Yet another evangelical pastor of a mega-church in Colorado has been shown to have a double life, publicly happily married – but privately engaging in sexual activity with other men. But unlike Ted Haggard and his anti-gay marriage efforts, Rev. Paul Barnes of Grace Chapel in Douglas County was not political in his efforts. And he did not try to cover up or lie when confronted.
Barnes has had a life-long conflict between what he has wanted for himself and his internal desires.
“I have struggled with homosexuality since I was a 5-year-old boy,” Barnes said in the 32- minute video, which church leaders permitted The Denver Post to view. “… I can’t tell you the number of nights I have cried myself to sleep, begging God to take this away.”
Those who have had difficulty reconciling their faith with their orientation can recognize the anguish in Barnes’ words. This is too often the experience that young gay men go through. And Barnes responded to his attractions in ways are also all too familiar.
When Barnes experienced a Christian conversion at 17, it gave him a glimmer of hope. But his homosexual feelings never went away, he said.
It is tragic and unconscionable that the evangelical Christian church still tells young people that becoming a Christian and placing faith in God will change their attractions. And yet as recently as this month, Randy Thomas, the communications director for Exodus said,
“When people can find their identity in God and not homosexuality, all their relationships shift, producing fruit–including healthy heterosexual relationships.”
It is hard to imagine that Barnes did not find his identity in God. He dedicated his life to God and doing his work and, from what we’ve heard to date, it does not appear that he did so out of a desire for his own praise or political power. And yet – though the world and his wife thought so – he did not have a “healthy heterosexual relationship”.
I wish Barnes well. And from the quotes from the other ministers associated with his church it seems that he will be treated with compassion, humility, and an effort to put the needs of the man ahead of the needs of the agenda.
But the sadness of this story is best put in Barnes’ own words.
Barnes expressed hope for a future where one can “be who you are” and be accepted and loved in the Christian community and also spoke about “separating some of the teachings from Scripture” from Jesus Christ.
I share his hope.
I’m saddened by this. He spent so much of his life denying who he was and then his ministry comes down. But I also wonder when the conservative/fundamentalist/evangelical wing will manage to clear their eyes from their expectations of what Scripture says to the truth that sexual orientation just plain is.
We had some discussion a few weeks ago about Haggard and whether he was a hypocrite. It was suggested then that he was not because he struggled, albeit unsuccessfully, to resist that which he preached against in others. Barnes seems a much better candidate for this description than did Haggard, who vehemently and openly lobbied against same-sex marriage and other rights for gay people. From what I read, Barnes seems much more genuine. I hope he finds his way through this intact.
Ironically, if not for Haggard, this probably wouldn’t be as big a story. I don’t know much about this guy, but just on the face of it, I feel for him and his family.
I agree with Timothy, David, and John. I feel for the former Pastor Barnes and his family. This just really seems a sad case.
I don’t know Randy Thomas’ heart, and honestly no person does or should (except God if God exists), but I found the quote telling. There was a recent post about Randy’s new relationship, and I wish well for him. Maybe he has overcome homosexuality; maybe he has not. However, seeing this story and Randy’s quote, I have to wonder if this is what the future holds for Randy–a lifetime of struggle and difficulty.
I wish Pastor Barnes and his family well in this difficult time. It is sad indeed.
I must say tho I don’t believe this is the end of ministers coming forth and revealing themselves as having same-sex attractions.
I don’t know Randy Thomas’ heart, and honestly no person does or should (except God if God exists), but I found the quote telling. There was a recent post about Randy’s new relationship, and I wish well for him. Maybe he has overcome homosexuality; maybe he has not. However, seeing this story and Randy’s quote, I have to wonder if this is what the future holds for Randy–a lifetime of struggle and difficulty.
No one can claim to know anyone’s heart or tell anyone that their relationship with Christ is untrue. That matter is between them and God. Unfortunately, some Christians find it necessary to judge the gay community because they feel that they have authority to do so in some way. Not true. Christ himself is judge.
I wish Randy well too. But because he and some others believe that taking on a constant struggle against SSA is the only way to be acceptable to God, which I do not relate to or support, does not mean that everyone else has to conform to that same belief.
My personal understanding from what I have read in ex-gay testimonies and former ex-gay testimonies is that SSA still continue while they are in heterosexual marriages or the entire time they claim to be ex-gay. I must confess I don’t quite understand it myself for the need to struggle against desires that I believe are natural. But that is just my opinion.
I praise God that I am able to accept myself as a Christian gay man.
Yeah… Hi, I’m ex-gay, would you care to help prove it? – is no longer a necessarily viable pick-up line in conservative religious circles.
Though I suspect that the only way an ex-gay man may have a real relationship with a woman is to be totally upfront about his feelings and sexual orientation. Well, that is what a relationship is about, truthfulness and trust. And that is what men like Haggard & Barnes have most of all been hypocritical about.
Though having considered entering into a marriage with a woman myself, I can understand the need, the almost burning desire that thinks marriage will help to cure you. And then because you were not truthful in the beginning, you cannot be truthful as time goes on, thus you further betray a trust. So you are likely to then step out on that which you know you have already betrayed and find that which offers you solace. So by not acknowledging his homosexual orientation to himself or his spouse, this “self-made ex-gay” man has set himself up for an inevitable fall. That has likely been Haggard and Barnes.
Though I might be guilty of even worse psycholoical generalization than NARTH.
…
Though having considered entering into a marriage with a woman myself, I can understand the need, the almost burning desire that thinks marriage will help to cure you. And then because you were not truthful in the beginning, you cannot be truthful as time goes on, thus you further betray a trust.
I agree with Lij’s comments. I was once married. I thought I wanted what I perceived as being a “normal” life, constantly supressing my true feelings, until I sunk deeper and deeper into depression. Luckily, I ended the marriage, and found myself in the process.
I feel for Mr. Barnes, and what he is going through. Mr. Haggard, I have a more difficult time with because of his anti-gay stance, but it is not my place to judge, so I hope the best for both men.
We can understand the newsworthiness of Haggard and, to a lesser degree, Barnes. There is an undercurrent and maybe nefarious effort at ‘outing’ married and supposedly straight actors/politicians which is making headlines. Then we have featured on NBC Dateline “To Catch a Predator” the many who are married and making solicitation of minors a prime-time titillating feature to watch on TV.
The tragedy is realizing how rampant the problem is.
Lij said, “Though I suspect that the only way an ex-gay man may have a real relationship with a woman is to be totally upfront about his feelings and sexual orientation.”
I think that Exodus and the ex-gay movement’s practices and twisting of language seriously get in the way of ex-gays being “totally upfront about his feelings and sexual orientation.”
Ex-gays are encouraged to say all sorts of things that make no sense. They create a language specific to themselves that seems deliberately designed to mislead English-speaking Americans. We have had all sorts of discussions about the twisting of language before, so I won’t go into the details, but I have no idea how the average English-speaking prospective spouse of an ex-gay would ever get a real sense of their potential spouses true sexual orientation, as long as the ex-gay used the language of Exodus.
Part of the reason that I see celibacy as a more practical option for people who tend to go the ex-gay route (such as myself) is because marriage just seems, to me, something that shouldn’t be fooled around with. Disputed Mutability recently wrote about her opinions on ex-gay marriage, and of course she should know better than anyone. Mainly, honesty is the biggest issue.
Going into a marriage, aside from there being mutual love and care, I believe both parties should know what to expect from the other–physically and emotionally. Which is why I think ex-gay men tend to marry ex-gay women. I do, however, think an ex-gay person is fully capable of having a lasting marriage with a straight person–so long as honesty is held as the biggest value.
Take me for example. Though I am not going to enter any relationships any time soon, there is a chance that one day I might meet a woman that I am somewhat attracted to, and who shares my beliefs and worldview, and that I just generally like and could come to love. Would I pursue a relationship with her? Only if she would be willing to pursue one with me–and that is with her knowing all of my ins and outs and in-betweens. Let’s face it: I probably will be more attracted to men than I would be to any future wife. But at the same time, many men are more attracted to other women than they are to their wives. It’s not all about physical attraction sometimes.
Simply put, I think such a relationship could work, but as you can see it seems like it would take a person that I think is rather hard to find.
I wish you could change your headline to:
PASTOR DECIDES TO TELL TRUTH
Here is another sad story about a man who tried and tried to live someone else’s life. Now he is going to live his OWN life. More power to him. He’s not “falling”, he’s finally “standing up”!
This happend to me too. I was married, and tried to remain in the church and in the closet; but it eventually became simply impossible to continue to cause pain for myself and others. I only hope that Rev. Barnes and others like him will be welcomed by those of us who have struggled similarly, and that we will be there to help while the community he tried to serve begins to reject him.
He will undoubtedly vacilate while he comes to grips with the seriousness of his situation. Let’s remain welcoming and reach out to him and others like him with open arms.
It’s never easy. (remember???)
Wow. This is interesting news.
I will keep him in my prayers. His is a sad life right now. But let’s hope that this shift ends up being a positive thing for him…and his family.
… Maybe I’m a horrible person, or maybe I just read too much fanfiction, but I’m hoping they could be fixed up and then we can have another Cooper / Bussee sort of thing.
Wayne Besen of Truth Wins Out comments on the Rev. Paul Barnes story here and here.
It is so sad, that so much of Christianity has tied sexual orientation to sexual activity, which leaves a non-heterosexual people feeling condemned. But if sexual orientation is separated from sexual activity, Christianity and the Bible is liberating for the non-heterosexual too. I wish I could email him. I would point him to https://www.mccchurch.org and https://www.godmademegay.com/. I hope he can find true freedom in Christ now.
Rick,
Its wonderful that you did some searches around the net about this issue. That’s more than I can say for others that don’t bother and condemn all the while hiding behind the bible. So kudos to you my friend.
Yes, sexual orientation is not the same as sexual activity. However, I’ve always cringed at the “you can be gay but not act on it” mentality when it comes to conservative Christianity. Simply put, I act on my very nature with another man because that is who I am. Same with heterosexuals. If suddenly things turned around and being heterosexual was not the norm and heterosexuals were told they could not act on their very nature there would be the same resistence by heterosexuals.
I find the very idea that I am being told by some Christians I have to live my life without the possiblity of companionship (or live a lie and marry the opposite sex)to be very depressing. I’m a person that is built to love and express that love within the confines of a monogamous and committed relationship. Its not all about sex. And I wish more people would understand that. Its about caring, loving, support, and building a relationship with someone that you plan to spend the rest of your life with. I’m celibate because I want to wait for a Christian man that I truly love and express that love with. We will worship the Lord together in everything we do as couple.
Thanks for stopping by Rick. May God be at your side while you continue your journey.
Ken R,
I hope you did not misunderstand me.
I now believe that what you want is fully supported in the Bible. And from what you said, I can tell that you are a very strong Christian and one of these days, the Holy Spirit in you will tell you, that guy is the one for me.
A couple of things to remember.
First, going back to the source, “Jesus”, in the 4 Gospel. Notice that it was the religious experts that wanted to kill Jesus the most. The outsiders, considered by the “righteous” Pharisee to be sinners, flocked to Jesus. As far as I can tell, the only time that Jesus was harsh was people, was with the false teachings of the Pharisees (Experts in the Law of God) and with people using religion to ripe off the worshipers at the temple.
Second, that the Lord had to appear to Peter, so that the new Gentile Christians did not have to take up the Jewish way of life.
What I was trying to say that the Bible is always referring to improper sexual activities that damage relationships and others. It never is talking about sexual orientation. Remember that the understanding about sexual orientation has came only recently.
Maybe I am way off base, but to read the Bible, one should read it from a single sexual orientation point of view. Since the Bible is written from a heterosexual point of view, a non heterosexual needs to translate to their point of view.
For example, let take Lev 18:20, which basically says that a man shall not lay with another man as with a woman. First, why would a heterosexual man lie with another man to have sex? I think it would not be because of a loving relationship between the two. Two reasons, I can think of is Rape / Domination and Temple Prostitutes of other religions.
So, if you are a homosexual man, then when you read Lev 18:20, it should be telling you that you should not have sex with a woman. Why, you are not treating the woman right.
I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from. As a heterosexual, I do not walk in your shoes and the last thing I want to do is to cause you more pain. I think you have suffered way too much from fellow “Christians” and I do not want to do that to you.
A Brother In Christ.
Rick,
Thanks for your kind words.
Yes, I did misunderstand your last post. But my feelings were not hurt. So no worries my friend. 😉
I admit I get a little defensive when people say “you can have a gay orientation but you can’t act on it”. Alan Chambers of Exodus goes as far as to declare a “homosexual identity” as sinful. Gays have heard this arguement over and over again and at a certain point it gets real old. At least with me it does. Its not that I give up on the arguement its just that I get tired of trying to justify who I am.
Rick, you pointed out something I never thought of. Looking at the bible from a heterosexual point of view. I always came to the bible as a homosexual man. But the bible for me will always be the “inspired word” and not the “literal word” of God. My faith and strength comes from the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit that descended upon the Apostles (Acts Ch.2 v.1-4). They didn’t need a bible to preach the Good News. It was the Holy Spirit that told them what to do and say. I rely on that same Spirit to guide me as the Apostles once did. As I put my trust in the Lord he gives me what I need. And the greatest thing is I have never been assured of my salvation as I am now!
In closing, I want to say this. Rick, we welcome you into our community. We are not just made up of gay, lesbian, bi, or transgendered individuals. Our community is also made up of accepting straight friends and family.
With Christian Love,
Ken
Maybe I am way off base, but to read the Bible, one should read it from a single sexual orientation point of view. Since the Bible is written from a heterosexual point of view, a non heterosexual needs to translate to their point of view.
For example, let take Lev 18:20, which basically says that a man shall not lay with another man as with a woman. First, why would a heterosexual man lie with another man to have sex? I think it would not be because of a loving relationship between the two. Two reasons, I can think of is Rape / Domination and Temple Prostitutes of other religions.
So, if you are a homosexual man, then when you read Lev 18:20, it should be telling you that you should not have sex with a woman. Why, you are not treating the woman right.
Rick,
I made an error in my post above.
I said:
Rick, you pointed out something I never thought of. Looking at the bible from a heterosexual point of view. I always came to the bible as a homosexual man.
What I should have said was that I never thought of reading the bible in that way before. I’ve never even gave it a second thought that it was heterosexuals writing the bible. Interesting.
Thanks!
Ken,
Here is something to remember, when you run across Christians trying to fix you because they love you.
The Jews that knew the Hebrew scriptures the best during the time of Jesus (Pharisees), were trying to make the Son of God see that he was not the Son of God.
So, I think that Jesus can really relate to you. He has been there and done that.
Up until the US House wasted a week on the Constitutional Amendment defining as marriage being only between a man and a women so that the Republicans could placate the “Conservative Christian Right”, I unfortunately would probably that would have tried to fix you. However, that event, made me realize that something was amiss.
After a significant amount of pondering and some talking to God about it, I realized that the scriptures in this area were being interpreted one way and that I needed to get the other side of the story. The details is part of a posting I made on Daniel’s video. But the point, is that I realized that I was wrong.
So, my wife and I have started to attend our local Metropolitan Community Church. It is small, but you sure can feel God’s incredible love there.
I have told a very dear friend that is a strong Christian at work and she is now very concerned about my view on homosexuality. However, I told her about “The Letter to Louise” at https://www.godmademegay.com that is written by a retired Baptist minister and she has asked to read it and I gave it to her yesterday. (It is 42 pages long) Prayers, thoughts, and meditations for her are very much appreciated.
When I told her, we had a long discussion and it became very clear to me that she was having troubles separating sexual orientation from activities. All her objections were about inappropriate activities and not orientation, even though I kept refocusing her on orientation.
I realize from the discussion with her that sexual activity is so associated with orientation in the US that a lot of heterosexuals have a very hard time separating the two.
I am trying to figure out techniques that would help people see the difference. It is tough, but hey, at one time, Christianity believed that the Sun circled the Earth and even made Galileo deny the truth.
I would also like to thank each one of you that have posted on the different subjects on this site and a special thanks to the writers on the site. You all have validated that my old view was wrong and that my new view is correct and that I am hearing correctly from the Holy Spirit. It ain’t a choice.
You all have my almost respect, because you have had to walk a much tougher path than I have had to.
Thank you.
And Mr. Strickland, I would like to thank you. I sometimes–rather often, in fact–fear that those who cite scripture to attack gays, and deny them rights, have these interpretations of their religion so ingrained that there’s simply no talking to them.
It is reassuring to know that some people do change their minds.
Thank you.
Hi Rick,
I hope your friend has a better understanding after reading, “The Letter to Louise”. More people need to be informed. Most of those that are against what they call the “gay lifestyle” are really only repeating what they have been taught. Some are doing so because of their own personal prejudices.
Two books that are worth reading are Peter Gomes’s The Good Book and John Boswell’s, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality. He discusses the clobber passages in scripture as well as discovering that for the first 1,000 years or so of the church they blessed same sex unions. I haven’t read the book myself but only read the reviews for it. Perhaps its time to actually get this book for myself. I did read The Good Book and I can recommend that book very highly. Very insightful. It not only has a section on homosexuality but Mr. Gomes also discusses how the church used the bible to justify their prejudices regarding slavery, women, and Jews.
Jesus worried the Pharisees. He was about liberation from the Law which was the only thing that gave the Pharisees any sort of control over the masses. Does this sound like what is happening today with some Christians and politics?
“I have not come to destroy the Law but to fullfill.” (Matthew 5 v.17)
And Jesus had done so upon the cross. The Law was fullfilled in him and the new Commandments of loving God and one another was given in its place which is nothing new really since these very beliefs are from the Old Testament as well.
If more Christians spent their time looking within themselves and worrying about their own spiritual state rather than someone elses we as Christians can get some things done to make this a better world. Too many are too worried about what others are doing. No one has the authority to judge another person’s heart. This includes those I disagree with regarding this issue.
Ken
This I find interesting:
What we really need to look at is the crux of the problem. You see, I’m comming from a different perspective. Christianity “is” a manipulation. Its been used and abused since its inception. I could care less about being a Christian. I don’t care what the Christian community thinks about me or whether they accept me or not. The problem with these homosexuals is that they want to be part of the Christian church. Well, good for them. They are greedy, wanting a career Americans who feel that they have to hide who they are to get that almighty dollar. I do not feel a bit sorry for them. They walked in with their eyes wide open and their lives closed shut. America is free of religion and if someone is foolish enough to believe a manipulated tainted belief mechanism, then they deserve the homophobia that spews forward on them. Live your lives people!
PW
PW,
This sort of angry, judgmental, and vilifying rant does very little to gain respect or support for your opinion.
PW,
As a heterosexual, it amazes me that any in the queer community would have anything to do with Christianity, considering that it seems that the most vocal part of “Christianity” is homophobic and queer nasty.
I am sorry that your angry and pain towards straight Christianity have flowed over to queer Christians.
The majority of queer Christians are not greedy, because the pain they receive from “Christians”, is not worth all the money in the world.
They are Christians because they believe that they have met the real Jesus and have a relationship with their creator and believe that their queer orientation is blessed by God.
To survive and thrive, many live a life closer to that of Jesus, than most straight Christian. Just like you, they make mistakes and do wrong. And like you, they want to be better persons and members of society and believe that Jesus is helping them to be better persons.
PW, have you had any positive experiences with queer Christians?
PW,
I wouldn’t call Christianity a “manipulation” but rather religion that has manipulated and attached itself to the faith. You see PW, I personally believe that Christianity is a faith and not a religion. Christ didn’t come down to establish a religion based on him but rather spoke about faith and hope in him and the Father. Keeping the Commandments of loving God and one another above all else. Everything else attached to Christianity is man-made doctrine which tends to divide the faithful. We can see that with the splits between the East and Western Rites of Catholic Christianity in 1054 AD, the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, and now the splits in the Episcopal Church with the more conservative churches leaving the union.
As a Christian gay man I accept Christ because I believe in his word. I believe in life eternal. I hope in the resurrection at the end of the world. If I didn’t have faith in God above I’d seriously would be lost. There would be nothing to hope for. I don’t hide who I am and if there are Christians that hate me because I am gay then so be it. There are still those Christians that are racists. They haven’t changed. There will always be those that hate gays whether they are “born gay” or not. That is just the way the world is. We have to rise above that. Sure its hard but no one ever said life would be easy.
One of the things that keeps me going is that no one can judge my faith in Christ. No one. There is not one person on this earth that can actually tell me I’m not going to heaven. The church (church = the people) does not have the power or the authority to tell me if I am saved or not. That is between God and I. So it really doesn’t matter whether they accept me or not. 😉
I do not hold anyone in contempt for their beliefs or their faith. That would be disrespectful. Am I ranting? You’d better believe it!
Let’s look at something as it is and not as someone interprets it for their own edification. All the homophobia that these heterosexual and homosexual pastors spew is based on quotes from the Old Testament which were directed towards the Children of Israel and not the world. Nuff said.
Now we have in the New Testament a man Jesus of Nazareth who preaches love not loathe for one another, doesn’t have a relationship with a women (as far as the gospels are concerned) is running around with twelve men and never says anything against homosexuality and this sight is trying to market an “exgay” phenomenon. No thanks.
If there are homosexuals who want to be a part of a homophobic religion that preaches hate, racism, classism and murder (The evangelicals pushing the Iraqi occupation) then go right ahead and bury your heads in the sand and leave us free thinkers alone.
Your Christian belief represents all riches and success in an after-life that may or may not happen. I don’t believe a word of it and the Christians can’t prove a thing. Not one iota. Just be kind and stop trying to rule the world by insighting fear of your God upon others. It’s beginning to crumble.
I’d rather help a person in need then sit in a pew awaiting a second coming where your heaven’s description resembles an upscale jewelry store. No thanks people. I chose life.
You should be ashamed of yourselves for wanting acceptance in a religion that doesn’t accept you as you are. Your trying to change people or should I say “help” them to ignore their DNA proves my point. It’s wrapped up your “need to be” whatever that is.
PW
PW,
I do not understand. Do you think this is a site for those who have been gay and are trying to go straight?
Rick S.
Its not too surprising if PW and others think this is an anti-gay site. The religion is awfully thick here and as Rick Strickland pointed out the prominent voice of Christianity is anti-gay bigotry.
To Rick:
I just do not understand America’s affinity with Christianity. Rick, the issues on this site tend to deal with the Christian Church’s homophobia. I agree with Randi, in that this site appears to be directed towards a “healing” of homosexuality through an emphasis on Christian ethics. Especially when we are discussing Haggard and Barnes as both Christian pastors. Rick, I guess I need to ask this question. Are Christian ethics a part of the “exgay” healing process? And also, could you please explain your word usage. What is “queer”? As far as I’m concerned, that’s an insult. Again, Christian discussion is all over this site.
What I am trying to introduce to the discussion is whether or not this Christian belief system is actually valid. I never chose Christianity. I was raised in a Christian family and I’d like to meet a child that was converted. Doesn’t exist. However, there are plenty of children who’ve been indoctrinated. Well, I’m over that and I feel that Christianity is methodical in maintaining White Male supremacy and I think that heterosexual white males as well as homosexual white males want a piece of the pie.
Look at how Christianity as been introduced to the world. The first caveat that’s dangled in the faces of the curious is the promise of wealth and riches, a better life. So I ask, didn’t our founding fathers include the Freedom of Religion in the Constitution to avoid exactly what we have today?
I think that this whole Christianity thing is a manipulation to persuade all Americans that if they aren’t for Christ, they’re not patriotic. Our Pledge of Allegiance includes “One Nation under God” and not ‘One Nation under Jesus Christ’. American homosexuals should recognize that the only phenomenon that holds them down and makes them second class citizens in this country is the Bible and we all know how it has been manipulated.
I am very happy to have had the opportunity to voice my opinion concerning the manipulation and hypocrisy that Christianity has spread. I think it’s better if I cease from leaving responses here because I just don’t find any reason to accept Christian values or discuss them. They’re too tainted.
I will also add that being African-American, I have done extensive study on slavery and it was through Christian beliefs that Africans were taught that it was God’s plan for them to be slaves. For that reason I cannot imagine why African-Americans would embrace Christianity with such fervor but they do.
The same goes for the homosexual population. Why are so many homosexuals hell bent on being accepted by the Christian Church. I really think it’s the same issue. Blacks wanted to assimilate into white society and now homosexuals want to assimilate into heterosexual society by being active members in their churches.
I think people need to be a bit more free thinking and independent. No one, and I mean no one on this earth has any keys to anyone else’s salvation. I guess lots of people would be left with a void without being part of the Judeo-Christian community. I, myself have no need for it. I am free of religion per the Constitution of the USA.
PW
Randi said:
Its not too surprising if PW and others think this is an anti-gay site. The religion is awfully thick here and as Rick Strickland pointed out the prominent voice of Christianity is anti-gay bigotry.
That’s an absurd statement Randi. It is rare when anyone mistakes this site for anti-gay, and then only when they come in from a Google search and don’t read the material. Faith is a large part of the human equation, certainly concerning ex-gay issues, but scanning even our headlines for a moment would clear up the idea of whether or not we are anti-gay.
We are against bigotry of any sort, anti-gay bigotry and anti-faith bigotry included.
PW said:
What I am trying to introduce to the discussion is whether or not this Christian belief system is actually valid.
The purpose of this site, which so far as I can tell has escaped you entirely, does not include the above. We are not here to validate or invalidate anyone’s faith – period. In the course of discussing Ex-Gay issues and the politics surounding them, we definitely evaluate how the Church and personal faith are involved. But we do so without passing judgement on the beliefs of others.
There are certainly places on the web which invite such arguments, and I would encourage you to find one if you wish to continue. I would also suggest you take the time to find out who they are and what they are about before commenting. You have misjudged us entirely.
Since these threads are supposed to be auto-closing after 15 days anyway, I’m closing this one. The recent posts are off topic, while the attitude and content is largely at odds with the guidelines and purpose of this site.