Press release issued today by Evangelicals Concerned
ABC-TV Debates Ex-gay Myth
EC Member is Guest on ABC-TV This Thursday Morning
Watch this Thursday morning’s Good Morning America (on ABC-TV, check your local listings or the Good Morning America website). Dr. Randy Baxter has been invited to appear on the program to talk about the real side of ex-gay ministries and debunk the ex-gay myth. Randy, a longtime member of the pro-gay ministry Evangelicals Concerned, has personal experiences with ex-gay ministries to share. These experiences are similar to the Tennessee teenager who recently put out a plea for help on the Internet.
In June, Zach, a sixteen year old, was placed by his parents in Refuge, a Tennessee homosexual conversation therapy program sponsored by the ministry Love in Action. While in the program, he was able to post a plea for help on the Internet blog myspace.com. (See story on ABCNEWS.com).
On May 29, the teen wrote that his parents sat him down and told him he was going to a “fundamentalist Christian program for gays.”
“They tell me that there is something psychologically wrong with me, and they ‘raised me wrong.’ I’m a big screw up to them, who isn’t on the path God wants me to be on. So I’m sitting here in tears, [joining] the rest of those kids who complain about their parents on blogs – and I can’t help it,” Zach wrote.
“I have this horrible feeling all of the time… I wish this on no person… I ran away for a short while. I came back and they took everything from me, they don’t want me to have outside influences– I don’t know how long I’m going to be on [the computer], because if they wake up… The program starts June 6. I’m just here to let everyone know I am still alive. I’m sure you’ve left messages on my cell phone, they took that and my keys… and the computer.. and I’ve been homebound. =sigh= I just need this to be over.”
– Additional excerpts from myspace.comZach’s blog sparked controversy, protests and an investigation by the Tennessee Department of Children’s Services. Although the investigation preliminarily concluded no physical child abuse was occurring, Zach has not been heard from since June 3, according to ABC News.
Randy has reconciled his faith and sexual orientation through Evangelicals Concerned, a safe and positive alternative seeking to help GLBT people embrace both their Christianity and sexuality.
Evangelicals Concerned creates safe places in North America for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Christians to reconcile their faith and sexuality and to grow toward Christian maturity. Visit EC on the Web at www.ecwr.org.
Evangelicals Concerned Western Region (ECWR) is a nationwide ministry, which encourages and affirms lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Christians in their faith. We organize small groups, bible studies, social activities and other events in many North American cities, and we organize national and regional conferences every year.
For general media inquiries, call Barry Dixon, EC Media Coordinator, at (626) 440-0482.
I believe the press release is in error when it says that Stark issues a plea for help from within LIA. Stark last logged in to his blog on June 5, before “boot camp” commenced.
EC really is a God-send for many who are gay Christians with an evangelical or fundamentalist background.
In reviewing their board of directors (www.ecwr.org), I noticed this quote by a board member:
“Life-crippling rejection can be miraculously healed and triumphed over by God’s love”
I couln’t help but notice the similarity to the “change is possible through Jesus” message that Exodus and the others push.
However, in the case of Exodus they believe God wants to change what you are while EC believes God wants to heal your pain. It doesn’t take a major theological breakthrough to see which is consistent with the message of Christ.
Oh, I know that DL or PeterO or someone would say that what hurts you is being gay (or “sexually broken”) and the pain was caused by abuse or some such.
However, I would have to defer to God on that issue. There seems to be a lot of ex-ex-gays, which suggests to me that maybe God didn’t really want to change them. On the other hand, EC doesn’t seem to have much of a failure rate. Those healed of the pain inflicted on them by a hostile church tend to stay healed. It looks like God prefers healing hurts to changing orientations.
Timothy said:
Indeed — and one of IMO the major problems to begin with. So long as people regard their religious faith (of any stripe) as sufficient “reason” to behave towards others as they do; any debate about what makes a civil society rapidly vanishes up it’s own fundament. I’m trying to think of an occassion when conservative religiousity has inspired rather than opposed each movement forward — anyone?Faith traditions serve something, obviously, but they’ve proved themselves dreadful at establishing whether the World is flat or round, whether the Earth is 6 billion or 6000 years old, or whether homosexuality is an utterly normal part of the human experience or an abomination to the Lord God and the Baby Jesus.
grantdale–
As a gay Christian, I’m a bit confused as to what you’re trying to say. What is the “problem” with the “change is possible through Jesus” viewpoint, considering it is being stated by Christians? I mean… what else would you expect a devout Christian to believe? 🙂
So, are you saying that any and all faith traditions have nothing to do with building a civil society, or that they are by definition uncivil? Perhaps your definition of “civil” would help me better understand where you’re coming from.
Grantdale says: So long as people regard their religious faith (of any stripe) as sufficient “reason” to behave towards others as they do; any debate about what makes a civil society rapidly vanishes up it’s own fundament. I’m trying to think of an occassion when conservative religiousity has inspired rather than opposed each movement forward — anyone?
There are none of the type you seek. All conservative Christianity has ever done is opposse and obstruct positive improvments in the human condition. There are no examples of anything else, IMHO.
Hi ChristopherNo, that’s not even what I said, and I’m not suggesting it either.I specifically said faith traditons serve a purpose (many and varied, for many and varied people). Religion is not an unknown for us, one of us was even raised Baptist. Fortunately we’ve also travelled a great deal since them, and mixed with many cultures.I used the word faith deliberately. Faith needs no proof. It needs no one else to think it. It is a mystery.But some would take that faith and turn it to real World issues that CAN be seen, measured, understood, debated and solved. When faith and reality do align, things seem to run smoothly enough. When they don’t, all hell (sic) can break free. Please don’t tell me faith is just another reality either :-)A civil society?I’ll put it simply: this is what we tell kids…
And “my problem” with a “Jesus can change you” opinion is because that is all it is; an opinion. Taken on faith. And you’re welcome to yours. Frankly, I cannot even recall that being what Jesus is reported to have set out to do — “I’ll change you”??? I thought it was about the “whosover believe etc will have eternal life” message.But I never met the man, so I cannot be sure, and I’m also not getting into explaining my religious beliefs in this forum. We could be here for ever, and still not get agreement.
RE: grantdale
The most affective way I found is explaining to parents like this; god has given you a gift of a great son/daughter, by you asking him to ‘change’ his sexuality, you’re basically throwing the gift god gave you, back at him, and saying, “I don’t like that gift, I want something different! something better!”
Many walk away realising that they should be greatful for the son or daughter they have.
What parents need is a wake up call, a reminder that their child is unique and special, he or she is born the way they are.
Hi, Grantdale–
Thanks for your clarification. However, I don’t know why you’d have a problem with a Christian making a case for personal change through Jesus Christ, since that’s what the faith teaches. And yes, Jesus talked about that a lot–not just the salvation part. I mean, if you don’t believe it–which is fine by me, I’m not going to try to convert you–then why care? I mean, I can get accosted by Hare Krishnas in the airport telling me that “Krishna is the way to personal enlightenment,” but it doesn’t bother me. I just smile and nod and move on. I don’t believe it, so what does it matter? They can promote their faith any way they want–it’s a free country. Why would a particular statement of faith be a “problem” for me if I don’t believe in it anyway? I dunno–your concern seems a bit misplaced.
Oh, and Dalea, although I have serious political and theological differences with the conservative side of Christianity–I mean, I’m gay, right?–I’m not foolish enough to make such a patently absurd blanket statement about all conservative Christians. They “oppose and obstruct positive improvements in the human condition” without exception? Oh, please. Ever heard of hospitals? You can thank conservative Christians for those. What about the majority of charity organizations that work in third world countries to provide food, shelter, clean water, medical care, education and emergency aid to those who suffer? Yep, them conservative Christians–and even those evil Catholics! In fact, you might be interested to know that the first charity organization on the ground after the tsunami disaster was WorldVision. And going back in history, the famous evangelical revivalist preacher Charles Finney–about as conservative as they came–was an outspoken proponent of women’s suffrage and the abolition of slavery.
Yes, many of today’s conservative Christians focus way too much attention on the gay issue and say a lot of stupid and damaging things in regard to it, but let’s not get carried away here. Painting all conservative Christians as dangerous and evil is no different than those on the other side who paint all gays as dangerous and evil. It certainly makes the accuser feel morally superior, but it doesn’t benefit anyone. Because it isn’t true.
Christopher, please note I wrote “my problem”.I put the quote marks on because I don’t think I have a problem. People of faith tell me I do.I explained “my problem” — that I won’t take something as true just because your faith says it is — and I really don’t know why you keep banging on at me about this. This only illustrates my point, I’d suggest.I know we live in different countries with different expectations about this, but we do consider it rude to pester people about their beliefs beyond establishing what they are. Yes, sure, you are free to be rude; I wouldn’t suggest otherwise. Nevertheless, after all this you still don’t know what I actually believe. Kind of suggests we’ve really discussed nothing, doesn’t it?Look… even the Hare Krishnas don’t keep following me about the airport, and into the bathroom, and onto the plane, and into the cab and arrive at my doorstep. OK?(And, BTW, religious recruiters (and other assorted pests) are banned from Australian airports.)
Sorry, back again. Work really is a nuisance.Christopher, really. Those are wild and inaccurate claims, unsupported I might add.Ever heard of hospitals? You can thank conservative Christians for those.Huh???
That’s how the Hippocratic Oath starts off. Sounds rather pagan to me. As for hospitals — they existed long before Christians, conservative or otherwise.What about the majority of charity organizations that work in third world countries to provide food, shelter, clean water, medical care, education and emergency aid to those who suffer? … In fact, you might be interested to know that the first charity organization on the ground after the tsunami disaster was WorldVision.Double huh???(Are you even aware that the word “charity” also has a pagan greek root? They were a bunch of crazy chicks, or sisters, I can’t remember which.)The vast bulk of “charity” in developing countries is done by inter-government organisations. The World Health Organisation. It’s run by the United Nations. Then we go onto UNICEF, the UNHCR, UNDP… USAID etc etcThe first aid delivered after the Boxing Day tsunami — an “act of God”, need I remind you — was given by local people. You know, like doctors, nurses, fire services, shop keepers, fellow tourists. Following that, the military arrived — local and foreign, including the US. The government contributions have dwarfed“>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donations_for_victims_of_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake“>dwarfed the “charities”. The Australian taxpayer has pledged over US$1 billion. The Australian people tens of millions more.Please do come back with the figure that World Vision has actually handed-over (and here’s a clue: good luck finding that figure…)World Vision itself receives only about a third of its income as donations of the kind you are referring to. The rest is goods given in kind, and government funds. From time to time I need to analyse the community sector for work, and here’s WV annual report. Please see the tables and Note L.Interestingly, you may want to find what WVs first press release was… Oh, looks like they’re really just a business and rely on PR for income. And yes, they DO pester those funny native peoples to become Christian.That ain’t charity. That’s vicariously living out your own religious aspirations. There are many other religious organisations given in the Wikipedia entry, any of which I’d support before World Vision. I don’t know if your local church promotes their activities, so you may not be familiar with them.I can thank conservatives Christians for hospitals???? This conversation has now become officially silly.
P.S. agree completely with the last paragraph.You may faint now 🙂
grantdale, et al
you are right in that “this conversation has now become officially silly”. But though I often agree with you, this time I think you are the one making it silly.
You are using a straw man argument.
Christopher did not claim that conservative Christians invented medicine. He did not claim that every hospital ever established was by Christians nor that every good work in charity is by Christians.
So to argue that point is, as you say, silly.
What he was trying to provide was an answer to your question: “I’m trying to think of an occassion when conservative religiousity has inspired rather than opposed each movement forward — anyone?”
And he did. Successfully. You may argue about the minutia of whether EVERY hospital in EVERY situation or EVERY charitable act was inspired by Christian theology. Obviously not. Yet it remains true that conservative religiousity inspired rather than opposed charitable care for less fortunate.
AND back to my main point. Before this turned into a diatribe against all things Christian, I had a point. And it was this:
There is a contrast between the message of two conservative Christian organizations, Exodus and Evangelicals Concerned, and it is a contrast made more evident in the similarity between two statements.
Ok, but i’m reading Christopher’s words.(And before I go on — I will point out again that neither of you know if I am in fact a Christian. I’d like to clearly recognised, thanks.)But, if we wish to go down that path — I can place it back again. I asked about when conservative religiosity has inspired a movement forward. I’m thinking “movement” and “forward”. Dalea made a blanket statement, I hadn’t even mentioned Christianity specifically.What I got back was a strawman claim that I have conservative Christianity to thank for hospitals, a claim that’s not even remotely plausible. Ditto acts of charity.Do you mean to say that but for conservative Christians there would be no hospitals and no charitable acts? That’s my point, a point that I regret even bothering to make. They would exist regardless. So why take credit?Getting back to my original point, me too :-), I made a comment about relying on unknowable, unproveable, often irrational religious notions by both pro and anti gay groups. If we do that, all we are left with is who has the most voters (or, the most aggressive mob). I have an odd notion that we can rise above that, even when our faith is important to ourselves.Christopher took this to be an attack on Christianity, something that many seen all to prone to do these days. We don’t all think “you’re with us, or this means you’re against us”. I understand God can look after himself. But, I should have heeded my own best judgement and refused to continue. And I didn’t. SLAP SELF.
I think the entire fallacy of this thread rests with an easy-to-make assumption that all Christianity (even Conservative Christianity) is equivalent to the ignorant and harmful practices of some conservative Christians — even though those members and leaders are predominant.
Timothy started this thread with a very insightful observation of how one tenet of evangelical Christianity can lead to two completely opposite conclusions. (I might also add that this tenet is not held so strongly by many other branches of Christianity).
But it seems that the thread rushed right past his keen observation and degenerated into expressions of anger, frustration, and belittlement of the faith of many people, including (indirectly and unintentionally, I believe) some gay folks here in this forum, who also share this sense of anger and frustration.
I understand the anger and frustration. I really do. My partner and I “discuss” this quite often. It’s a hard one to pull off civilly. We’re not very good at it.
But I find that it is very important to acknowledge and applaud instances in which those who identify with conservative Christianity are able to reconcile their faith into the fabric of their gay beings, by drawing strength from their faith in a manner that does not require having a diluted “faith-lite”.
That, it seems to me, is quite an accomplishment.
Christians aren’t going away. They predominate in this culture. What must go away somehow is the divisiveness in our culture that threatens each of us as gay men and women (and straight allies as well). Yes, many — most — conservative Christians are behaving badly. But as my wise great-grandmother pointed out, two wrongs don’t make a right.
I know this is hard to swallow by a few of the regular readers here, but many Christians deep down have hearts of pure gold. If I didn’t believe this I would give up and move to Canada or the UK. Kaiwai offered one excellent way to reach them, a way that is consistent with Christian theology and respectful to their faith. There are other ways as well. We really need to be smarter.