From Peterson Toscano:
In speaking with some ex-gay leaders recently, I see the desperate need they have to hear some of our stories. Never once has an ex-gay program I attended ever done any sort of follow-up. I mean I can’t buy a soy latte these days without having to fill out a survey about my coffee experience. Yet folks can spend tens of thousands of dollars on reparative therapy and nothing–no aftercare, no reflections on what worked and what didn’t work.
I think ex-gay leaders can be like folks with lots of credit card debt. The debt exists and it keeps growing, but as long as we keep all the statements separate and never add up all that we really owe, we can ignore reality. We may even be sucked into getting yet another credit card.
Wow, it’s the debt, the money the bottom line with these ex-gay programs. They prey on the weak, the naieve and the unsuspecting. I was pulled into something like this over a period of about 5 years. The program was not labeled as an ex-gay program but the individual who ran it (his name is Valnne-Dayne Spears) was using breath and re-birthing therapy in order to heal people of their problems. His organization (he called it Empyrian Rebirthing) was like a cult in some respects especially the fact that people were drawn to his charismatic personality. I noticed that several individuals were very dependent on him and his organization and that (for while) included myself. His prices were exorbitant especially for the “intensive” workshops. He kept telling me that I needed to use his program to (as he put it) “save your life”. He went so far as to tell me how he had overcome his own homosexuality and would have me shout into a pillow to expell the demons of homosexuality. The whole thing was a scam and I am very embarassed to think that I was so guillible to believe such a dangerous scam. I I spent thousands of dollars (no follow-up) on a con artists’ vision of what he thought life should be like. Not only was the fiscal price high but the price in horrible anxiety and depression was even higher. I ended up going to counseling for 2 years in order to undo the damage that this man did to me or what I allowed him to do to me.
I am glad (in a way) that I went through this because unfortunately I think that is what it took to finally make me wake up to the fact that God made me perfectly gay the way I am. My orientation is a great gift.
These programs (from one degree to another) are dangerous and cause damage to people’s self esteem and well-being.
I did receive a survey about a year or so after I left an ex-gay ministry. Actually, the ministry only forwarded a survey from a Christian college student. I remember that I was frustrated that the survey was narrow in its focused and presumed respondents were ‘successful’ ex-gays and fundamentalist Christians. It seemed that they didn’t really want to hear of unsatisfied ‘ex-gays’.
I’ve never understood why ‘ex-gay’ groups seem uninterested in actually finding out whether their own ministries are effective or harmful.
If ex-gay ministries start getting sued on a regular basis because their product didn’t do what it said it would, they might begin to change their tune. It’s going to take constant, relentless non-violent protest and proactive means to change our society to the point that the ex-gay ministries become a thing of the past and those that still exist will be very obscure.
Benjamin, the lawsuit would never stick and end up prohibitively expensive for those ex-ex-gays involved. You have remember the “official position” of ex-gay ministries is…if someone falls it’s because he or she weren’t “working” their program. So, if you go through a reparative therapy program and are still gay, it’s your “fault” that you failed because you didn’t work hard enough.
Mr. Clark: Not only is it a “gift” it was probably foreordained we would be gay. I wouldn’t be surprised if ten percent of the Hosts of Heaven (pre-existence) is gay. I explained to my Mormon boss I probably told God I would be happy being a homo in this life…far more challenging than being a standard run-of-the-mill hetero. (His jaw dropped when I said that.)
Actually Mr. Harwood, it’s this disclaimer that would proof of that there is lack of confidence in the program’s results.
The Federal Trade Commission has guidelines for product safety…AND the guidelines for the product. These ex gay programs are mostly served by the unlicensed and these programs have a commercial and for profit interest.
They engage in advertising, program materials and testimonials from a limited source, that isn’t endorsed by larger and more legitimate licensed peer bodies like the American Psychiatry Assoc. or Psychologist’s Assoc. Nor the same peer groups that represent parents and adoption agencies.
They may have credentialed participants, but they are literally maverick from the larger group.
In effect, ex gay groups participate in ARCHAIC, long abandoned practices. Which are mainly rooted in deprivation, but not an actual conversion.
They might SAY their methods are effective, but have kept no records that such a thing has actually happened in ways that prove it.
Their targets are people who have likely already spent a lifetime in some form of religious teaching, and these groups are an extension of it that exploits emotional and mental fatigue.
Groups like this have simply gotten away with misdiagnosis because there has been no motive to go after them.
No medical practicioner is allowed to misdiagnose, or say something is there that isn’t, and then proceed to use fear to continue unnecessary treatment.
For example, a doctor can’t say you have something life threatening (when it isn’t and you don’t), then make your parents, or other family fearful of you and what you ‘have’, when there is no need, and take money from them for materials that say there is a cure, or modification that is useful for you-when all is required is that you don’t have sex, period.
Now, where the FTC would come in, is that these group would have to just SAY IT.
“Our aim is to convince you to not have sex, and create a celibate lifestyle around homosexuality.”
Where they fall down is that alone, although truer to the agenda…is unattractive and unconvincing.
So they HAVE to engage in false advertising to be attractive and convincing.
And a lawsuit would stick when they try to say that homosexuality is eqivalent to life threatening problems, or criminal issues.
And the ONLY alternative and guarantee to a life untroubled by these things, is a life with Christ, and/or one without any appropriate relationships to one’s orientation.
At the beginning they say that THEY are the true and proper course, and the end, if little changes they blame YOU.
The fact that the ex gay industry makes improper diagnosis to begin with, is where we can prove THEIR failing.
And a class action can stick. This isn’t a First Amendment issue, but an abuse of it.
And abuse isn’t protected anywhere.
Have any lawyers ever thoguht about trying to put together a class action lawsuit against them? If you get a few thousand people involved, I’d think you could prove their “lack of faith” bs is just that.
Ex-gay leaders routinely misrepresent the efficacy of their programs to the public. It really is nothing but a politically and religiously motivated fraud that also defrauds people of large sums of money who participate in the programs. If they are giving participants fruadulent information of the liklihood of heterosexuality from their program, that would seem to be the most vulnerable area. With regard to liklihood of success in some hypothetical lawsuit, one would need to look at the success of lawsuits against some cults and large consumer frauds perpetrated by charismatic individuals who were selling some sort of “program” to change your life. I believe there were a bunch of high profile frauds and cults in the 70’s , but I don’t know if any of them were brought down by lawsuits.
Walt, I have had a few lawyers at the Williams Project research the possibility. And using the FTC’s guidelines as well as those of the APA.
The Williams Project is a legal think tank that examines laws concerning gays and lesbians. It’s a part of the UCLA Law School.
With testimonies like that of Zach Stark and Lance Carroll, or the access that such orgs. demand at high schools (public or private), we know their first aim is at youth. Children have far less ability not to be forced into these programs against their will. And often they are in away camps that includes other adult clients who possibly might have criminal or clinical problems.
This is what happens when homosexuality is thrown into the same mix as drug addiction, mental illness or sex offenses.
This is unacceptable on it’s face, and why those who insist on being expert on altering or changing homosexuality can be challenged on their competence to not know the differences between these clinical issues.
One could argue that if children have to be forced or coerced or threatened to adhere to any such ex gay program or ministry, arguing that it’s a freely made choice on any level rings hollow.
That’s like saying choosing between a rock and a hard place is still a free choice that one could make.
The Williams Project is looking into this precedent, no one can be strong armed into expensive treatments for cancer….when you don’t have cancer or any other issue that isn’t even life threatening, let alone has no other urgency than a ‘belief’.
Regan, but will the courts actually look pass the veneer of a para-church ministry and see reparative therapy groups and organizations as clinical practices? That’s my whole caveat. Here in TN, Love in Action is still able to function in it’s “ministry to youth” in large part because the courts didn’t rule them as a clinical practice (in re: Zach).
Ministries around the nation teach “prosperity gospel” theology (“You can have anything you want. Just name and claim it.”) If you’re are not financially, emotionally, physically or spiritually successful, it’s not the ministries fault. It’s yours for not having enough faith.
I’m just seeing this in the same light. I don’t believe that the courts are going to get themselves tangled in what could be perceived as an issue of religious liberty regardless of what the actual issue is.
I’m not trying to sound like a prophet of doom. I spent close to $37K during my time in LiA. Those are monies that I could definitely use. I don’t see it. Maybe I’m wrong and I hope I am. As you know the most effective way to make an impact on someone or some group is to impact the wallet.
Jeff: If you get several hundred or even thousands of people on this lawsuit, I’d think the courts would very likely vote in their favor, especially when they’d only have a handful of people “claiming” it worked for them. With that many people, surely they could get nailed with fraud.
Thanks Regan…I REALLY REALLY hope they’re able to nail these frauds and bigots.
Shalom,
I wonder about those the ex gay ministers have what they refer to as a “slip in sexual sobriety”. How are they able to reduce another child of God, another human being, into an object or addictive substance? I believe Homosexuals Anonymous and Joe Dallas give a certainty to vulnerable GLBT people. I am angered by Dan Allendar’s work on behalf of survivors of sexual abuse as well, for he teaches that homosexual people’s love is a violation of God’s love and that the religious right community needs the GLBT and vice versa…My life met with an ex gay leader from Living Waters Desert Stream. I had NO IDEA what these programs were all about until this woman reduced me into an “incarnation of evil that needed to be made extinct”.
For those that were once exgay ministry leaders, my prayer for you is that if you are able to do so, amends be made to those you harmed with your belief system.