In his State of the Union address, President Bush popularized a misunderstanding of the Federal Marriage Amendment. He said, more or less, that he supported a constitutional amendment banning marriages for gays, but he did not wish to ban civil unions.
The White House press office and the press corps marketed Bush’s position as an endorsement of the one well-known measure now in Congress, the Federal Marriage Amendment — which explicitly prohibits state laws from being construed as requiring civil unions or other “incidents” of marriage such as property, inheritance, visitation and custody rights.
The web site for Canada’s Christian Heritage Party (a minor party consisting of that nation’s “political religious right”) reported Jan. 23 that U.S. ex-gay activist Stephen Bennett is outraged at Bush.
“…The President seems to be OK with states individually legislating on homosexual civil unions,” notes former homosexual Stephen Bennett. “And that’s a problem for many in the pro-family movement.” …
“Many feel, ‘What’s the sense of this effort if homosexuals will ultimately be granted the same legal rights as heterosexual married couples, minus the word “marriage”? Actually, many wonder, ‘What’s wrong with homosexual couples in committed, same-sex relationships having the same legal rights as heterosexual married couples?’,” Bennett said.
Bennett, executive director of SBM, a pro-family advocacy group in Connecticut and a former homosexual, says, “The issue here is not about protecting marriage — it’s about homosexuality.”
XGW appreciates Bennett’s candor in stating that the goal of the profamily movement should not be to preserve marriage, but to punish homosexual people unless they seek “complete change” to heterosexuality.
Bennett proceeds to generalize that same-sex attraction is always “dysfunctional,” and that homosexual people are uniformly “abnormal, unnatural, unhealthy, mentally and emotionally destructive” and prone to die from AIDS.
Therefore, based on these stereotypes, Bennett argues,
“Granting homosexuals the right to marry or adopt children is deliberately creating dysfunctional families. This only enables them to remain trapped in a falsehood — a deception and a counterfeit of the real. It’s about time we put down the politics and the spin, and address the real issue at hand.
And he resorts to fear, paranoia, and victim politics:
“We’ve all been deceived. The nation is the real victim here. It’s about time someone… told the truth.”
There is, briefly, a sign that Bennett would like to help those specific individuals, regardless of orientation, who struggle with sexual addiction, substance abuse, or depression:
Stephen Bennett says addressing destructive behavior does not equate to bigotry or hatred. He says, “I have family members who are alcoholic. Do I ‘hate’ them because they are alcoholic? Absolutely not. I love them more than anything, and would lay down my life for each one of them. They know I don’t approve of their behavior, yet they know more than anything that I truly love them.
Unfortunately, instead of treating the addictions, compulsions, abuses, or depression, Bennett makes a wrong turn. He treats an individual’s root sexuality as a sickness and insists that the sexuality be treated. How, he does not say. Medical treatments for same-sex-attraction do not exist.
What is Bennett’s prescription for a cure? Prayer? Or stereotypes and discrimination?
The thing that I find most offensive about Stephen Bennett (among a number of things) is his insistence on creating a legal environment where people will be forced to live in a way that he freely chose for himself. No one meddled in his life to compel him to become “ex-gay,” so why the need to meddle in other people’s lives? Just be a “happy ex-gay person,” share your life story if you feel so inclined, and be done with it. Geez.
Bennett’s thinking is also based on a fundamentally wrong assumption, that any legal recognition of same-sex relationships, from domestic partnership benefits to civil unions to gay marriage somehow will “legitimize” same-sex relationships. However, in most people’s minds, same-sex relationships are *already* legitimate, insofar as people know they already exist. (I think most people’s moral issue regarding same-sex relationships extends simply to not wanting to hear about it.) Legal recognition of same-sex couples isn’t going to somehow “create” more same-sex couples or “encourage” more people to “become gay” in order to get those types of legal benefits. The push for legal recognition is only a natural outgrowth of what already exists.
Bennett and others have this illogical assumption that if society takes away all legal recognition of same-sex relationships, those relationships will somehow just go away. Kind of like Prohibition. And we all know how that one worked out.
I recently heard Stephen Bennett speak to a group of Baptists. It was a sad and telling experience. Bennett VERY carefully explained that SBA is NOT a political organization and that he is merely an evangelist to homosexuals. Only the most stupid people would not not be able to see through that after checking his website or listening to his radio spots. The misinformation shared with these poor people was staggering – all intended to reinforce that being gay is a choice and that “Complete Change is Completely Possible!” The low point for me was when Bennett asked people to raise their hands if they had ever seen an episode of “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.” I did so – along with only a few others – and was subjected to derision for participating in such a vile form of entertainment. Ugghhh!!!! Nothing about Bennett’s presentation – from his stereotypical rantings about “The Lifestyle” to his mediochre singing and his aging back-up singers – would appeal to those he professes to want to “reach”.
Stephen Bennett said:
“Homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural, unhealthy, mentally and emotionally destructive — and in many cases deadly. I know: I’ve buried countless friends who’ve died from AIDS.”
You said:
“Bennett proceeds to generalize that same-sex attraction is always “dysfunctional,” and that homosexual people are uniformly “abnormal, unnatural, unhealthy, mentally and emotionally destructive” and prone to die from AIDS”
How about we add liar to the list? You changed “homosexuality” to “homosexual people”. Stop lying and twisting people’s words.
Oh… I forgot this is Exgaywatch.
According to D.L. Foster’s logic, homosexual people (plural noun) are not really homosexual (adjective).
Allow me to explain.
Bennett defines homosexuality in precisely the severe manner that I quoted. The word “homosexuality” is a noun that defines the associated adjective. Homosexuality is a condition experienced by anyone who is a homosexual person.
When one misdescribes homosexuality, one is — by logical necessity — misdescribing homosexual persons. If the conditions Bennett describes do not describe homosexual persons, then he has misdescribed homosexuality to begin with.
If D.L. Foster or Stephen Bennett cannot live with the logical ramifications of what they say, then they can choose to refrain from broad overgeneralizations about homosexuality. They can choose instead to define the word with accuracy and precision:
Homosexuality is a predominant sexual attraction to the same gender. End of definition.
By not overreaching in their definitions, Foster and Bennett would avoid overgeneralizing and stereotyping gay individuals.
For the time being, unfortunately, both Foster and Bennett overgeneralize and stereotype about homosexuality — and therefore homosexual persons.
I stand by my statement.
I am still waiting for somebody with a first hand history of Steven Bennett.
SB talks regularly about his past and the “100 men” he apparently had sex with yet not a single person has ever come forward to say “yeah, I knew him”.
John Paulk for what he’s worth had several detractors in the gay community that actually knew him when he was out (and doing drag).
Anyone in the gay community knows that its pretty easy to find somebody who knows somebody and yet Stephen Bennett is a complete blank.
I also have read alot of his rhetoric about losing people to AIDS and the “homosexual lifestyle” and it just doesn’t strike me as completely honest.
I don’t care if you’re an “ex-gay” and completely out of the gay world, nobody goes through the pain of losing a friend to AIDS and then goes on years later to speak so clinically and harshly. Especially a “Christian”.
My personal gut feeling is that Stephen Bennett is one of two things.
1. Somebody who was confused at a young age who never experienced anything in the gay community (but identified as gay).
2. A complete fraud put together by Tim Wildmon and Sandy Rios personally. Knowing the dangers of having a spokesmodel like John Paulk of Michael Johnston, its conceivable that these “leaders” picked a straight guy (who could never slip) to be their “ex-gay”.
There is something about Bennett that really rubs me the wrong way and I can’t put my finger on it.
DL Foster on the other hand is just a scary, angry man who needs to work out his personal demons before he even begins to speak for God.
I’ve jousted with him on other blogs and he is definately one person who I’d never want to meet. His posts were mean spirited and quite honestly scary. I’d never want to come into contact with such a potentially violent individual. (in my opinion of course).
Scott,
Hardly a joust. You ran away crying. Whats REALLY scary is that your feigned fear of the truth spoken without compromise. And you are right to never want to meet me cause thats exactly what you will get. In my opinion of course.
Scott,
Hardly a joust. You ran away crying. Whats REALLY scary is that your feigned fear of the truth spoken without compromise. And you are right to never want to meet me cause thats exactly what you will get. In my opinion of course.
If by “ran away crying” you mean that Randy Thomas shut down all comments on his website and deleted everything, then yes, somebody ran away crying.
Actually they took their ball and went home.
Luckily, anyone who watched our conversation on that particular blog can judge for themselves.
I thought bearing false witness was a big no no in your narrow little world.
Heck, that one made the top ten.
Whoops, my bad, not Randy Thomas. Alan Chambers shut his blog down when the questions got too hot for him.
So, DL, how much bling bling are you shaking down off of the poor desperate sinners you preach at?
Does Concerned Women of America pay you a lot of cash to write commentaries for their website?
And since you’re in with CWFA, how exactly does Robert Knight qualify as a “Concerned Woman”???
These guys play with words. The ones I’ve spoken with do not believe homosexuals exist; only “persons with homosexual attractions.” It’s a linguistic sleight that they somehow think makes a difference in trying to bring people out of the “lifestyle.” Not defining yourself in terms of “behavior.”
Well I’m more curious to find out if Stephen Bennett actually existed as a gay person in the late 80’s to the early 90’s.
He tells very grand stories about his past but nobody seems to be able to back him up.
POTPOURRI—-
Is that all you think about is money? I dont.
Re: concerned women, the article is a reprint originally appearing on my site. Just like any other site, they have to ask for permission to reprint which I granted. Again, who said anything about money? Seems like you have a Judas spirit.
Re: Stephen Bennett..
Wow, finally a real live investigative sleuth to dig out exgay history. What an honor! You are poised to outdo even that BeSeen guy. I’m sure Stephen cant wait for you to give him some publicity.
Re Alan Chambers. Read Alan’s response. The man said that he shut down the comments because he had a FULL TIME JOB. I personally am glad he shut it down, too many of you hatemongers were camping out trying to refute every single syllable he wrote. I guess you have no lives of your own.
And finally dont change the subject. You claimed you were sooooooo “scared” of me. Said it twice. Wow, you give me way too much credit. But thanks anyway. Scott, Why are you so afraid of facing the truth? Stop being a crybaby and try a little honesty.
Re: poor desparate sinners. None of you here at exgaywatch has given me a dime. What a shame after all the good advice I give out.
@ Mike A: For once please stop lying and changing words to force feed your ideology. Exgaywatch is worse that Godhatesfags.com.
Why are you so afraid of facing the truth? Stop being a crybaby and try a little honesty.
Yes, I am afraid of you DL, I think you’re angry and don’t like to be challenged.
Alan and Randy at least know how to conduct themselves in a debate, you on the other hand namecall.
Regarding money, YES, I do think your whole “ex-gay” schtick is about money. I think CWFA and many ex-gay ministries may be non-profit but their workers aren’t. The more money you guys can bring in by capitolizing on the pain of scared parents and confused people, the more you can pay your staff.
Randy and Alan make fairly good cash going out on speaking tours and by having their writings published on anti-gay websites. I’m guessing you do the same.
You can shout “truth truth truth, crybaby” all you want but you’re not going to change my mind. You can run and hide behind the sad, tired little “decieved by Satan” act if it gets you through the night but I’m not going to shut up about the fraud that many (not all) “ex-gay” groups perpetuate.
And I’d think twice before telling Mike A. to stop “force feeding” his ideology. I don’t see him on your website or in congressional hearings trying to complicate the lives of gay taxpayers.
As far as Stephen Bennett goes, he can either put up or shut up. Wayne Besen might well go exploring into his stories and YOU may not like what is found.
Just ask John Paulk and Michael Johnston how effective Wayne Besen’s research is.
And if I were you, I’d make sure you keep your nose clean. You’re setting yourself up for a heck of a fall if you screw up like John and Mike did and I for one would be more than happy to shout your fall from grace from the rooftops.
You’ve been so “Christian” to all of us so I’m thinking an eye for an eye would be poetic.
Debate? When? Where? Who? Youre funny. no pun intended.
Stop acting so nice to Alan expecially after you and that pack of wolves insulted his wife. That was low and gutless. But Mike A FORGOT to post that…
Youre quite welcome to come to Atlanta, GA and do some spying. Try Airtran. Perhaps you can get Georgia Equality to pay for your trip.
Too bad Micheal Johnson and John Paulk made mistakes. I would wager it was because they were human. You should try being human.
What you really are afraid of is the truth. You run in morbid fear that it will catch you and you will do like we did…give our lives to Jesus. Stop running and bow down. You know you want to.
And go to sleep! You stay up all night seeing if I will say something to you. Well here it is: GO TO BED and stop being a blog groupie.
Bennett’s got a good gig going separating fools from their money.
The idea that he’s an evangelical to homosexuals is preposterous in the extreme. I would be surprised if there are many homosexuals who have ever heard of him. If he’s an evangelical to anything, it’s to the wacko right-wing rhetorical gay-bashers–such as those at WorldNutDaily who (at least used to) link to his site.
DL, you’re plainly nuts.
If you can show where I insulted Alan’s wife, I’d love to see it (again with the bearing false witness).
Michael Johnston didn’t only make a human mistake, he knowingly had unsafe sex with other men and didn’t disclose the minor detail that he was HIV+.
Granted, his sexual partners had a responsibility to protect themselves but Michael “ex-gay ads” Johnston KNOWINGLY put another human being at risk. All the same time, he was speaking at rallys for Jerry Falwell (FOR A FEE).
So tell us DL, how much does it pay to be an “ex-gay” spokesmodel?
Oh, don’t worry about my sleep habits, I didn’t lose any sleep over you.
DL,
Apart from put-downs, your efforts to evict gay Christians from Christianity, and your strawman arguments about who said what at Alan Chambers’ blog, you have not really addressed the topic of this discussion:
Did Bennett define homosexuality as I described? And does the word homosexuality — as Bennett defined it — describe the attitudes, mental state, and behaviors of homosexual persons?
I respectfully recommend you return to the topic and answer the questions.
[Ignoring the Darnell/Scott catfight] 🙂
I agree, Raj. I went undercover to see Bennett recently at an evanglical church in my area. I saw or heard no evidence that he is anything other than a frontman for Concerned Women of America. His stories contradicted themselves (e.g. his inability to bond with his horribly alcoholic father resulted in his being gay and required a momentous reconciliation years later that ‘fixed’ his orientation over a period of 2-3 months – and yet he also said that his childhood with his quirky inventor dad was a riot and “I grew up in a very fun home” (yes, I took notes.) Three times he mentioned the 100+ men plus alcohol, drugs, and bulimia – implying that these are typical of “The Lifestyle”.
Bennett’s approach to evangelism was demonstrated in an isolated act last summer (in contrast, he brings his politically motivated message to churches every week.) He brought a busload of people – many his sponsors at Concerned Women of America – to Provincetown. He returned to the scene of his youthful debauchery to distribute little bags with an audio tape and a copy of his tract titled “I WAS “Gay.” The thirty-so folks fanned out around P-town, handing out the bags to unsuspecting fags, saying “You are precious in God’s sight.” Can you imagine the IMPACT?! Hehe. If anyone doubts who the true audience of Bennett’s ‘ministry’ is, it should be clear when you see the CD he’s currently promoting on his website (for a while on the homepage.) It’s a recording of hymns by “The eighty year-old grandmother who’s taken America by storm!” Incidentally, don’t be fooled by the butched-up, stubbly, leather-clad photos on his site. In person he’s a prancing queen in a Baptist suit and tie. At least he acknowledged that he’s ‘not the most masculine person around’ and that he doesn’t understand football. Like most gay men (and I don’t doubt for a moment that he WAS and still IS), he spoke those familiar words: “I always knew I was different.” Too bad Stephen Bennett couldn’t believe that different is OK.
I was most irritated by Bennett’s blatant misinformation and his sensationalizing of the ‘gay lifestyle.’ He lifted up the ‘bug-chasing’ phenomenon, of course, and he proclaimed that 75% of gay men were molested as a child and that 80-85% of lesbian women and 95% of gay men have broken relationships with their fathers.
One last irritated comment about Bennett. He gets a lot of mileage out of displaying his pretty wife and beautiful children – PROOF that he is now straight. Just look at his press releases – they always say, in essence, “Stephen Bennett WAS gay, but now he is a happily married man with a lovely wife and two children.” Those of us who have been married know that you don’t have to be straight to marry and reproduce (hey, I even LIKED sex with my wife, but that doesn’t mean I wasn’t gay!) God help Bennett’s wife and kids if he’s ever exposed or comes out and they realize they were used as a front.
Mike A said:
Apart from put-downs, your efforts to evict gay Christians from Christianity, and your strawman arguments about who said what at Alan Chambers’ blog, you have not really addressed the topic of this discussion:
Did Bennett define homosexuality as I described? And does the word homosexuality — as Bennett defined it — describe the attitudes, mental state, and behaviors of homosexual persons?
I respectfully recommend you return to the topic and answer the questions.
DL Foster says:
Why surely. But first you have overused and overexposed the word “strawman”. You seem to have made that your one size fits all rebuttal.
But anyway…
Mr Bennett made a simple statement based on his knowledge of homosexuality. In his statement he clearly said “homosexuality is abnormal…”
Homosexuality is defined as “erotic activity with another of the same sex” Again he CLEARLY stated that the actions of homosexuals, NOT homosexuals themselves were abnormal, which they are. Normal is this case is what the human body was originally created to participate in sexually. To say that a homosexual (the person) is abnormal would be prejudgin unless you had specific knowledge that that specific individual had documented mental malfunctions. But again, Mr Bennett did not say neither allude to such a idea. He called the actions of homosexuals abnormal. And again they are based on normal standards of conduct, not subjective standards.
What you did then was to immediately CHANGE his statement and purposefully misintepret it becuase you did not agree or possibly have predisposed personal animosity towards him and perhaps all former homosexuals. WHY is still the big mystery. You claimed (falsely) that he meant “Homosexual people are abnormal…” He meant no such thing. Its pretty arrogant to assume that you immediately know what another person means when they make statements. You had to suspend normal standards of sexual conduct in order to justify your response which then cast Mr Bennett as a villiain of sorts. He didnt insult gay people as much as you would like for himt to do so. That of course would give you the ammonition you long for agaisnt him. That, in a word is evil.
You can be gay but why add evil to your character.
The evidence is not there and the illogical conclusions you make are simple falsehood.
Your turn.
Steven Bennett has warned that exgay ministries are full of sexual abuse. From a page that’s since been taken down from his site:
Money quote is in bold here. Interesting that Bennett removed this page from his website.
by Steven Bennett
https://www.sbministries.org/ministry.html
Official Position – “Ex-Gay” Groups
The need and time has arisen to address the issue of our ministry’s official position on “Ex-Gay” Groups.
There are many wonderful, godly ex-gay Christian ministries around the country whose main purpose is to help the homosexual man or woman “come out” of their unwanted homosexual lifestyle and behavior. This can be done through biblical counseling and coming to an understanding of why a person has chosen the homosexual path. In most all cases, the homosexual lifestyle and behavior is an outward expression of deeper, underlying root causes, which when dealt with biblically, can lead a person away from their sinful behavior and into a healthy, heterosexual lifestyle. Exodus International is the most well known “ex-gay” organization – an “umbrella” referral ministry, which has many Christian “ex-gay” Exodus approved
ministries listed on their website.
We encourage anyone looking to become part of an “ex-gay” group to do so with care and to obtain referrals about the group. If you choose the counseling route, especially if the counselor themselves has come out of
the homosexual lifestyle, make sure their spouse is present whenever counseling (a married couple is preferred and recommended). For everyone’s integrity involved, we believe “couple” counseling is the best.
Tragically, there have been numerous reported first hand incidents to our ministry from around the country of sexual abuse which has occurred between so called ‘Christian Counselors’ and the one being counseled during one-on-one sessions, as well as ‘Christian leaders’ of ex-gay groups. There also are many ‘counselors’ in this field who unfortunately are in it for ‘the money.’ Many people have been ‘soaked dry’ trying to deal with this issue. Please, be wise, and beware. . Obtain references – again, there are many excellent biblical counselors out there who truly have your goals and ideals in mind.
If you choose to join in a “group” setting of people looking to come out of homosexuality, do so with caution and seriously pray about this decision. Many people who are weak and struggling, all coming together in a group setting, can possibly cause each other temptation and may lead you to “fall” with another man or woman, struggling with the same issue. If you are struggling with homosexuality, it is best not to share your sexual struggles with others who are struggling, nor is it encouraged for you to listen to their struggles. Problems have arisen because of this. There may be many others in the group, who may not be as committed or devout to seeking change as you are – and if they “fall”, they may bring you down with them as well. Joining a group setting should ONLY be done with much prayer, counseling with your pastor, and with high referrals and recommendations about the group you are seeking to join. Again, there are many excellent groups out there – be sure to research your options fully.
We would encourage you to stay away from groups which claim that you can never be completed “healed” or “set free” from your homosexual thoughts, desires or actions. These groups teach what is know as the “Little h theory” – that one’s homosexuality will NEVER go away, just become a little “h” in their life, controllable, easier to deal with. God DOES offer complete change, and this IS His will, desire and purpose for your life. COMPLETE CHANGE IS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE!
In conclusion, we feel the best possible scenario recommended by our ministry for the person looking for help with ‘coming out’ of homosexuality, should be found within their local bible believing, preaching church. Biblical counseling should be done with either the Pastor and his wife, or a loving, solid husband and wife team within the church. The problem of course lies with many churches not knowing how to ‘deal’ with this issue in a biblical, loving, compassionate way. Talk with your pastor about the issue and see if he could help. If your pastor feels he is not properly equipped in this area, together seek a biblical counselor or group, that maybe he or another committed couple would be willing to join you in, to keep you accountable – and to learn about the issues themselves.
Stephen Bennett Ministries is NOT against Christian Counselors or ‘ex-gay’ groups by any means – we just encourage you to approach this area with extreme caution, prayer, wisdom, referrals, references, and accountability. Unfortunately, there are ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’? your complete change and happiness is what WE at Stephen Bennett Ministries desire to see happen in YOUR life!
He’s (Bennett) at it again. Maybe the management here at XGW will address this separately:
https://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/mar/04030810.html
Also from the referenced interview article (https://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/mar/040308a.html )Bennett says:
“No matter what kind of picture you try to paint on this thing, we should not enable homosexuals to remain trapped in a dysfunctional, destructive and potentially deadly lifestyle. We should really try to reach out to these people and help them come out of this. So do not give them anything: do not give them gay marriage, same-sex civil unions, gay adoption, any of these things, because these things are enabling them to remain trapped in this lifestyle.”
Note his misuse of the 12-step imagery “enable;”
and, elsewhere he goes on to say:
“I would really love to see this president [Bush]take a stand against and address the issue of homosexuality. We know it’s not going to happen. But I would really love to see him doing that.”
He goes on to draw a parallel between the book After the Ball and an Osama BinLaden video tape of 9-11. REALLY over-the-top!
Ironically, Sharon, I got pulled into an email exchange with Stephen Bennett last week when he mistakenly assumed I was Rick, the poster on this thread who was in attendance at one of Bennett’s church appearances. Besides the “neener neener” tone of the first email and the very judgmental tone of the second (after I explained that I am a Christian who doesn’t fall in any of the false categories he promotes about gay people), I asked him a simple question:
“What gives you the right to seek to not only deny, but strip, rights from gays and lesbians as a way to make them live the way you’d prefer, when you yourself were never forced to become “ex-gay,” but made that choice of your own volition?”
I have yet to hear an answer.
>I have yet to hear an answer.
Well, obviously he’s holier than thou.
/sarcasm
GREAT question, Christopher. They HAVE no answer to that, other than the Torquemada-esque notion that they know better than you (or God) what is necessary for your “salvation.”
Hey Christopher –
Sorry to be the cause of such unpleasantness – hehe. I got the same stuff from SB and was involved in some interchanges that ended after I pressed hard for specific sources of what I believe was unfounded information shared at the meeting I attended. I didn’t want to say much about that here, but if I DO receive info substantiating that 75% of gay men were molested as children, I will be glad to share that with all of you 🙂
1 in 6 boys are sexually molested by other men before the age of 16.
“…paper by David Lisak, Ph.D. This paper contains many powerful quotations from interviews with male survivors of sexual abuse. Lisak groups the quotations into themes, and discusses them with remarkable insight and compassion. The themes are:
Anger
Fear
Homosexuality Issues
Helplessness
Isolation and Alienation
Legitimacy
Loss
Masculinity Issues
Negative Childhood Peer Relations
Negative Schemas about People
Negative Schemas about the Self
Problems with Sexuality
Self Blame/Guilt
Shame/Humiliation
Some of the long-term effects of sexual abuse are related to the development of gender identity. A number of clinicians’ case studies indicate that male survivors of childhood sexual abuse may experience:
Attempts to “prove” their masculinity by having multiple female sexual partners, sexually victimizing others, and/or engaging in dangerous or violent behaviors
Bruckner & Johnson, 1987; Lew 1988.
Confusion over their gender and sexual identities
Nasjleti, 1980; Bruckner & Johnson, 1987; Johnson & Shrier, 1987; Dimock, 1988; Lew, 1988; Myers, 1989; Gilgun & Reiser, 1990.
Sense of being inadequate as men
Dimock, 1988; Lew, 1988; Myers, 1989; Pierce & Pierce, 1985.
Sense of lost power, control, and confidence in their manhood
Myers, 1989.
Finally, some clinicians have noted that sexually abused males often experience confusion and distress about their sexuality:
Confusion about their own sexual orientation
Nasjleti, 1980; Dimock, 1988; Lew, 1988; Myers, 1989; Gilgun & Reiser, 1990.
Fear that the sexual abuse has caused or will cause them to become homosexual
Nasjleti, 1980; Finkelhor, 1984; Dimock, 1988; Gilgun & Reiser, 1990; Lew, 1988; Myers, 1989.
Homophobia, an irrational fear or intolerance of homosexuality Gilgun & Reiser, 1990; Lew, 1988; Myers, 1989.
https://www.narth.com/docs/domestic.html
Your point infomanic? I personally was not molested and yet I am gay. Not to mention the other activity mentioned “having multiple female sexual partners” does not sound like something a person who is mostly attracted to men would do. If narth were honest they would admit that they do not know what causes homosexuality but genetics may be involved. However if they were to admit that then people would question there so called “treatments” and so you will never see them admit to that.
NARTH? Give me a break.
Right. I’m not sure what the point of infomaniac’s statistics is, either. I doubt anyone here would deny the devastating and long-ranging consequences of sexual abuse of any kind.
I have asked Stephen Bennett to provide documentation substantiating the information he shared publicly that 75% of gay men were sexually abused in their childhood or youth. His initial response was that it was based on many phone calls received at the SB Ministry office (and of course that does not constitute credible research and is reminiscent of Paul Cameron) as well as “a variety of credible and documented resources and publications.” I’m still waiting for a listing of those resources. Again, when I receive them, I’ll share them here.
The sexual abuse statistic re: gay men reinforces the belief – already present in most attending Bennett’s meetings – that homosexuality is a pathology. As I shared with him, statistics that are not substantiated through multiple, scholarly studies throws the credibility of all he says into jeopardy.
Rick, you do err. Your assumptions of what is credible is only from your gay-defensive perspective and Stephen Bennett nor anyone who chooses not to is required to live by your assumptions. I would wager that perspective wont allow you to accept anything outside of its narrow orthodoxy. Just like you would not accept the statistics of NARTH as credible, Bennett does not have to accept your objections as credible. If I were him I’d break it down like this: GET LOST!
In other words proof is in the eye of the beholder. Futhermore, providing records of counseling of such individuals is illegal unless you are the law. Even John Ashcroft could force that putrid organization Banned Barrenhood to give up their records.
Bennett’s claims that 75% of gay men have been abused are more than likely correct. The problem with proof from your perspective is that most of the so-called mental health organizations are so rabidly endoctrinated with progayitis they would NEVER offer any contradicting information which would alienate their main ***financial*** base. Guess who that is?
Having dealt first hand with men ranging in ages from 18-50, I can say without hesitation or reservation that 90% of them have freely confessed they were sexually abused. Is it your contention that NO gay men have been abused? If so what percentage do you think is accurate? And how would you prove it?
Hmmmmm…. Darryl…
Let’s see… how to respond…
Of course I believe many gay men were abused as children or youth. And I know that many heterosexual men were abused as children or youth, as well. The consequences for all of them were undoubtedly severe. The studies listed above (listed on the NARTH site) may very well be helpful and credible. None of them, of course, says that such abuse resulted in homosexuality – but in fact that the results were heterosexual aggression, self-questioning, and homophobia. But that really isn’t the point here.
I do, in fact, believe that persons who present themselves as experts should be willing to be held to a high degree of accountability – especially within the body of Christ. If truth is in fact truth — why the defensive posture about providing the documention/resources/studies that have been relied upon for information? Of COURSE records of counseling are off limits. And of course that is subjective material anyway. I have no problem whatsoever with someone saying “based on my experience in counseling homosexual men, I have found that approximately 75% of those men were abused as children.” But that’s not what we’re talking about here. The information was presented – and defended – as objective and factual.
What percentage of gay men were sexually abused? I have no idea. I know I was not. I know that Stephen Bennett was not. That’s means that 0% of the two of us were abused. How many persons are needed to have an accurate representation? I most certainly, during my 20+ years in the thick of ex-gay ministry, met men who had been abused. I also met many who had not been abused. I just don’t know… and it’s that uncertainty that makes me want to ask questions and find out. I don’t know if an accurate figure CAN be proven – and that’s my point. If something can’t be proven or empirically demonstrated, it should not be stated as fact.
I was involved in ex-gay ministries and reparative therapies for 18 years before I began to even ask questions about what I saw happening – or not happening – there. The backlash of condemnation when I simply asked questions – wanting to know TRUTH – and truly wanting the ex-gay message to be authentic – was mind-boggling. If something is TRUE, why can’t it be subject to examination without the hostility and defensiveness that I commonly see from ex-gay leaders?
If I believed all this didn’t matter, I would simply leave my 20+ years behind and move on. The truth is that I see the damage that was done in my own life – and in the lives of people I love – through the message that being gay is unacceptable. I don’t want to see people suffer in that way. So I ask questions and hope for answers. And if I discover new truth (such as a demonstrable link between childhood sexual abused and the development of homosexuality) I will gladly incorporate that truth into my understanding of homosexuality.
Very Sincerely,
Rick
Perhaps, Mr. Foster, our concerns about accepting Mr. Bennet’s contentions is that there is no back-up for such statements in any objective scientific research. You, apparently, dismiss all such research because of supposed “progayitis” (you do get props for coining a most interesting term, though).
Of course, by rejecting such scientific inquiries, you impugn not just the ethics of the researchers involved, but also the editors and readers of the journals that print their work, the academic institutions that continue supporting such work, and the other researchers who use that work as a basis of their efforts. In short, Mr. Foster, you reject the entire scientific method, whereby work is subject to peer review and strict scrutiny. It is well-known that the “research” performed by “pro-family” or “ex-gay” groups or supporters does not stand up to the scrutiny of the scientific method. Forgive me for choosing to believe in the scientists and not your side.
Rick said: “I have asked Stephen Bennett to provide documentation substantiating the information he shared publicly that 75% of gay men were sexually abused in their childhood or youth. His initial response was that it was based on many phone calls received at the SB Ministry office…”
I can believe him, based on that.
I don’t believe that 75% of gay men were sexually abused (come on, that’s ridiculous; out of all the gay people I’ve known, I’m the only one I know of that’s been sexually abused). I do believe it could be possible that 75% of the phone calls received were by gay men who had been sexually abused.
Why? Because sexual abuse (or all abuse) causes a lot of shame and doubt. Just a whole bunch of ISSUES. Though I’ve never gone as far as to seek “help” with the ex-gay community, I have had many moments in my life where I wondered if the abuse “made” me gay. I think it’s very possible that the gay men who were abused as children are more likely to seek conversion therapy than the mentally stable gay men. Therefore, Stephen might not *technically* be lying — but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s using a very small percentage of the population to base his statistics off of.
A few years ago, when the Advocate had a message board, I posted a question on the board asking how many of the male posters who were posting there had been molested as children. Out of some 20 male posters, one indicated that he had been molested, and the others indicated that they had not been. The message board was anonymous.
I would tend to believe that kind of statistic over Bennett’s. But I wouldn’t believe much of anything that Bennett had to say.
I think James makes a valid point (and I was sorry to hear about your personal tragedy, James.) People who have been abused or subjected to various forms of severe dysfunction probably ARE more likely to seek out conversion therapies or change ministries. Similarly, I have heard countless religious professionals (pastors, counselors) say, in essence, “I’ve never met a homosexual man who had a healthy relationship with his father” – thus reinforcing the Moberly/Nicolosi theories about the development of homosexuality. But as James points out, the healthy, well-adjusted, self-acceping gay men aren’t seeking out their counsel.
Hello, I am Gay and I have been in My Relationship for 8 years now..I mostly find these forums to just read a little but never post anything..until now..WOW I never would of thought that simple,honest,and normal people like my partner and myself could be such a hotbed of controversy? (and I thought we were boring) I was molested when I was 11 years old and my partner was not but the molestation did not “cause” me to be gay. I know this for a fact because I can remember as a little boy(before the molestation) that I was not interested in girls at all,only as friends,and never felt wrong or ashamed of it. I knew I was “different” but never did I feel that I was a “freak” or “weirdo” or ever inferior to my heterosexual classmates…strange ,but, I did grow up around a lot of loving ,caring,honest,DECENT people who never made my sexuality an issue(as I never made theirs an issue). I gew up in a Walgreens commercial a place called ‘PERFECT’.. I mostly have been sorrounded by a loving circle of friends and family and came from a unbroken home my mother was a virgin when she married my father and I am the third of three children My oldest brother is heterosexual and a faithful Christian, married to a WONDERFUL WOMAN I envy her outlook on life and she is the BEST always has a great big smile on her face and is so full of life,love,compassion and charm,and planning to have kids (yeah I am going to be an uncle!) the Fact that I am Gay has never been an issue with any of My family and probably never will.We stick together as a FAMILY because that is what Families are supposed to do..Why do so many organizations with “Family” in their title do and preach such “UN-family” ideals it seems to me that they are trying to break those precious irreplaceable ties that keep us feeling safe and secure? I have read where so-called-christian families disown family members and wonder why they use sex,drugs to quell the very pain they have caused and say “see we told you so” “Its an immoral lifestyle”.Well, if I had a daughter and I called her a whore daily and berated her and threw her out of the family it would be of no surprise that her chances of becoming a prostitute on drugs with self esteem issues would be the overall outcome and then say “see I told You you were a whore”.It leaves me no other view than an honest one so let us all contemplate the “you are going to hell issue”? I know that the REAL SIN of sodom and Gommorah was not homosexuality but rather “inhospitality” so as I have shown here ask “who’d you say was going to hell again”? Because once You answer that You have just put Yourself ABOVE GOD as JUDGE! which I am shure is not really where a TRUE CHRISTIAN would ever place him/herself but so many of these politically charged “so-called-family” organizations are putting themselves. They also keep confusing this idea ofthe founding of America with christianity.America was founded by people trying to get away from it! Ever heard of Amerigo Vespucci? He was who AMERICA was named after.Christopher columbus was looking for gold and riches NOT the garden of eden…Ponce deleon..The fountain of youth as well as Gold and riches and most of the colonists were not christians either and the constitution was written to honor “nature’s God” which means whatever one may beleive to be as God or perceives as such we the people was a statement for the ideaocracy of mankind NOT THEOcracy of mankind! Most Men who have been the President of this Great country have known this all along and I Beleive Abraham Lincoln said it best with this famous quote “Those who deny Freedom to Others, Deserve it NOT for THEMSELVES” I know that by writing this that not a single so-called Christian will say “gee,I was wrong” or “hey,this makes sense and he might be right” I would beleive the return of space vampire mermaids from jupiter are taking over the solar system by making mind controlling hair bows for little girls…My point being that even Hitler Himself would rather commit suicide than admit his wrongdoings or admit even a slight mistake..I have heard of and know of Gay people who have committed suicide not for BEING GAY but for what so-called-christians did to them for being GAY! I have also read NUMEROUS stories among blacks in the south committing suicide for the same reasons NOT because they were Black BUT because of the way they were treated by being black…sort of a sort of a societal imposed self-loathing way of promoting the cause of the Fuhrer…oops I mean the “family focus folks” I really think these “sickos with too much time on their hands” should be “FOCUSING” on themselves …because “if you mind your own business,You’d be busy all the time”!