Alan Chambers and the “leadership team of Exodus” have a new book out titled “God’s Grace And the Homosexual Next Door: A Guide to Overcoming Barriers And Misunderstandings, Getting to Know the Real Person, Offering God’s New Life.” Pre-orders are being taken at Amazon.com. I requested a review-copy from the Harvest House publicist but haven’t received anything. If any XGW readers have media credentials feel free to request a copy here and pass it along to me cos I’ll be damned if Exodus is getting a cent from me.
E
Well, he begins by referring to “the homosexual,” and that’s always a real bad way to start. He knows how real LGBT people feel about that term, too.
I’m afraid I don’t have high hopes for this.
Hey! Wait a sec. I’m a “real” LGBT (OK, just “G”) and I kinda like the term “homosexual” — yes, I know that it has some negative clinical, historical and cultural overtones, but at least it is descriptive — meaning attracted to the same sex. I decided to reclaim it, minus the pejorative implications.
I thought they didn’t believe in homosexuals, only “broken heterosexuals.”
for me, this word much like male and female, sounds bad when used as a noun. but that’s just me.
great blog, BTW. I make it a habit to visit it on my blog rounds.
The phrase “the homosexual” is dehumanizing, which is their intention by using it.
I agree with Jayelle and gordo. It’s not the word, it’s the phrase “the homosexual”, that bugs me. It sounds like he’s narrating some show on the Discovery channel, describing a species, rather than people.
‘Homosexual’ is fairly neutral in connotation to me. ‘The Homosexual’ basically states that the person is the summation of their sexual preference, it’s dehumanizing and makes it easier for another human being to hold negative feelings towards ‘The Homosexual’ In their eyes, they’re not thinking of another living, breathing, loving person, rather they see somebody who embodies a single idea.
The same thing can be done with other words too! ‘The Gays’ ‘The Whites’ ‘The Long Noses’
By referring to “The Homosexual” we become a category and cease to be people.
Michael, I’m sorry to have assumed for everyone.
Bill S, I am now singing the Bloodhound Gang’s The Bad Touch. As in, “You and me baby ain’t nothin’ but mammals, so let’s do it like they do on the Discovery Channel.” My wife and I both thank you. 😛
Offering “practical and biblical insights”…
Such as, “five things not to do in reaching out to gays”
Right… well, Alan, you may begin that list with not misrepresenting them to your anti-gay, heterosexual, audience. That pisses us off. And we know you do that in the book because of who you and your four collegues use as reference material. eg:
Yeah. Right. You mean this Judith Resiman?
Oh, should have told you where that was from. Yes, that would help. The excerpt.
Meaningless drivel, except to tell us how we’re to be attacked.
Yeah, count me in as another who dislikes the wording “The Homosexual.” It’s Stephen Bennett’s favorite title for us, and his website and podcast are where I first learned to despise it.
I get what you all are saying. It’s “THE homosexual” that is objectionable — as though this described a sub-species or something. I prefer to use homosexual as an adjective — as in, I used to think I was “Ex-gay”, but know I realize I’m happy with who I am — a homosexual Christian.
I have never heard that some gay-identified people disliked the word homosexual in any context. Too late for the book, but glad to know for future reference.
Y’all, should I laugh, cry, throw up, or just bang my head on the keyboard? I can’t decide.
Alan’s comment suggests extreme forgetfulness (or worse) — I have personally told him and other Exodus board members several times (as have others at the Bridges Across project in which Alan is a periodic participant) that the use of “homosexual” as a noun is offensive and self-contradictory.
Antigay activists who use the word in this fashion are doing precisely what they falsely accuse same-sex-attracted persons of doing: Reducing a person to the sum of their sex drive and making that *the* defining characteristic of the person.
To be fair, however, if people are going to be sensitive about the use of “homosexual” as a noun, then shouldn’t they be sensitive about the use of “heterosexual,” “gay” and “straight” as nouns?
Alan,
Rule #1: know your subject.
Rule #2: don’t call yourself an expect if you do not.
Firstly, the disquiet is over use of “the homosexual”. Not “homosexual” in any context. Read. Placing “the” in front turns the subject into an object.
Secondly, given how long issues with the deliberate use and non-use of particular words has gone on — including from within Exodus — I find your claim of ignorance to be as believeable as if you were to express astonishment that “some” people don’t like to be refered to as “colored” in 2006.
(By the way: they don’t like.)
And thank-you Mike A. I was going to go to exactly that place for a link. 🙂
“Forgetful”??? I think you are being way too generous.
Alan,
Are you trying to tell us that this book is about how to reach gay people for Christ and you don’t even know that the term The Homosexual is offensive to the audience you wish to reach?
That has all of the credibility of a book titled: “Diversity in Church – Reaching The Orientals and the Coloreds.”
Either you are amazingly ignorant and unqualified to write about reaching gay people, or this book is not at all intended for the purposed you pretend.
If you really are serious about evangelizing to gays and lesbians, you don’t start out by offending them.
It is this sort of disconnect between what you say and what is readily observable that makes us question your integrity.
“To be fair, however, if people are going to be sensitive about the use of “homosexual” as a noun, then shouldn’t they be sensitive about the use of “heterosexual,” “gay” and “straight” as nouns?”
Mike, I would also not like it if he were talking about “The Gays”.
If Alan were sincere, he would talk about reaching gay people: God’s Grace and your Gay Neighbor.
But I think that the word “neighbor” may bring into mind Jesus’ use of the word neighbor… It might suggest that you have to love them as yourself and stop trying to take away health insurace, hospital visitation, employment protection and anti-bullying.
It’s much more politically expedient to call him The Homosexual Next Door. That’s a much scarier notion.
I have never heard that some gay-identified people disliked the word homosexual in any context.
You don’t listen much then, do you?
The problem with ‘homosexual’ (let alone “The homosexual”), is that in most of the contexts you saw it being used prior to Stonewall it reduced us to the size of our libidos, and there is more to a human being then their libido. That’s why a lot of us started insisting on ‘Gay’. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with homosexual when it’s used in that specific sexual context, just when its use is indended to describe the whole of a person. As in…well…”the homosexual”.
I saw a cable guide description once of the film “Latter Days” that read in part “A young Mormon missionary has a homosexual relationship after moving from Idaho to Los Angles.” No. There was more to it then sex, more to their feelings for each other then sexual desire, or they wouldn’t have both endured what they did. On the other hand, “A young Mormon missionary comes to terms with his homosexuality after falling in love with another man.” would have been ok.
Still…there are gay folks who will disagree with me on that. If you haven’t heard us talking about “gay” verses “homosexual” before now, then…well…what does that say about how serious you are about the subject? It’s not like gay people have arguments about this stuff whispering to each other in private.
In the bruhaha over the term “the homosexual” (which I agree is justified), I think we’re missing the point of the book, which is more sinister. Granted, none of us has read it yet, but the title is a clear indication of the book’s intent.
I thought Exodus was all about assisting those with unwanted same-sex attractions. I thought that Exodus leaders had repeatedly said that they had no interest in trying to change those GLBT people who were happy living as they were.
It’s clear from the title of the book that this is nothing but a lie.
The title sounds all wonderful and peaceful and nice with words like “God’s grace” and “overcoming” and “real” and “heart,” but it’s obvious from the title that the book will make no distinction between unhappy people who are fighting same-sex attractions and happy homosexuals who are comfortable with who they are and have no desire to be anything different. (If that isn’t the case, then why is the book titled so broadly?)
Given Exodus’ recent cozying up to the political arm of the religious right in recent years, I see three reasons for the existence of this book:
1. A recruiting tool for Exodus
You see, “the homosexual” next door may appear to be happy but just in case they might not be, Exodus will be there to save them, and we must tell them this.
2. A pretext to denying GLBT people civil rights
You see, if “the homosexual” next door is happy and loves his partner, and they have two adorable little dogs and they take care of their house (it’s the nicest in the neighborhood) and they’re thinking about adopting a special-needs child, well… we must inform them about God’s grace and tell them that they can change. And if they reject this loving, sincerely-presented message that their “lifestyle” can be changed and they’ll be even happier than they are even now, then they only have themselves to blame for when I decide to push a voter initiative to take away all their domestic partner rights. I mean, I’m only protecting God’s sacred union of marriage, and if they were only willing to accept “God’s grace” in this area of their life, they could be on my side and sign the petition with me as well. And then we’d have one less gay couple in the neighborhood to deal with. And then my life would be more comfortable, because that’s what living as a Christian in America is all about. My personal comfort level.
3. A justification of Exodus’ recent tactics
Exodus has been justly criticized by individuals within and without Exodus about their alliance with the religious right’s political aims. If Alan can put a smiley face on their tactics–because it’s not really about denying rights or letting adults in our society make their own choices, it’s about “expressing God’s grace” and “overcoming misunderstandings”–then he can continue to feel justified that they are doing the right thing. Just reading the title of this book, I don’t see any difference between Fred Phelps and Alan Chambers. The message is the same–you’re wrong and you must change–it’s just that it is presented with more socially acceptable language, that’s all.
If there is a clear turning point in the transformation of the Exodus organization into a full-fledged political organization, this book is it, just based on the title alone.
“To be fair, however, if people are going to be sensitive about the use of “homosexual” as a noun, then shouldn’t they be sensitive about the use of “heterosexual,” “gay” and “straight” as nouns?”
I really haven’t noticed those other words being used as nouns to dehumanize others. If we’re really going to be fair, we have to approach the subject from the basis that the objection comes not even so much from the usage as from the usage as a way of dehumanizing others.
Every so often I see Mr. Chambers appears on these threads. He posts a comment and then never returns to the dialogue, he starts.
Over the past few years he has made some of the most offensive comments about GLBT people that anyone has made. Yet he shows up here worried he used the wrong word in his book and plays dumb to the fact the word “homosexual” is offensive? GLADD has had their media guide posted on their site for years telling people what language is appropriate. If Mr. Chambers is such the expert on all things gay, wouldn’t he have read this media guide?
This is the same person who says GLBT people don’t have real loving, committed relationships. THis is the same man who changes the numbers of ex-gay from 100s, to thousands, to millions at the drop of a hat. He can’t get the story straight, let alone write a book on the strory. This is the same man who says we are not equal to heterosexuals.
This is the same man who said “But as a property owner of Orlando, I wouldn’t rent to someone who is gay any more than I would rent to a person who is a practicing witch.”
Do you really believe this same man is worried about using offensive language? Mr. Chambers may be a good heart, but his actions are nothing short of evil and immoral.
He is far from an authority on GLBT people. He has proven again and again, he know little about us. Exodus International is nothing more than a hate group. While those that run it may be wonderful people, their actions are immoral, wrong and misguided.
I would love for Mr. Chambers to apologize for some of the just aweful and mean spirited things he has said about GLBT people, but his first move should be to admit, he knows little about us and certainly not enough to write a book on how to talk to us. He doesn’t know how to talk to us, so how could he possibly write a book advising others on the subject.
I would have so much more respect for this man, and his work if he would just be honest, truthful and learn more about GLBT people before speaking, writing, and certainly beore trying to “reach out”.
Now that I have violated most of my beliefs about nonviolence in this tirade, I will apologize for being mean to Mr. Chambers. Sorry, I am just in a bad mood today, but don’t think that changes anything I have said!
I don’t expect anyone here to give me the benefit of the doubt, but for the record I do not recall that homosexual as a noun was offensive–especially not to the degree that the posts following mine suggest.
I am glad to know it and I will do my absolute best not to use it as a noun again. Actually, I am trying to use gay-identified wherever possible.
And, my point wasn’t ever to dehumanize.
Lastly, the book title was a compromise between the publisher and me. Using “Gay Neighbor” would have been much preferred. However, there is a book out that they felt was too close to that title: THe Homosexual is THy Neighbor.
Mike, Jayelle, others….
If you have shared this information with me before, please forgive me for not remembering or not listening!
You cannot really expect me to believe Alan, that you are in the least bit worried about saying or writing something offensive to GLBT people. Your history of aweful things to say about us blocks any sincerity you may actually hold.
The list of horrible and offensive things you have said over the years make it impossible for me to believe your sincerity.
Offensive is different to me then untruthful, Joe. I imagine that I have and will continue to offend you and others with my beliefs, but I do care about being untruthful.
Does Alan really think that there aren’t any gays who are already Christians? I think that the good folks at the MCC would be surprised…
Let us always remember that the motivation for books of this nature is to create an atmosphere of hostility for gays and lesbians. Its goal is to perpetuate the falsehood that sexual orientation is mutable and that gays and lesbians are “sinners” who must be “brought to God.” It also perpetuates a mindset that one cannot be a “true Christian” unless one believes in the same way that evangelicals and fundamentalists do.
God, please save me from your followers…..
If you care about being truthful, lets look at the Exodus site. Let’s talk about telling the whole truth and not just what suits your needs. Your site paints a picture of gays that only focuses on negative pictures. THat isn’t the whole truth.
It is deception by omission, and that is the same as a lie. It is being untruthful. If you care about it so sincerely, than change it and tell the whole truth.
Mr. Chambers, I spent a lot of years working as a performer. And recently worked for the LAPD, in the forensic photography unit.
It’s important to note that because it’s the part of law enforcement where you are a first responder to a fresh incident.
I’ve been privy to the most depraved and extreme of human behaviors and what people are capable of doing to one another, to children.
Sociopathy has different degrees. Religious people or those who claim one, can justify anything it seems, for the sake of it.
Yours and many religious leaders and organization’s preoccupation with gay people to my mind is not only strange, but in itself, very destructive.
YOUR behavior is definitely chosen. It’s a matter of opinion and there is no government enforcement of how a person can pursue their religious life.
But, Mr. Chambers, the way you go about your business is you take long held beliefs, stereotype and old fears and misunderstandings about gay people and spin it into a ‘mission of compassion’, as if it’s for the gay person’s benefit and support.
Your requirement to act is that a person is gay, that’s all.
You and your organization don’t care that one doesn’t ‘learn’ gay behavior from books, family structure or culture.
As evidenced by the universality of gay persons, REGARDLESS of where they are in the world or family they come from.
Therefore it’s IMPOSSIBLE for being gay to be a choice.
It’s heteros who have to make a choice and take responsibility as to whether they want to make gay people fearful, uncomfortable and withhold human rights and equal standards regarding gay people and their shared lives and integration into all of society.
The ‘unwanted’ feelings are a calculation by the straight world Mr. Chambers.
This discomfort isn’t inborn in the gay person, it’s placed there by people like you.
Recruitment into Christian life is also a calculation. No one is born Christian or any other religion. It’s an indoctrination manifested from childhood.
Some families let their children alter their beliefs as they see fit, but it’s not often that it’s done without challenge or conflict.
Still, look around you Mr. Chambers, your chosen religious life challenged PUBLIC schools to accept that gay children MUST be told about YOUR organization’s beliefs.
That you exist and in the spirit of fairness, have to challenge gay supportive clubs and parents.
Of course, that’s been a tradition of the ANTI GAY to NEVER let the voices of those who accept gay children and gay support be heard.
This isn’t new.
What’s new is the openness and honesty in which gay people wish to have their lives be expressed.
Your organization doesn’t respect a person’s choice to be happy as a gay person, but seeks allies to thwart that option.
Otherwise you wouldn’t take in children or support programs to go after young people BEFORE they’ve decided for themselves.
Books and films are directed at ‘prevention’ and ‘alternative options’ for leading a gay life at all.
Gay people have YET to speak for themselves when they are young. Efforts to reach gay youth and their peers and prevent anti gay programs are challenged CONSTANTLY.
You are a part of the challenge to marriage for gay people and security for their children.
As a straight person, I’m SICK TO DEATH with being bombarded with what I know are lies, fear mongering and distortion.
YOU treat me like I”m stupid and can’t know better than YOU.
Hiding behind religious belief (which is a MORE destructive lifestyle with the world wars to prove it) as if it’s perfect, can’t be challenged and is rightful to interfere with the lives of people who really don’t have much choice but to go along, because you engage in aggressive campaigns.
Your religious life obviously hasn’t made you especially wise or morally correct.
You’re barely interesting.
You ex gays are boring as hell, all you can talk about is gay is bad this and gay is unwanted that.
You work hard to make people BELIEVE it, but they really don’t HAVE to.
I know when someone is playing with my mind…and when someone played with YOURS, you didn’t have the ability to resist it.
I resent all this court time, money and effort spent to challenge gay people.
It’s a WASTE. I can say that because I don’t see any evidence that your age old techniques have done any wide range good at ALL.
And all around us, there are much higher priorities and much greater concerns that plague EVERYONE, than whether or not someone is gay.
Gay people don’t affect your life AT ALL.
You take more offense at their existence and what they do with it, than what STRAIGHT people do that affects all of us.
Your priorities are SICK and WORTHLESS frankly.
Keep on, but I’m not impressed with your religious convictions.
Indeed, your fanaticism is weird. Really weird.
Sure, what the world REALLY needs is more STRAIGHT people.
Well, WHY?
You know, I really wonder what Alan’s reaction, or the reaction of any “pro-family” proponent, would be if the aim and title of this book were a little different. For instance, it could be a book written for Roman Catholics to bring sinners back to the “true” church, something like:
God’s Grace And the Heretic Next Door: A Guide to Overcoming Barriers And Misunderstandings, Getting to Know the Real Person, Offering God’s New Life.
with heretics, of course, being all those Protestants who have rejected the only valid message of Christ, which is available only from the original Christian Church. I could imagine chapters on how to fight legally against recognition of the “marriages” into which these sinning heretics enter, particularly those that follow a “divorce,” which can never be recognized by the one true Church, or how to ensure that good Catholic children are not exposed to the “lie” that heretics are human beings deserving of respect. Something tells me that such a book would not earn the praise of Mr. Chambers et. al.
Because that is what our fight is really all about – being respected enough as adults to make our own decisions and form our lives our own way. As part of that, of course, our neighbors have to see us as total people – as different and varied as any other group. Talking about “the Homosexual,” like there was only one kind, is exactly the opposite of that.
Mr. Chambers, I am a homosexual, but I am also an Irish-American, an economist, a health care quality expert, a former weekend athlete (cartiledge damage, and the gay bashing I suffered in 2004, ended that),a fanatic for the Boston Red Sox & New England Patriots, a lover of the writing of Jane Austen and Edith Wharton, a german car admirer, and a member of Phi Beta Kappa. I suspect anyone using your book to approach me (and to “win me over” for your heretical views of Christianity) would be hard-pressed to find any useful advice about how to approach me as an individual.
Alan,
If you were truly concerned with being truthful, I would have little problem with you (other than your harmful political activism). And by “truthful” I don’t mean compliant with a particular brand of religion that self defines whatever it believes as truth. By truthful, I mean factual and observable and not deceptive.
Please realize that Exodus and yourself have a long well-documented history of saying things that are not supported by objective fact. And even when some of your claims can be supported, they are often couched in terms that are deceptive.
Take, for example, the claim about “hundreds of thousands”. You never say it in a way that lets the reader or audience know the facts. It always sounds like hundreds of thousands of gay people call you each year looking for a way out of a homosexual lifestyle. And that simply isn’t true. Please stop suggesting this.
Or when you say “thousands of former homosexuals like myself”. Alan, you and all of us here all know that for the most part, there are few if any former homosexuals – in the terms that the world uses: i.e. no longer attracted to the same sex. It makes me think that your goal isn’t about helping those who want to pursue a life consistent with their beliefs but instead is about achieving political aims and fooling legislators.
I have no gripe about how you live your life of how you choose to serve God. But please stop the campaign of deception. Really, Alan, you don’t think God is looking for you to play spin doctor for him, do you?
If you told the truth about “change” really being about religious conversion and about will power and not at all about attraction, and the truth about your hundreds of thousands of contacts really being from pastors and not from gay people, and stopped telling wild exagerations about “the homosexual lifestyle”, you would more easily be believed when you say that you were unaware that you were being offensive.
I, for one, would love to reach a place where those of us who disagree about the morality of homosexuality could at least agree on the facts. Think of how much easier your ministry would be if you really had an honest and objective understanding of gay people, what they are like, how their community responds, and what is completely offensive to them.
But this would require that you place honesty at a greater premium than political expediency. And I’m just not seeing it at this time. You would have to focus less on anti-gay political campaigns and more on getting to know real gay people. Not caracatures, but genuine living breathing gay people. Not ex-gays, not strugglers, not unhappy people seeking change, not anti-gay ministers, but real gay people.
I’m being sincere when I say that I wish there was honest dialog. And transparency. But it really is up to you, Alan.
“a fanatic for the Boston Red Sox”
Joe, I liked you until then. Go Dodgers!!
😉
Alan, I doubt anyone here could give a damn about your beliefs.
It’s your bare-faced lies that we have a problem with — the ones you tell to your “Christian audience”, and imagine we’d never notice.
You just did it here. (No, I do not accept you are forgetful, not on this. And don’t blame the editor either, you use “the homosexual” throughout that excerpt. You use that terminology because that is how anti-gay conservative Christians refer to us. Randy Thomas — your co-author — is also fully aware of the offensiveness of the terminology and the usage.)
Perhaps you’ve also forgotten about the occassion you claimed to an audience that there were no long-term gay couples — despite this being utterly false, as you well know personally; again from Bridges Across. And you continued that lie here.
Stupid, unnecessary lies.
When someone starts making stupid unnecessary lies it points to a much deeper problem. They leads others to come to but one conclusion.
Mate, you are a fake. And a life built on fabrication and deceipt is not one many would aspire to.
But back to your beliefs: you think He is watching you, always, don’t you? Why don’t you start acting accordingly?
Timothy, Alan was caught spinning the truth (lying) JUST TODAY by Good As You.
https://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2006/08/family_news_eh_.html
He completely misrepresented a domestic violence study to bolster his bias.
And lest we forget Alan coming here and commenting on the fact that PUBLICLY AVAILABLE property information was “no big deal” but turning around and writing about being intimidated by “gay activists” in an Exodus fundraising letter.
God doesn’t like lies and I have a feeling he’s not too keen on spin either.
Need we remind everyone…
Weird..I was just about to make a comment, and as I refreshed, a link to my site popped up above. That being the case, I do want to clarify Scott’s above comment and link to G-A-Y. In my post, I was pointing out that ‘Family News in Focus’ was falsely and maliciously using The National Violence Against Women Survey to show high rates of domestic violence in gay partnerships. It’s possible that Alan’s random quotes in the article were made in the abstract, and he had no clue that the Focus on the Family writer was going to use The National Violence Against Women Survey. Either way — the intent of all involved was definitley duplictious.
Now on to what I was going to say: I use the term homosexual on the site frequently for a very pointed reason. I feel that our opposition likes to imply that the word gay is just PR and that we have something to hide by not using the word ‘homosexual.’ Since I directly challenge them on their rhetoric, I (as some of the above said) use it to sort of reclaim the word and to let them know that we’re not scared of it. Just my two cents.
Alan, I won’t belabour the point that truthfulness is not a big priority for you. I think that has been shown quite eloquently by the past 10 posts.
I will point out that what all these lies, misrepresentations, deceptions and weasels show is that you are probably least qualified to write a book about “Reaching the Heart of the Gay Men and Women in Your World”. After all, it is impossible to reach the heart of any group that you’ve already alienated with lies.
Even the AP style guide has been update to advise writers to avoid using the term “homosexual” except in clinical instances when describing sexual practices.
I blogged about it a while back here: https://someguysarenormal.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-ap-style.html
The gay community aside, did no one editing this book come across the AP guide? They wrote a whole book about gay people and didn’t even try to look this up.
My question to Alan–If I believe that this was an unintended mistake by you–you have to admit it is a fairly big one. Why should I (or anyone) consider you an expert on how to minister to gay people when you don’t even know what term they (and most of society) prefer to use?
True repentance requires more than simply saying “I’m sorry” while allowing the harm that one has done to go forward unimpeded. Repentance requires self-sacrifice for the welfare of one’s neighbors.
As a Christian, I call upon Mr. Chambers to rescind his appeal for cheap forgiveness and instead to demonstrate true repentance.
For those who think a title doesn’t matter, look at the fuss made by a recent movie with the very descriptive title “Snakes on a Plane.” The title made people laugh because it was just so blunt. My mother and my wife, who are both afraid of snakes *and* planes, knew they didn’t want to see that movie based on the title alone–it gave them a real good idea of what they were getting.
This title also gave me a very good idea of what our conservative Christian relatives, co-workers, and neighbors will be getting. The excerpt and Mr. Chambers’ protestations have not swayed me in the least. Of course somebody’s gonna have to read the whole thing in order to really understand it, and there could be surprises inside. But like my wife when she accompanied me to “Snakes on a Plane,” I sincerely doubt it and I expect *very* little.
I suggest he title his next book “Snakes in the Grass.” Let’s see if Mr. Chambers forgets that one.
What does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world (wife, family, house, prominent position, recognition) and lose his own soul?
So where is Alan to address these thing? Will he be stopping by with some apology for the gay community?
gee, i guess in addition to not realizing how offensive a reference to “the homosexual” might be to gay and lesbian people, mr. chambers must also not be familiar with ‘Truth One’ of Love in Action’s creedo:
“There is no such thing as a homosexual!” (from their website)
so a representative of one ex-gay ministry refers to “the homosexual” while another claims there’s no such thing… brilliant! i love it. incidentally, Love in Action doesn’t even like the term “ex-gay.” i think the folks at Love in Action may be onto something.
we all know that “homosexuals” as a conceptual category did not really exist prior to the turn of the last century, right? prior to that, societies generally recognized behaviors rather than categories. while gay (and lesbian along with bi and trans) identity has served us well in forging a group consciousness for the purpose of fighting oppression, perhaps we’re moving into a post-gay world–a world in which same-sex attraction is no longer used to define a person.
it’s quite fascinating to watch these folks spin their wheels around terminology as if redefining the terms and playing with language is somehow going to change anybody. let’s hope for lots more dissension in their ranks.
My understanding is that there is NO agreement amongst EXODUS types regarding terminolgy. That’s the problem here. The question “can gays change?” depends ENTIRELY on what you mean by “gay” and what you mean by “change”. A recent post by an avowed “Ex-gay” said “It means whatever the person using it WANTS it to mean.” Didn’t the hooka-smoking catepillar say something similar?
Let’s face it. It’s a complete mess — created largely by EXODUS and their stubborn refusal (or inability) to define terms. I believe the semantic “smoke-screen” has sometimes been intentional — to disguise the fact that the orientation does not change. Even their own leaders admit that “Ex-gay” does not mean” ex-homosexual” — just a person who wished he didn’t have the “tendencies”. (Joe Dallas)
I have met many “Ex-gays” who actually had MORE gay sex AFTER becoming an “Ex-gay” because they finally had a church-sanctioned way of meeting other guys like them. I am one such person.
Another client told me he had only pedophilic masturbatory fantasies (no person-to-person contact with either gender and no heterosexual feelings) He insisted he was “Ex-gay” even though his attractions to young boys had not diminished at all over the years.
But, as Robbi Kenney of EXODUS admitted, “EXODUS has ALWAYS had a problem with definitions.”
Frank Worthen of LIA actually believes that words and labels have saving (or condemning) power — he said so in his 1991 LIA newsletter.
I hope that Alan’s decision to dump the word “Ex-gay” may help. Who knows?
Alan Chambers said:
I don’t expect anyone here to give me the benefit of the doubt,
In all sincerity Alan, what have you done to deserve that benefit?
If one is assured in one’s belief of oneself and what he/she stands for, it seems to me that name calling would only be an irritation. You posters are surely showing your insecurity here! You are what you are as I am what I am! Peace will come when you accept this. Why do you get so upset with the other side. When the straight people get your agenda pushed in their face in just about every movie they go to! But they are suppose to grow up and take it with a grain of salt as well! Grow up and quit whinning!!!!!
oops failed to look at posting dates! I just was looking at the book in question and came upon this site. Looks like iterest has been lost, good thing! : )
oops failed to look at posting dates!
Trust me, that’s not all you failed to look at. Why don’t you spend a few days (or even weeks) reviewing the archives of this site and then perhaps you can make an informed post. If you do, I’m sure someone will be happy to respond to any sincere, germane comments you might have.