The San Jose Mercury News tells us of the intense pressures put on young gay Chinese
Like many gay men in China, 22-year-old Chen Lei enjoys the newfound liberties of urban life. But he says he cannot fight his destiny: to marry a woman for whom he feels no attraction.For economic, social and cultural reasons, the pressure on gays in China to wed and raise families is high.
In Chen’s case, his family hails from a village in Inner Mongolia, and he dares not tell them of his private life in the big city, knowing they would not understand.
Some might be tempted to think that these Chinese men are making the decision to marry because the values that they hold most important include marriage and a family rather than a life consistent with their orientation. However, I would caution from making such an assumption.
This has led to a spate of loveless — and often short — marriages designed to placate the family and procure progeny.”Many gays hurry to marry, then hurry to divorce,” said Xiao Dong, the head of a volunteer civic group in Beijing’s Chaoyang district that battles AIDS.
In our conversations about living consistently with one’s values, we must consider whether faith values have been placed on young people from external cultural or familial forces that with maturity and time will become less persuasive. Western counselors that may encourage efforts of same-sex attracted persons to pursue heterosexuality or marriage because these are values expressed by the client need to keep in mind that the consequences of such direction in the long term may leave both the patient and many others in pain.
There’s less family & social pressure on a Divorced person than a person who has never married.
This is interesting in comparison to an article I read about how and why Spain finally allowed and accepted gay marriage.
So many cultures are malecentric to begin with. Females are definitely disposable…literally. Even before a little girl is born.
In many Asian societies, this has created smaller families, or in the instance of the ‘one child’ policy in China, the preference is that the one child be male.
If he’s gay, the EGOcentrism of heterosexuals is that they ignore this characteristic altogether.
It doesn’t exist, it’s not legitimate. US HETEROSEXUALS and our perpetuation is all that matters.
You gay people’s feelings and wants and needs just has to come last.
And the price paid, evidently can be ignored too.
As for Spain, they credit the intense intrusion of the Catholic Church on real lives that could not live up to the Church’s stated policies.
The conflation of political will and religion created a rebellion towards addressing people’s needs that the Church refused to believe existed.
And this same reaction is true regarding the fascist policies of Franco.
Extremes have no place in societies that require freedom to allow social integration, honesty which will ultimately foster truth and reasonable coexistence.
Then comes the family. The family is also extremely important in the Spanish culture. Grown children yet unmarried, tend to still live with their parents.
One’s relatives still have their expectations of being educated and bringing pride to the family, but also sacrificing a family member isn’t an option.
Divorce rates are very low in Spain, comparative to here and Canada.
One can be religious, and have their family, but there MUST be room to expect indivdual happiness.
Our culture was is really a battle with reasonable expectations, and truth with intellectual dishonesty and disingenousness.
If straight people were reasonable, consistent and open about their expectations and what could is and could be met by gay people, things would go a lot easier.
But China’s culture reflects this lack of reason. The male ego and patriarchal control has transcended Communism and practicality.
Very recently, conservative Jews have become accepting of same sex marriage and gay rabbis.
This too is a religious culture that sees nothing practical or good in sacrificing gay lives and happiness for the traditions of the Torah.
Ultimately more people are UNHAPPY and families fractured, than not by such traditions, and Jewish sons and daughters and brothers and sisters and fathers and mothers are not worth losing them altogether.
The Spaniards figured it out, the Canadians figured it out, a majority of Jews…and their cultural base in Israel figured it out.
China is a reluctant dragon. Communism was never their cultural tradition so long as other values, especially that around the family.
But other cultures haven’t been less so about that either.
But in the case of the United States, our government is paying lip service to family, marriage and children…while failing all those things for the same reasons as I’ve mentioned.
Dishonesty, intellectual and methodical about expectations regarding individual ability as opposed to conformist doctrines. Lack of recognition of gay people and their identity, and needs.
Lack of recognizing that this reduction of gay people…if not coercion and punishment of gay people has had so little positive and socially workable outcomes, it begs wondering why such applications are stubbornly held in place.
Except that free thinking, open individuals are not supposed to have greater influence, however logical and practical it may be…
than the fire of the dragon (Communism) and the brimstone of the father/god (the Church).
This article doesn’t really deal with ex-gays. It is dealing with gays in the closet who are being pressured into loveless marriages. It also doesn’t seem from the few quotes in the articles that the men interviewed have any desire to follow this path, but just feel pushed. This seems a little different from the ex-gay movement that we are dealing with in the US where gays and lesbians seem to think that they can change from gay to straight.
“In our conversations about living consistently with one’s values, we must consider whether faith values have been placed on young people from external cultural or familial forces that with maturity and time will become less persuasive.”
That’s certainly a thing to consider, but can any proof be given for such a stance? Where do you draw the line, for example? I was raised in the Methodist church, and the faith is a big part of my life and an essential part of my being. You can easily say that the values of my faith were placed on me from an external cultural or familial force, yet that does not, in my opinion, make them any less of my own values.
But perhaps I’m misunderstanding you. Obviously, I feel and respond to the tenets of my faith in a way that I believe is consistent with my personality and who I am in general. If someone does not personally hold the values that they are trying to live up to, as seems to be the situation in Mr. Chen’s case, then obviously things will not ultimately work out for the best. But then again, I thought that’s what “values determination” was all about: Figuring out what your values are, apart from social expectation and duty.
Jay, I believe the latter was the motivation for the quoted text. In this case, it does indeed seem that Mr. Chen is complying with externally imposed traditions out of duress. The possibility of discarding those traditions and the expectations of family and friends (or even culture) is a viable path that should at least be considered. A competent counselor would know to explore this with the client.
Then again, as was discussed at length in a recent thread, there are those, perhaps like yourself, who consider their beliefs and traditions too important to abandon. I do think it important for such people to study hard for themselves to make sure that their faith is indeed at odds with their orientation before making that jump. In my case, my understanding of my Christian faith and my relationship with God does allow me to have a monogamous relationship with someone of the same sex whom I love. We each work out our own salvation, and therefore our lives.
Well, Mr. Chen is from a non religious society.
And most religious societies are patriarchal.
So perhaps regardless of one’s religious background, the pressure to marry and have a child transcends cultural and religious influence.
That’s instinctual.
However, the ritual of it. The attachments of ritual (marriage rite) to childbearing and rearing has structured roles.
This is the assumption of one’s public life and persona.
But happiness is something that requires serious thought too.
Personal satisfaction whether it is with one’s religious community or family situation is a noble goal to aspire to.
It’s just that the assumptions that all people are heterosexual and must follow such a path to achieve happiness isn’t true.
To be able to function at one’s optimum, should assume that one should be happy to do it.
And happy to be about it.
But in seems in most religious or totalistic societies, individual happiness isn’t part of the equation, but duty is.
One can achieve both, and not necessarily at the expense of the other.
Although, if allowed, a gay person can achieve marriage and parenthood with another gay person.
Fulfilling that duty.
The sticking point is that a gay person does not have a duty to be straight or marry the opposite sex.
And these societies can’t accept that.
There is a way to meet in the middle.
But obviously for a religious society or definitively non religious one…there is no middle and only one side.
And so, the stalemate and nothing worthwhile gets done.
Jay, all values are externally derived. I don’t think that fact changes the very personal nature of values or the part they play in the way we live our lives or the choices we make in our lives. Obviously values are by definition personal.
In terms of many Asian cultures (not just China, by the way), there is pressure to marry and have a family regardless of one’s sexuality. Even among cultures that are accepting of homosexuality, the pressures exist. That pressure can be so strong that it carries over into generations long after the family has arrived in the US. Familial duty is itself a value. So when you conclude that Mr. Chen doesn’t personally hold the values that he’s trying to live up to, that’s simplifying the subject to merely a choice between accepting one’s sexuality or living a life that conforms to heterosexuality. That ignores the value of familial duty that may include taking a wife and having kids, but not neccessarily abstaining from sex with men. My husband is Asian and is involved with a local group for gay Asian men, and I’ve heard stories that parallel Mr. Chen’s story. What comes out of all the stories is not the commitment to values of personal expectation but rather the values of familial expectation.