old news” and therefore somehow irrelevant? Wanting to discredit EXODUS? Shut it down?
I can’t speak for others, but my intent was (and always HAS been) to simply tell the TRUTH about my experience, to bear witness to the harm that “change” ministries can do and to apologize to those I may have unintentionally harmed.
I wish you could have been at the Ex-gay Survivor’s conference — and could have just listened. I think you would have been profoundly moved (as I was) by the stories of deeply religious men and women who have struggled for years (and at great personal cost) to reconcile issues of sexuality and spirituality.
These are brothers and sisters in the faith who experienced real emotional and spritual harm in “ex-gay” programs. As a therapist, I think you have an ethical responsibility to seriously consider the HARM that certain forms of HELP can do. Your clients deserve that much.
I believe that Warren Throckmorton is a good man and that he has the best of intentions for people. That said, of late, I am beginning to see a man led more by an agenda than empathy. I could be wrong and it could just have something to do with what has happened recently with the two conferences, but I am a little disturbed by the things Warren said, and his, what appeared to be, dismissal of people who have been truly hurt. – I expected that sort of dismissal from groups like Exodus who have an agenda to promote, but not Warren who has always been a great moderator and bridge builder between the two camps.
I have to concur with Jayhuck. I just posted comments on Dr. Throckmorton’s page, but basically it strikes me as possibly disingenuous that he doesn’t seem to ask Exodus the same questions. What is their motive? Do they really want to “heal” gays and lesbians, and offer alternatives? Or worse yet, are they simply a front for spreading anti-gay disinformation in sensitive political areas, in conjunction with groups like FotF? There’s a lot of evidence for the latter, and Besen’s book Anything But Straight did a great job of illustrating that. Where does Warren’s intellectual curiosity go when this issue arises, however?
It’s probably worthwhile to note that Warren is on vacation and may not have the time or opportunity to respond here to these questions.
I’m of the opinion that Dr. T’s intellectual curiosity takes him to any given place at any given moment and that he has a blog set up where he can think out loud and provide an open forum for positive discussion about it. I believe he endeavors to remain as objective as his personal values regarding some of these issues allow him to be. There are certain things that most regular readers here at XGW will never agree with him on, and yet, he’s provided not only a forum but a balanced one at that during many times when folks and Exodus, PFOX, and Narth have needed to be “called out” on things. This is obviously something he’s been wondering about, and I’m glad he’s comfortable just putting it out there whether “we” like to hear it or not. He puts it out there with an open thread to comment. That, in and of itself, is more than can be said for the others previously mentioned.
Just my opinion.
Warren asked this same question over at his blog, here’s my take as posted there:
Warren,
To your original question: “What are you wanting to accomplish…?”
I think the disolution of Exodus is probably an unrealistic notion or goal. Exodus is a faith based organization and seems to me to be just another denomination of the Christian church, and I doubt the church is going away anytime soon. My personal desire is that Exodus, or any organization for that matter, be held accountable for their claims.
Exodus claims to know “God” and claims to know God’s will for gays. That’s quite an assertion on their part. One of their more recent claims about those with attraction to the same sex was that they could experience: “revolution” and change that could be “radical, sudden and complete.” That ad was not a slip of the Exodus tongue, I am certain they have people among their numbers who believe those things…the ad didn’t come from the ether after all (or maybe it did?). I think it’s good for anyone and everyone to expect Exodus to substantiate their claims. If they’re selling a cure, let them prove it. If it’s snake oil, that should be exposed.
It is apparent that, as with any faith based group, there is disagreement within Exodus as to what “God’s” way is. I don’t know if Alan would have scrambled to explain about the above mentioned ad and apologize for Exodus if there hadn’t been an “Ex-gay Watch” or similar group calling them on the carpet?
I want Exodus to be seen for what they are, not for what they claim to be.
It was grief work — and you kinda had to be there to understand.
No. You had to realize the harm that was done to begin with, to understand why there would even be grief in the first place and then, perhaps, to understand the need for healing, and that the Conference was mostly about healing.
As long as they don’t see, or don’t care to see, or just plain don’t care about the harm they’re doing, the only other way they’ll have of evaluating something like the Survivor’s Conference is within the context of the Culture War. That’s where those questions are coming from.
I would like to see some intellectual and social honesty with Exodus or any other ex gay outreach. The use of language and qualifying necessity for intervention when describing homosexuality would be a good place to start.
Words like ‘bondage’ and ‘tragedy’ or ‘unhappiness’ around homosexuality denotes inevitable disquiet and a difficult life.
And, I’d like to see them leave children alone and not use their parents as the agents of this outreach. It’s already difficult for a young person to avoid religious indoctrination. The fix is in, and hedged further by making parental love a condition of accepting the interventions of one’s church leaders, if not Exodus.
This is dangerous pressure. And completely unfair and gives an advantage that plays with very tender and vulnerable young people.
For Alan to ask if this is about theological difference, is a question that’s not left to who is most affected by this. One’s choice to participate in a Christian life begins early.
But it’s the civil laws that disqualify a gay person from OTHER aspects of their citizenship that leaves the option of having ANY choice for other life situations that makes Chamber’s and belief in a compassionate agenda VERY hollow.
This activity is aimed at ASSURING and ASSERTING that a gay person WILL risk a MORE difficult life outside of choosing a Christian one.
This is exactly why I would RUN from such people. Just as I would if I were an abused wife, constantly being told by her church that submitting to her husband as per the Biblical literature is what a wife’s duty is.
I’m seeing all the duty and submission flowing in ONE direction. And women and homosexuals are so easily harmed by it, because of who set it all up to begin with.
We’re told to trust, and give ourselves over to this….without any sufficient happiness for ourselves.
And in this, our own happiness and self knowlege is disdained as wrong or dangerous to engage in.
History isn’t on their side on this. Biblical abuse against other people isn’t new. Repackaging it for another group isn’t either.
So what I’d like to see is no political expansion or the sale of heterosexuality as a virtue and more superior human quality.
That’s as offensive to me as saying being white is a virtue and sign of more moral character.
I’d have more respect if they were showing that being CHRISTIAN and reaching out with Christianity as a fulfilling life-period.
And one’s virtue lies in how committed they are doing good works, and not on condition of what your sexual orientation is.
Evidently, Chambers and Throckmorton can’t be persuasive enough in this, WITHOUT socio/political pressure or intellectual dishonesty.
And if they aren’t persuasive enough, then that should be THEIR problem, not anyone else’s.